SECR P Class 0-6-0T in OO Gauge from Hattons

[phil-b259]

Which you rarely heard a Bulleid crew say! Most frustrating to prepare a West Country and then fail it on the steam reverser when you actually try moving it.

 

Roy

 

Indeed

 

This was one of the odd things about the Bulleid Pacifics - the shortcomings of the Eastleigh designed steam reverser were well known about at the time (as was the excellent reputation of the 'Chatham' one) As with some of the other 'big 4' railways it has been suggested that Eastleigh took advantage of Mr Bulleid's appointment (he being an 'outsider' as it were) to settle old scores and reassert their LSWR ancestry (remembering that Maunsell was an ex SECR man, as were quite a lot of his staff).

 

Had a Chatam reverser been selected it is suggested that the outcome of the BR exchange trials (Bulleid Pacifics gave excellent performances but were heavy on coal due to the driving style necessary to overcome the shortcomings of the reverser) could have been very different.

[phil-b259]

Long overdue and they would be very popular I'm sure. Small long lived engine, many preserved and lots of attractive liveries.

 

But also lots and lots of variations between individual locos (in terms of physical bits and bobs) to cater for - which will make for expensive tooling costs.

Edited October 11, 2017 by phil-b259

[Anglian]

I agree – £100 for a P Class is expensive for a small tank engine albeit a pretty one. The Terrier would presumably have to be about the same price if not more. It still could be a commercial success though. It must be one of the perennial sellers that I'm guessing hasn't been upgraded since first release.

[Tim Dubya]

I agree – £100 for a P Class is expensive for a small tank engine albeit a pretty one.

Not really, as if Hattons hadn't stuck their neck out and commissioned them we wouldn't have them. I certainly don't have the skills to build and finish a kit (if there is one) to the standards these will be turned out in.

 

I agree though, I that an updated Terrier wouldn't go amiss and as you say would keep on selling for sure.

 

When did the original model come out from Dapol?

Edited October 10, 2017 by Tim Dubya

[Kelly]

Not really, as if Hattons hadn't stuck their neck out and commissioned them we wouldn't have them. I certainly don't have the skills to build and finish a kit (if there is one) to the standards these will be turned out in.

 

I agree though that an updated Terrier wouldn't go amiss and as you say would keep on selling for sure.

 

There is a kit of the P available, from South Eastern Finecast. Nice little model. Don't think you'd be paying £99 for one when you factor wheels and motor into the costs.

 

A new Terrier would probably sell well I'd expect. Plenty of other small tanks that could be looked at too.

[Tim Dubya]

Plenty of other small tanks that could be looked at too.

G6 please.

[No Decorum]

Which you rarely heard a Bulleid crew say! Most frustrating to prepare a West Country and then fail it on the steam reverser when you actually try moving it.

 

Roy

Deleted. Fuller explanation above.

Edited October 10, 2017 by No Decorum

[Skinnylinny]

I agree – £100 for a P Class is expensive for a small tank engine albeit a pretty one. 

So it may feel, though the old ex-Dapol terrier (about the closest thing size-wise, and streets behind in detailing terms) can be got for an RRP of £109.99. Sorry, Mr Hornby, I know which I'd rather spend £100 on!

[JSpencer]

There is a kit of the P available, from South Eastern Finecast. Nice little model. Don't think you'd be paying £99 for one when you factor wheels and motor into the costs.

 

A new Terrier would probably sell well I'd expect. Plenty of other small tanks that could be looked at too.

There was one nicely built on ebay 3 years back for £140 in buy it now mode. The time it took for me to ask if the seller would post abroad (and he said yes too), it was gone. There has not been one since. People love to hold onto their P.

[Richard Lee]

From the sample pictures, it looks to me as if there is no daylight under the boiler.  My Hornby Terriers do have daylight underneath their boilers.  If Hattons or anyone else do decide to produce a new model Terrier in OO, it would be a good idea to ensure that there is daylight visible underneath the boiler, otherwise the new model will be compared unfavourably with the old Hornby ex-Dapol Terriers.

[JSpencer]

From the sample pictures, it looks to me as if there is no daylight under the boiler.  My Hornby Terriers do have daylight underneath their boilers.  If Hattons or anyone else do decide to produce a new model Terrier in OO, it would be a good idea to ensure that there is daylight visible underneath the boiler, otherwise the new model will be compared unfavourably with the old Hornby ex-Dapol Terriers.

 

There is daylight under the boiler, look at Pioneer II for example, you can see green from the side tank on the other side + a little bit of daylight (white background).

[BlackRat]

Expensive at £100.....?

 

How much these days to go to the cinema?

 

Paid nearly £100 recently for a curry for two with a few drinks.....so it's all relative isn't it?

 

Looked after, the P should still be pottering about on layouts long after we've gone to the great fiddle yard up yonder.

[Skinnylinny]

From the sample pictures, it looks to me as if there is no daylight under the boiler. 

Post 236 ( http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126142-secr-p-class-0-6-0t-in-oo-gauge/?p=2878143 ) has a nice low-down photo that shows there is definitely daylight under the boiler.

[Captain Kernow]

Paid nearly £100 recently for a curry for two with a few drinks.....so it's all relative isn't it?

 

So that's the new power source for the Langage incinerator.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Captain Kernow

[Edwardian]

So it may feel, though the old ex-Dapol terrier (about the closest thing size-wise, and streets behind in detailing terms) can be got for an RRP of £109.99. Sorry, Mr Hornby, I know which I'd rather spend £100 on!

 

Long, long, overdue for re-tooling, not least because the model is an unhappy A1/A1X hybrid.  I am sure someone will get round to it eventually.

 

I shall not be counting the rivets on my Ps; I shall be filing them off!

[Skinnylinny]

To be pedantic the P tanks don't have Westinghouse air pumps!

 

Like most SECR engines, what may look like an 'air pump' is in fact a steam powered reverser - and a very good one at that according to crews I believe.

That's interesting to know! I suppose for a shunting loco, anything that makes the constant fore-and-aft of a reverser easier would be very popular with a crew. Either way, another bit of metal on the engine that needs painting and lining out!

[Richard Lee]

Post 236 ( http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126142-secr-p-class-0-6-0t-in-oo-gauge/?p=2878143 ) has a nice low-down photo that shows there is definitely daylight under the boiler.

Sometimes I am happy to be shown that I am wrong.  Thank you.

[Anglian]

Expensive at £100.....?

 

How much these days to go to the cinema?

 

Paid nearly £100 recently for a curry for two with a few drinks.....so it's all relative isn't it?

 

Looked after, the P should still be pottering about on layouts long after we've gone to the great fiddle yard up yonder.

 

 

 

I'll hold my hands up to being a cheapskate sometimes. All things considered £100 is a realistic price. I think I was comparing it to the price of the Wainwright C Class and the E4 that were the last locomotives I bought Both were under £100. 

 

I ordered the SECR Birdcage coaches and could well understand the price of those, again because I viewed them in relation to the price of kit built examples.

[JSpencer]

So it may feel, though the old ex-Dapol terrier (about the closest thing size-wise, and streets behind in detailing terms) can be got for an RRP of £109.99. Sorry, Mr Hornby, I know which I'd rather spend £100 on!

 

In Dapol days, the RRP was £55, they sold for where I worked for £45. Looks cheap now but back then it was an expensive tank loco considering you could get a J72 and others for £25. This stopped me at the time from buying more than one.

Fast forwards to the early 2000s when Hornby took over the tools, they were at £35 a pop. My collection went from 1 to 6 retiring most E2s and all R1s on the layout. They remained the dominant shunter for the next 15 years. Even a pair of Well tanks could not replace them being lighter and somewhat delicate.

Another pair were added 2 years ago, SECR and KESR liveries but these lack the centre sprung axle and only because I liked those south east England based liveries. The SECR being a stop gap shunter in the new growing collection of SECR liveried locos, supplementing No3 Bodiam until something better could be found. The KESR being £35 in the Hornby club while SECR being £65.

 

Some shunting work was finally lost to the USA tanks, but too expensive to replace the fleet of terriers on a one for one basis and only a few actually worked in the south east. (there is also the B4 due soon too, but these will appear at the same time as the Ps - again only some worked in the south east).

 

I don't see how Hornby can justify £109 RRP for such an aging tank, it lacks all the modern details. Maybe tooling set up is complex for these old tools and new machines so agree time is ripe for a new one.

 

However for me, the P's are the perfect replacement being truly south eastern, and looking to be better runners too.

[davknigh]

I just have to give Hattons a big thumbs up for service. After seeing the livery samples I decided to change my order and sent an email off requesting said change. Within minutes I had a reply confirming the change and giving an ETA of January 2018 for my choice. Great service Hattons, well done.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Tim Dubya]

I got my Airfix (GMR maybe?) Prairie for £9:50 on sale in the Modellers Den in Bath (long gone now) when they first came out.

 

I still have it... and it still needs a decent chassis!

 

 

Edit: I lied, £8:20 and GMR.

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2017 by Tim Dubya

[spikey]

... Maybe tooling set up is complex for these old tools and new machines ...

 

(Dons ex-moulding shop foreman's hat to say) Shouldn't be.  As long as a mould tool isn't simply too big to go between the platens of a particular injection moulding machine, the adaptation of it to work properly in that machine is rarely any big deal as these things go.  Then once the tool's in and set up, getting decent shots off it should actually be easier on a modern machine. 

[Ian J.]

It would be nice to see a good quality, high detail Terrier get made, but I doubt Hattons would do it though I don't know why I think that.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Ian J.

[JSpencer]

In the 90s Bluebell run in darker blue and white lining instead of red where blue meets black.

 

She looks better at the moment though

 

https://locoyard.com/2013/06/06/1994-bluebell-railway-scans/

[adb968008]

I think the thing that stops a new terrier being made, is the market is so definitely diluted with older terriers.

 

This model has been done done done and twice baked, pan-fried and done again.

 

There are 110 terriers in ebay tonight, 131 sold in the last 60 days, with the average price being around £50.

(Compared to 60 J94’s including the DJ one new, 86 sold... the markets nearly half the size and that’s with 3 versions out there).

 

Their success is the collectibility of them, one could have 30+ different numbers and liveries, and paid approx £1000 for the fun of it, spread over 25 years, even if two years ago Whitechapel and Sutton were £35, the last two have tripled that price and I suspect that will be the end of them.

 

Any new terrier, will be £100+

 

If you’ve bought the last 30, are you going to dump the lot and buy 10 new ones (as the common theme of new commissions is 10 variations at once), or buy 1 or 2 of the new ones, or just say enough’s enough and stick with a nice collection of old terriers ?

 

Either way ebay will put 101 dalmations to shame with all these terriers swamping the market, collectors with gaps will fill their ranks and further risk the success of the new one.

 

If anyone other than a Hornby made it, they could find Hornby rediscovers their ability to make them for £35 again, just like the 14xx.

 

What I think would happen is many collectors will cash out, and just buy 1 or 2, it’s success wouldn’t be repeated.

 

The safer route is a new prototype, and right now industrials are in vogue..., needs to be preserved and weirder the better...

 

Haydock Founderies Bellerophon (and it’s 5 sisters) would be my obscure vote.. especially as two of them doubleheaded used to work passenger services over the L&Y :-), this ones been all over the country and had 3 liveries just in preservation.

 

But a more sensible one would be an Avonside 0-6-0t , Manning Wardle 0-6-0T, Hudswell Clarke (MSC canal tank) or an RSH 0-4-0ST, given their prevalence in preservation.

 

But could the Andrew Barclay chassis be used for an Andrew Barclay Crane Tank...3 Preserved in the UK, maybe others overseas, quite a number of prototypes.. now that would be different ?

 

http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/images/10012/10012_1.jpg

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v54/p2138763583-3.jpg

Edited October 11, 2017 by adb968008