Coal and how to represent it

[Compound2632]

Old king coal was the staple traffic for the railways in many, if not all, parts of the country in the days of the traditional railway. At least half of our private owner wagons should be full of it, along with a good proportion of company wagons, and an equivalent number should be running empty showing evidence of having carried it.

 

I find that, looking at photographs, the further back one goes, the greater variety of sizes of coal one sees - from great slabs several feet long to lumps maybe an inch or two in size. I'm sure that the appearance of the coal load depends in some not-well-documented way on the coalfield, the colliery, or even the particular seam, as well as the customer's requirements.

 

So, how do folk go about representing loaded coal wagons? What are the merits of real coal? How do you fix real coal loads in place? Do folk find demountable loads practical? What questions haven't I thought of?

 

Apologies if there's a previous thread on this topic - if so, I've not found it.

[Rowsley17D]

Nothing looks like coal other than coal. It can be washed to cut down dust. Grade using cheap kitchen sieves, don't use SWMBO's. It can be fixed using PVA or acrylic carpet glue. To create a wagon load, I line a wagon with cling film put a cut-to-size piece of black-grey foam into the wagon and cover with glue, then the coal pieces. I then add coal dust to infill any gaps. Leave to set over night. Remove load with cling film. You can glue/tape a bit of steel strip to the underside of the load and unload your wagons with a magnet.

[Northroader]

Agree, it crushes down and the smaller pieces look just right, one of the few materials you can scale down. Keep your eyes open around preserved Railways and you might find the odd piece left spilled, otherwise old sites like canal wharfs or old collieries. Chaz of this parish has just detailed his method here (post 4599)http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58132-dock-green/page-184. I do it with cutting a piece of wood to fit inside the wagon, trim to form a hump, then wrap some tape round to prevent spillage. This is all painted Matt black, then crushed coal spread over the top. This is treated the same as ballast, with an eye dropper spreading diluted PVA glue with some washing up liquid. Once this is set hard the edge of the tape is trimmed to the coal and repainted black. Then just dropped in the wagon. I'm idle, and leave it in, so I don't worry about slick exrtraction "loads in / empties out" sort of job.

[Tony Teague]

I agree with the methods given so far, but I am fortunate in having an old fashioned coal merchant nearby, so I just go down and ask him if I can fill a large tub with coal dust - yes he thinks I am crazy, but its free and a tub full of small bits lasts forever.

I am more lazy than Northroader - I have an up coal empties train and a down loaded coal train, so my coal loads are permanently stuck into the wagons.

Tony

[The Johnster]

Another lazybones here (as any of my old bosses will readily confirm); train of loaded and train of empties, excuse for twice the number of mineral wagons.

 

Another material that scales down very nicely is wood, and it would be quite feasible to model an early period loaded coal wagon entirely in the correct materials, just to say you had!

[Compound2632]

Another material that scales down very nicely is wood, and it would be quite feasible to model an early period loaded coal wagon entirely in the correct materials, just to say you had!

 

I'm not sure how well the lubricating properties of grease in the axleboxes would scale.

[Compound2632]

The coal loads in this D299 fest illustrate the variety of coal sizes - mixed sizes up to about 3"-4" in the nearest few wagons; rather finer in the further wagons and large lumps in the wagons in the next line to the left.

[JZ]

Grade coal using cheap sieves and tea strainers from £1 shops. I use a cheap pestle and mortar to crush it.

[The Johnster]

I'm not sure how well the lubricating properties of grease in the axleboxes would scale.

 

 

 

I said you could model it, not that it would work!

[Guest Midland Mole]

Whenever we need some coal for loads or tenders at the shop, we just pop up to the SVR and they usually oblige us with a lump.

Alex

[TheSignalEngineer]

I use crushed and graded coal, or smokeless fuel for coke.

 

Here is a link to some I made earlier.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/2092/entry-19546-quick-mineral-loads/

Edited September 16, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer

[Compound2632]

Many thanks to all. Good to know that PVA works.

[Quarryscapes]

If using real cola you need to make sure you get all the dust out, as when glued down it looks really stupid to have the small dust particles clump over the big lumps. (sprinkling onto PVA rather than trying to pva soak it like ballast afterwards works better and helps avoid this) Also, matt varnish it - a big pile of coal does not shine like metallic paint! I prefer to use larger ballast painted black for small coal, looks far more realistic than coal crushed to the same size, again due to the clumping of real coal.  

 

This stuff is good too, provided you pick out the round bits. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MODEL-COAL-2-3mm-approx-grain-size-FOR-O-GAUGE-MODEL-RAILWAYS-OTHER-HOBBIES/152470629469?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[Ross34]

I've used a product in the past called florists black sand..

 

http://www.easyfloristsupplies.co.uk/vase-fillers/coloured-sand/c21.html

 

Its surprising how much useful stuff you can find from florists suppliers - well, for scenery at least.

[Quarryscapes]

I've used a product in the past called florists black sand..

 

http://www.easyfloristsupplies.co.uk/vase-fillers/coloured-sand/c21.html

 

Its surprising how much useful stuff you can find from florists suppliers - well, for scenery at least.

 

That looks spot on - what's the grain size like?

[AyJay]

Another point that nobody has mentioned, so apologies if this is obvious.....

Coal would be graded at the colliery before loading onto waggons, so you will have various grades (sizes) of coal lumps being carried, but not in one waggon, so don't mix the big lumps with the fine grains.

[Compound2632]

Another point that nobody has mentioned, so apologies if this is obvious.....

Coal would be graded at the colliery before loading onto waggons, so you will have various grades (sizes) of coal lumps being carried, but not in one waggon, so don't mix the big lumps with the fine grains.

 

Quite so - see for example the photo I linked to in post #7.

 

My impression is that mechanical grading came quite late - later in some areas/collieries than others. At Beamish Museum a few weeks ago, had a very informative guide at their reconstructed pit-head - a retired miner. I came away with the impression that at small pits like the one Beamish represents, grading and also removing stone was done by hand to the end - a job for those either too young or too old to go underground. Without wishing to romanticise the coal mining industry in the least, it seems the collieries made an effort to keep men employed throughout their working lives, rather than simply discarding them. 

[John_Miles]

Quite so - see for example the photo I linked to in post #7.

 

My impression is that mechanical grading came quite late - later in some areas/collieries than others. At Beamish Museum a few weeks ago, had a very informative guide at their reconstructed pit-head - a retired miner. I came away with the impression that at small pits like the one Beamish represents, grading and also removing stone was done by hand to the end - a job for those either too young or too old to go underground. Without wishing to romanticise the coal mining industry in the least, it seems the collieries made an effort to keep men employed throughout their working lives, rather than simply discarding them. 

 

Anthracite was sold in specific sizes, it was part of the marketing so there were peas, beans, nuts and culm for example Have a look at the Anthracite wagons in the relevant Keith Turton book - I think it s Volume 4.

[Ross34]

That looks spot on - what's the grain size like?

 

I think its roughly about the same size as 4mm "fine" ballast  - which I have also used it for.

 

Hope that helps

[br2975]

Some (U.S.) sizes:-

.

https://sizes.com/materials/coal_bituminous.htm
https://sizes.com/materials/anthracite.htm

.

Brian R

Edited September 19, 2017 by br2975

[Compound2632]

Anthracite was sold in specific sizes, it was part of the marketing so there were peas, beans, nuts and culm for example Have a look at the Anthracite wagons in the relevant Keith Turton book - I think it s Volume 4.

 

Ah, yes, I keep thinking of the Turton books as beyond my model railway budget when viewed in the mass but I suppose really each individual one is around the price of 2 - 3 wagons. If I could be sure of finding 5 - 6 wagons relevant to my interests in any given volume I'd take the plunge! I know there's an index but it gives no indication of date...

 

Some sizes:-

.

https://sizes.com/materials/coal_bituminous.htm

https://sizes.com/materials/anthracite.htm

.

Brian R

 

Is the terminology the same on both sides of the Atlantic? One sees photos of coal merchants' premises with adverts for things like (from memory) "best household coals, nuts and cobbles"...

 

There's a whole lost language of coal out there...

Edited September 18, 2017 by Compound2632

[Northmoor]

I'm not sure how well the lubricating properties of grease in the axleboxes would scale.

 

Actually it would work just the same.  The lubricating film in a white metal bearing is only a few micron thick anyway; the film thickness varies more with speed and temperature than load.  

[DCB]

I have coal fired central heating using Antracite garins so when I need coal I take a few grains and my trusty sledge hammer and smash a few grains to bits before running the bits through a sieve.  Antracite dust is quite coarse so its not too dirty, and the lumps have a nice shine and don't crumble to dust quickly so I UHU it to cardboard to make wagon loads and tender loads grading the lumps, breaking the big ones to a reasonable size and grading them so each wagon load has a consistent size of lump.

The broken coal I store in sealed plastic containers which originally contained a Chinese take away, one for large and one for small.
Half filled tenders look best to me, Tender drive tenders with huge humps of coal are not my scene.

[JDW]

If using real cola you need to make sure you get all the dust out, as when glued down it looks really stupid to have the small dust particles clump over the big lumps. (sprinkling onto PVA rather than trying to pva soak it like ballast afterwards works better and helps avoid this) Also, matt varnish it - a big pile of coal does not shine like metallic paint! I prefer to use larger ballast painted black for small coal, looks far more realistic than coal crushed to the same size, again due to the clumping of real coal.  

 

Do you load that in coke wagons?  

[chrisf]

A good substitute is aquarium filter carbon.  I could not tell you where my packet of the stuff is but I bought it in my teens from a pet shop.

 

Chris