Modelling river water

[AyJay]

I have looked at a few youtube clips on creating a river/water, and these new 'artificial water' products are being pushed heavily. But not much said about using varnish.

For the river that I want to lay, I already have a 2cm deep channel with a bed of sand scattered & glued onto a brown painted base. I have a tin of clear yacht varnish ready for use and am planning to build up a river with as many applications as necessary to give me some depth, with streaks of green or brown paint added. The river is to be slow moving i.e. no 'white-water'. Would my plan give a reasonably convincing river, or should I just forget about varnish and go for the more expensive alternative?

[kandc_au]

There is a thread on this board by Chris Nevard on a layout he did using that method.
Hopefully someone will remember the name it as my brain is hopeless!

 

Khris

[JeffP]

The problem with varnish is that it shrinks when it dries, and a too-thick application leaves an unrealistic dip in the surface, usually at the edges where it's most noticeable.

 

With a 20mm depth, how long is it going to take you at 0.5mm a go?

[Mark Saunders]

Years ago there was a layout using varnish for deep water but it was laid in one go and all it did was do the same as in the tin form a skin with the rest remaining liquid.

 

Mark Saunders

[28XX]

What about using polyester resin, this sets by chemical reaction, not evaporation of solvent. Still do it in layers, I think I recall it might heat up in bulk.

[AyJay]

In the Spring edition of the BRM TV dvd, the subject of water was covered. Essentially, it was this new product laid thinly over an area painted dark in the middle. My thought was that this would not give any impression of depth.   Looking at the river, I cannot see very far into its depths, so I guess I only need a layer few mm's thick.  No, I am not planning to completely fill the 2cm channel, this can be a reed-filled bank.  Good point about varnish shrinking though; how severe is it?

[Tony Davis]

There is a thread on this board by Chris Nevard on a layout he did using that method.

Hopefully someone will remember the name it as my brain is hopeless!

 

Khris

Is this the article? I notice Chris credits Allan Downes with the discovery

 

http://nevardmedia.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/pva-water-allan-downes-way.html

 

Tony

[wenlock]

Hi Ayjay,

 

I've used varnish in the past and as others have said it curls up at the edges and didn't look very convincing I'm afraid. On my latest project I used a product called from "hobby craft" used for making paper weights which gave me much better results!:-) Here's a link to my blog which outlines how I used it

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1131/entry-18379-aquatic-antics/

 

Good luck with your river, I hope it works out well and we'll be seeing pictures of the end result very soon!

Edited September 18, 2017 by wenlock

[HLT 0109]

I have a river on my layout that was coloured with acrylic paints and then sealed with several coats of gloss varnish - see attached photo taken soon after it was done.  It was done about six years ago and there is no sign of cracking or curling.  Clearly, how it looks depends to some extent on where the model is viewed from.  The board on which the river bed sits, is removable from below for access to the distant track - the scenery is first removed from the top - hence I was able to sit the scenery over the edge of the "water".  Since the picture was taken, I have addeed two fishermen - one sitting on a seat on the bank, the other with his legs cut off, standing "in" the water fly fishing.

 

Harold.

[Kris]

I've been doing something similar myself recently, creating a tidal creek. I have gone for a depth of about 8mm. I have used the woodland scenics realistic water product, with added colourant. I have been pleased with the product, but it does take longer to set than the 24 hours suggested. I touched the surface about 36 hours later, it looked like it had set but it hadn't. This left a mark that I have been able to partly disguise, but it will need another coat over the top. If you take a look at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75479-coombe-viaduct-saltash/?p=2841478 it shows a few pictures after 2 pours. Since then I have done 2 more pours. 

[Chrisr40]

There's a really good river modelled in Model Rail this month. If I recall correctly the chap laid the river out with ballast first then a layer of one of the water simulating goo products, let that set and then put another layer over that. It's October's edition page 45.

 

Chris

[katwigan]

Hi AyJay

I used Woodland Scenics Deep Pour Water -" MURKY" in a water tower that I have just done, If you are looking at practically 'still ' water as in almost 'canal' like then I found the ease of use and the end result to be quite good.

 

 

there are some other photos of it on my Wigan Wallgate layout thread

 

As with virtually any method of using liquid a meniscus will form around the edges but in a river that couple of mil would be covered by overhanging grass etc anyway.

Kev

 

 

 

[kandc_au]

Is this the article? I notice Chris credits Allan Downes with the discovery

 

http://nevardmedia.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/pva-water-allan-downes-way.html

 

Tony

Yes and No.

It wasn't a blog but a build on here.

The last image was the scene I was thinking of. He showed how it was done etc.

 

Khris

[john flann]

 

The River Brede

 

 

As seen at Port Bredy (see my Hintock thread.)

[AyJay]

Well I'm visiting my 'local' model shop tomorrow and have a shopping list for all sorts of bits.

At the moment, I have a river bed of sand on a brown base and intend to purchase the Woodland Scenics muddy 'water' for pouring over it.

Looking at videos of this, I see that the river banks are all landscaped before pouring.   Any suggestions for reeds and long grass? Plus things like ducks, swans, fishermen, boats, old prams, etc? 

As I drive home past my bit of the Thames as it meanders through Oxfordshire, I note that the colour is more a deep green and not a brown at all. This is the sort of colour, surface that I would like, so should I add any other colours before/during my pour?

 

As a side issue, last night I fitted in place the viaduct that I made. It carries the track over said river and is made out of plasticard sheeting, covered in Slaters embossed sheets and painted in acrylic paints.  I think that I did a good job of it.    (there will be photographs presently)

I have read separately that acrylic paint is easily damaged and I see that Humbrol produces a varnish for acrylics.  Has anyone with experience here any words of wisdom for brushing varnish onto acrylic paints?

[john flann]

AyJay, the colour of water is a subjective matter, and it depends on many factors.

 

Not least, is it flowing fast or slow, tidal or not and the kind of day, bright or dull for instance. At Port Bredy it's always a bright sunny day, the river is tidal and it flows quite fast. That's what I have tried to represent.

 

Below are two images of early stages of the development of Port Bredy.  You will find more images showing what it has become by looking through my Hintock thread.