DJLC - Middleton Top

[Mim]

I'm one of the 2mm Scale Association members that the DJLC was aimed at. Been a member for a couple of years. Done a bit of dabbling, but not really produced anything much. Hopefully the small area and the time deadline will push me to actually complete something. Skill levels are going to be right at the bottom level of the range of entries, but I don't care. Publishing what I am doing as I go may even keep me on track.

Since cycling the route years ago I became interested in the Cromford and High Peak Railway. It was very unusual. Trains were short and the sites were often compact. Combine that with the distinctive and beautiful Peak District countryside makes it popular for modelling.

I looked at a number of sites against the allowed size. I've picked Middleton top, from the end of the run round loop to the start of the incline. This has two points and three major buildings, two of which still exist. The engine shed was a wood and corrugated iron structure, very narrow and increasingly bare as the howling hilltop wind steadily removed the cladding. This has now gone, but plenty of photos exist. The winding house has been fully restored and the engines are run regularly. The engineman's house next door has been modernised, but the basic structure is there. A rough outline plan, based on a National Library of Scotland map is shown below. The latest version moves the whole thing up and across a bit to exit the tracks on the left hand side, rather than the front.

 

There are two off-scene areas. To the left will represent the run round loop and the line towards Parsley Hay. To the right will represent the Middleton incline heading in the Cromford direction. The left hand exit will hopefully be partly hidden by a fascia framing the model. The right hand exit will be behind the engine house. The right hand area will be short, just a couple of wagons long to exchange empty and full loads. Not sure what the left hand one will be. May be a traverser, cassettes, train turntable, or a shortened representation of the loop. Plenty of time to decide. There should be a surprising amount of operation for such a small area. Wagons going up and down the incline and being shunted at the top, with arriving and departing trains and even the occasional enthusiasts charter with lots of brake vans and people in open wagons. Very pre-Health-n-Safety! Longer term, the DJLC version could be incorporated in to a larger layout with the run round loop and part of the incline modelled.

Period to be modelled is probably late fifties, early sixties, before the incline was closed. The site changed only a little over the years, so earlier stock could be run and not look too anachronistic. In later years J94 Austerities were used and one should be relatively easy to make using the association chassis kit (I hope!). Other possible locos were ex North London railway with outside cylinders (eek!) and ex LNWR Chopper 0-4-2 tanks.

I'll need to build plenty of wagons and some brake vans. LMS 16 and 20 ton ones are in photos and there are association kits. A distinctive, possibly unique feature are several converted old locomotive tenders, used to supply water to various sites on the summit that would be hauled up the inclines full and returned empty. Much of the Peak is on limestone and water heads underground to the cave systems, so getting a reliable water supply is difficult in many places.

I have visited the site and taken plenty of photos, along with measurements of the existing buildings. There are lots of photos available from various eras when the line was running and the ones in the link should give you an idea of the kind of atmosphere I am trying to recreate.

The first bit of actual modelling is the engine shed. The wooden framework has been set out in OpenSCad and the design sent for 3D printing. Wasn't convinced I could make it in microstrip, especially the curved framing around the north wall windows.

Wish me luck!

Mim



 

[nick_bastable]

interesting idea good luck

 

Nick

[Argos]

Hi Mim,

 

I've long been fascinated by the Cromford and High Peak and have several plans kicking around at the back of my mind, none likely to come to fruition though.

 

I like the sound of what you are planning.

 

Incidentally the Chopper tanks were 2-4-0t (presume this is typo?) unless you mean the LNWR 0-4-2 Bissel tanks? These were all gone by the 50's and (I think) only worked Cromford Wharf.

 

There is a Chassis kit from Nbrass for a LNWR 2-4-2t along with brakes etc. that could be adapted for the Chopper tank.

I fact I've got one in my kit pile for that very purpose.

It might help with the build.

[Mim]

Hi Mim,

 

I've long been fascinated by the Cromford and High Peak and have several plans kicking around at the back of my mind, none likely to come to fruition though.

 

I like the sound of what you are planning.

 

Incidentally the Chopper tanks were 2-4-0t (presume this is typo?) unless you mean the LNWR 0-4-2 Bissel tanks? These were all gone by the 50's and (I think) only worked Cromford Wharf.

 

There is a Chassis kit from Nbrass for a LNWR 2-4-2t along with brakes etc. that could be adapted for the Chopper tank.

I fact I've got one in my kit pile for that very purpose.

It might help with the build.

Yes, 2-4-0 for a Chopper tank. My typo! Thanks for the pointer to the NBrass chassis kit. Will take a look, but definitely a longer term plan. There is evidence that they were used on the section between the Middleton and the top of the Cromford incline too and an early photo of 2-4-0's that look like Choppers on the site of Middleton Top shed when it had burnt down before the final shed was built, so I reckon I can get away with one.

 

Mim

[Branwell]

The Coal Tank etches I had done might be a help with the Chopper Tank as well - still got a few left if you're interested.

 

I like your choice for the Challenge by the way - a location I'd been thinking about as a possibiity before I plumped for somewhere else (which will remain a mystery just for the moment).

 

Good luck!

[Mim]

The Coal Tank etches I had done might be a help with the Chopper Tank as well - still got a few left if you're interested.

 

I like your choice for the Challenge by the way - a location I'd been thinking about as a possibiity before I plumped for somewhere else (which will remain a mystery just for the moment).

 

Good luck!

Message sent regarding coal tank etches. That and the NBrass bits could become the basis of a Chopper.

One of the reasons I started this topic was to stake my claim to this location! Good luck with your mystery, for now, build.

 

Mim

[Argos]

Hi Mim,

 

The Chopper tanks definitely worked the top section (lots of photos available), it was the Bissel tanks I was referring to as only working Cromford Wharf.

 

Happy to find out if I'm wrong though!

[Mim]

Progress in the virtual realm of ones and zeros. I am steadily putting together the trackwork in Templot. I have rotated the 600 x 240mm area with respect to the track plan compared with the sketch in the initial post. This will hopefully draw the eye away from the track exiting off scene at each end and in to the scenic area. Top is the rear of the model, bottom is where it is viewed from. The ground rises from front to back, with most of the track level. The rear siding drops slightly away from the down line. Up and Down lines are literal here. The incline would drop away at 1:8 to the right of the winding house. Here is a screen shot as it currently stands. My templot skills are very basic, but the crossover has been done on a transition from the curved to the straight of the run round loop, which seems to replicate photos quite well.

 

 

The area of the underlying old OS map is the scenic bit. Will probably be moved up about half an inch to bring the winding house right to the front of the board and allow space for the fence behind the rear siding. I've decided to include the crossover, though over half of it will be off scene. Leaving this out would make operation of the fiddle yard, in whatever form it takes, too artificial when trying to simulate realistic movements.

 

Doing this has given me an appreciation for just how compact the site was. Scaling from photos shows that space between the engine shed road and the up line is only six foot at their closest, in to which the shed wall has to fit. On the south side the corner of the engineman's house actually intrudes through the wall of the shed. The corner of the stonework is shaved off to clear the locos. You can still see this on the house today. The minimum radius is going to the shed, 14", on a B8 turnout This is still greater than the famous Gotham curve on the line, which scales out to about 13" in 2mm, so the short wheelbase locos and stock should still negotiate it. One idea I had for the DJLC was to model the whole of Gotham curve, which fits nicely in the area and has a continuous check rail. Unfortunately there is no turnout, so it wouldn't have been eligable.

 

Mim

Edited September 20, 2017 by Mim

[Echo]

I have walked the line a few times now. It must have been very atmospheric in the good old days, before global warming

 

Looking forward to seeing this one progress 

[Caley Jim]

Progress in the virtual realm of ones and zeros. I am steadily putting together the trackwork in Templot. I have rotated the 600 x 240mm area with respect to the track plan compared with the sketch in the initial post. This will hopefully draw the eye away from the track exiting off scene at each end and in to the scenic area. 

Rotating the track plan as you have done was the first thought which occurred to me when i saw your first post.  I agree it will make it visually more attractive and help hide the exits.

 

Jim

[Mim]

Progress in the virtual realm of ones and zeros. Progress in the physical realm of wood and glue. Middleton Top now has a baseboard. Constructed in 3mm ply, double and sometimes triple thickness up for the sides and trackbed. The front will be profiled to follow the ground level, once I've decided where the ground will be. Hopefully plenty of room for wiring and turnout operation underneath where the track goes. There is a 3mm wide slot so a removable backscene can be fitted, with curves to prevent corners in the sky. There are also slots to eventually take a removable proscenium arch with layout name and lighting. There is a slot there to take the engine shed and its inspection pit. The shed is going to be a very delicate structure, best added once the majority of the heavy work is done.

 

Here it is, carved by an unskilled artisan (me) from the living plywood.

 

The right hand fiddle yard, representing the incline is five inches long and has some edging strips round two sides to prevent wagons taking a plummet. To the left of the layout there is a eight inch area for the other half of a crossover. The end of the baseboard here is shaped so that the fiddle yard meets it perpendicular to the tracks. The fiddle yard hasn't been built yet, but is probably going to be a four track traverser, with a couple of roads at the other end long enough to take an engine and brake van. The only part of the traverser board that has been made so far is the end panel, where the holes for the pattern makers alignment dowels were cut along with the end board of the layout. I have a couple of linear slides on order for the traverser of the sort that are used in home made 3D printers. Only £13 from Hong Kong, so not a huge loss if they turn out not to be suitable.

 

Mim

Edited October 1, 2017 by Mim

[nick_bastable]

nice progress I like the slot idea for the back scene although I have found the bendy mdf the most suitable material for this and this is thicker than 3mm

 

Nick

[Mim]

nice progress I like the slot idea for the back scene although I have found the bendy mdf the most suitable material for this and this is thicker than 3mm

 

Nick

Hi Nick,

Not sure what I am going to use yet. I have ideas around a thermoplastic sheet I can heat and bend around a suitable former at the corners, but this is going to need some experimentation. I've done this successfully with polycarbonate and a hot air paint stripper, but on a much smaller area. Didn't think of  mdf. Could use it if the plastic idea fails if I thin it down where it slots in to the baseboard.

 

What the backscene is going to be is another matter. On the prototype there is a long distance view over Derwent valley on the right, a hill with a couple of dry stone walls behind and a quarry, waste tip and a couple of corrugated tin buildings to the left. The quarry and waste tip are now covered in greenery and the tin sheds are gone. Painting would test my skills beyond their limits. A possibility is a grey mist. A typical Peak District day with the hills in cloud. 

 

It has been pointed out to me that the layout would be better viewed from the north side, rather than the south. Viewing it from the side I have means that a lot of the most interesting features are going to be hidden behind buildings. I agree and if the layout were ever incorporated in to a larger version then the viewing direction would be swapped. With the DJLC size limitation I'll stick with this way round.

 

Mim

[nick_bastable]

sorry this is the stuff I was thinking of http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/47353-bendy-mdf/  I used it on the home extremely stalled layout

 

Nick

[Mim]

Now with paper rails and sleepers. Even easier than Easitrack

I had a bad attack of brain fade and made the baseboard the wrong shape at the left hand end. I got it in to my head that the rails exited to the fiddle yard board in a different position, despite the Templot plan clearly showing that it did not! Didn't spot it till I came to glue down the track templates. The baseboard has now been modified as you can see in the picture below. I have also taken the opportunity to add a cutout that will accommodate turnout switches. How the turnouts will be operated is still open to question. Am undecided between wire in tube, operated from slide switches, servos and an arduino to drive them or, as an outsider, memory wire.

 

The linear slides for the fiddle yard traverser have arrived. These are the sorts of things that are used in home made 3D printers and were remarkably cheap. They look like they will be suitable and so fiddle yard construction will commence soon. This will be bigger than Middleton Top really needs, but hopefully can be reused for other layouts later.

I have had a lot of help from RMWeb member middlepeak. He has dug out photos from view points that I was missing and also explained how the track gradients at the top and bottom of each incline were arranged to ease the work of the folks taking off and putting wagons on the incline cable. They helped make moving wagons around easier with gravity, wagon brakes and pinch bars and minimised the use of locomotives.

These gradients are very obvious in photographs. The down line grades are in the visible scene, so have been incorporated. An extra layer of 0.8mm thick plywood was added as a trackbed. The down line rises at around 1:30 after exiting the last turnout, then falls at around 1:100 to the fiddle yard at the right of the layout, representing the incline. I have left an option to have the up line fiddle yard on an incline to gravity transfer arriving wagons in to the scenic area. You can see the hump in the down line in the badly over exposed photo below.

 

I now have to start covering the pristine templates with sleepers and rail.    Eeek! Not built a 2mmfs point before and am reading everything I have on the subject . I have remembered to drill holes for uncoupling magnets.

There are various other things going on in the background, with more research and drawings and parts acquired. The winding house is being drawn up on the laptop, based on some plans that middlepeak provided. I've put together images of stone and brickwork taken from my pictures of the winding house to make my own brick and stone paper, similar to the images that ScaleScenes supply. These are coming out well in test prints and may be used on the model.

Mim 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Mim

[Mim]

I've started building the fiddle yard. This is going to be a traverser as, in addition to holding trains, it also has to represent the rest of the run round loop that is too long to fit in the 600 x 240mm Challenge area. It needs to be able to run round trains and move the brake van. All the photos I have seen of the C&HPR have the engines with the firebox at the east end. This is due to the very steep inclines. Trains from Middleton Top have to climb Hopton incline, which was 1:14 at its steepest. I have seen a photo of a loco being hauled up Cromford bank in steam, with a crew on board so it can provide some power to assist the winding engine. Going up an incline firebox up risks exposing the firebox crown, so they all seem to be sent on to the line facing with the firebox down the steep inclines. This precludes turntables, cassettes, or fiddle sticks for turning trains on the model. The need for a bit of track long enough to take a loco and brake van at the other end means that a sector plate isn't going to be so easy either, so traverser it is. 

 

The linear slides were each mounted on to some aluminium L section. The bolt holes were drilled with the sections clamped back to back to ensure they would be parallel. These were mounted in a plywood box with large holes in the ply to provide plenty of adjustment for height, tilt and parallelism and bolts with penny washers used to clamp the L sections in place. I seem to have got a bit carried away with the 50mm hole saw on the framework. The deck of the traverser is two thicknesses of 3mm ply, bolted together. The screws on to the linear slides are in the bottom section, then the top section bolts to that. This is so there is no risk of the bolts getting in the way of the track. Seems to slide nice and parallel so far. Repeatability of alignment at both ends hasn't been tested yet and will be key to its success. The 0.8mm track beds at each end haven't been added yet, and the traverser top bed isn't screwed down in the picture, which is why they don't align vertically. Overall size is 2'x1' with an 18" traverser. The bed will take four tracks. The slide rods need cutting to length. A hacksaw won't even make a mark, so they are going to need a cutting disk in an angry grinder to get through.

 

 

After aligning the end panel with the main baseboard end panel when drilling the alignment dowel positions I then messed up by glueing the traverser end panel in upside down. I still managed to do this after writing on the piece of ply which way up it was supposed to go . This has messed up the alignment to the main board and I suspect the easiest solution will be to drill new alignment dowel depressions. Fortunately there is space to do this.

 

I have got a bit carried away and have decided to try automating the traverser. I have a stepper motor actuated rack and pinion drive on order, £26 or so from a well known auction web site and have been playing around with Arduino sketches. There is an improved stepper motor library you can add called AccelStepper, which allows acceleration and deceleration to be programmed, minimising the risk of stock being disturbed. Not sure if I can get all this to work, but the aim is to have five push buttons and get a single button push to send the traverser to any track position. I'll always be approaching the programmed position from the same direction to remove backlash effects.

 

Not a lot of progress on the main baseboard. I am probably going to scrap the first go at a turnout and start again. A neighbour was throwing out some offcuts of Celotex, so I now have all the extruded foam I need for the scenery. 

 

Mim

[BG John]

I'm interested in how the traverser works out, as I have similar plans in 7mm scale.

[Mim]

I'm interested in how the traverser works out, as I have similar plans in 7mm scale.

Tolerances will be more forgiving in 7mm, unless it is S7 of course. In 2mm we are probably talking about better than +/-200micron each end of the 450mm table to have a hope of stock getting on and off without derailing. Repeatable again and again. This is with chamfering of the rails to help things along and is a big ask for plywood and cheapo ebay components. I suspect I'll probably have to use tapered locking pins at each end to fine align each position. Possible to motorise these too. Will try with just stepper motor drive first though.

 

The linear slides are these. You can get versions with four short slides, two on each rail, which would be better I suspect for a wider 7mm traverser. For motorising I was initially thinking of a leadscrew with  a stepper motor on the end and the nut attached to the table. Instead I am going to try this. The rack will be fixed and the pinion and stepper motor assembly attached to the table. No idea on quality, or if it will work yet. The popularity of home made 3D printers and other CNC machines has made this sort of stuff crazy cheap. For industrial equipment we always used to reckon that each extra axis of motion added £10,000 to the cost, so although the precision and reliability is of a different order it is amazing how easy and low cost hobby stuff is now.

 

Mim

Edited October 16, 2017 by Mim

[BG John]

Those slides look interesting. I've got some 8mm shafts and linear bearings, but they look much easier. I've got a leadscrew, but without a stepper motor as I didn't know what size to get. I thought I might try to work out the torque required if/when I build the traverser. I'd seen the rack and pinions before, but am too tight to buy one to try!

 

I think my main problem will be moving the weight, rather than accurate alignment. Several locos at up to a kilo each, plus rolling stock, is quite a lot.

[Mim]

We have different problems. Yours is trying to move heavy stock. Mine is that any bump will scatter 2mm wagons all over the place, so I'm more worried about smoothness of travel and precise location than power. I've just put it on the kitchen scales and my entire fiddle yard currently weights 2.6Kg!

[Mim]

I seem to have been sidetracked in to building a fiddle yard, rather than the layout. Slow progress, mostly waiting for parts to arrive. Lots of wires and mechanical gubbins are steadily being fitted. Hopefully will have it moving soon. Will get back to working on the layout board itself and some modelling, rather than robotics.

 

The microswitches will be end limits to prevent the table over running and damaging itself. One will also act as a home setting when powering up. They will be actuated by the heads of the two bolts you can see on the end of the table. In this picture the stepper motor is out of the rack while I work out how to get it to run, rather than just buzz. All to do with the phase order and causing me some brain strain.

 

Mim

 

[nick_bastable]

i think it depends on the H bridge used the one have is a cheapie of that auction site and worked out of the box, Martin Allen from the area group has never managed to get his working !

 

Nick 

[Mim]

That is the conclusion I've come to. I have a second type of driver board on order. It comes with another of these steppers plugged in and was designed around it, so I am hoping to have more luck.

 

Mim

 

i think it depends on the H bridge used the one have is a cheapie of that auction site and worked out of the box, Martin Allen from the area group has never managed to get his working !

 

Nick 

[BG John]

I think that a ULN2003 driver board is most commonly used with those stepper motors. They're cheaper than an H-bridge driver too!

Edited November 3, 2017 by BG John

[Mim]

I think that a ULN2003 driver board is most commonly used with those stepper motors. They're cheaper than an H-bridge driver too!

 

That's the sort I've got on order. Plenty on-line about using them, so fingers crossed.