Hornby or Peco set track

[GWR1835]

Hello,

 

I have decided to rebuild my layout which was laid with Fleischmann Profi Track.  As much as I like the track I find certain loco's don't derail on the points and coupled with the cost and availabilty of the Fleischmann system has made me decide on going with either Hornby or Peco.  I want to use set track due to my limited modelling ability when it comes to laying track.  However the fact the both systems use dead frogs concerns me as the layout will have mainly small wheelbase shunters and will be wired for DCC.  

The last Hornby track I used I wasn't impressed by the quality but that was 4 maybe 5 years ago maybe things have improved.  

 

I am interested in finding out what others think?  And any advise is much appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Mark.   

[melmerby]

Can't you use Peco live frog points with their set track?

 

( In case you are interested Hornby & Bachmann track is the same, some Bachmann items even have Hornby R numbers moulded into them!)

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[crompton 33]

Peco track over Hornby every time. Plus it's British made.

[ejstubbs]

I presume the OP means that certain locos do derail in the Fleischmann points.

 

Yes, it is perfectly possible to use Peco Code 100 Streamline electrofrog points with Setrack straights and curves.  However, the Streamline points do not match the Setrack curve radii or angles, or indeed the standard lengths of the straight sections of track, so it almost inevitably means you have to chop some of the Setrack pieces to work with the Streamline geometries.  There can be other small tweaks required on top of this.  It's not particularly difficult but it's that step away from the plug-and-play nature of pure Setrack.  There are plenty of threads on RMWeb on this particular topic eg here, here and here.

 

As I understand it, the Fleischmann geometry is different again (8º turnout angle and different curve radii) so neither Peco nor Hornby Setrack will be a direct replacement, if that's what the OP was hoping.

Edited September 18, 2017 by ejstubbs

[40F]

Try Bachmann point numbers 36-872 and 36-873 as they are live frog, 36-870 and 36-871 are isolating points and they are the same size etc as Hornby and Peco set track.

[melmerby]

Try Bachmann point numbers 36-872 and 36-873 as they are live frog,

That's quite a feat considering the frog is plastic!

 

Bachmann image:

 

 

Keith

Edited September 18, 2017 by melmerby

[frobisher]

That's quite a feat considering the frog is plastic!

I suspect 40F was getting confused between power routing (the later) and non-power routing points (the former).

[frobisher]

( In case you are interested Hornby & Bachmann track is the same, some Bachmann items even have Hornby R numbers moulded into them!)

Not quite true. The Bachmann track is made from the former Hornby tooling used before Hornby moved production to China. The Chinese "copies" of the "made by Roco" track were finessed a little bit and have some minor improvements to flangeways etc.

 

But the geometry is the same so they are interchangeable, and you can pick up the Bachmann track cheaper than the Hornby equivalents.

[Andy Mac]

Stick with Peco (set) track.... it's just a better quality product than Hornby....

[ejstubbs]

36-872 and 36-873 are non-isolating and are intended to be ready-to-run for DCC ie without having to add the clips that Hornby sell to convert their isolating points for DCC use.  As melmerby's linked photo makes clear, they have a huge chunk of plastic at the frog so aren't in any way "live frog".  In fact they are mechanically identical to the isolating versions, only differing in the electrical switching between routes ie not having any.

[melmerby]

Not quite true. The Bachmann track is made from the former Hornby tooling used before Hornby moved production to China. The Chinese "copies" of the "made by Roco" track were finessed a little bit and have some minor improvements to flangeways etc.

 

But the geometry is the same so they are interchangeable, and you can pick up the Bachmann track cheaper than the Hornby equivalents.

Recently when I looked at a Hornby R8072 and a Bachmann 36-872 I couldn't see any difference even down to both being marked R8072. As far as I could see they were identical.

 

Keith

[Joseph_Pestell]

Back to the OP, Peco every time over the others.

 

But really, do consider using Streamline points rather than Setrack. The greater radii really do make for a much better looking layout and more reliable running. Making curves from flexible track is really not that difficult especially if you use Tracksetta tools. There is also a range of larger radius curves, compatible with Code 100 Peco Streamline, available from Shinohara if you don't want to create your own curves. Check out the ScaleLink website.

[melmerby]

Back to the OP, Peco every time over the others.

 

But really, do consider using Streamline points rather than Setrack. The greater radii really do make for a much better looking layout and more reliable running. Making curves from flexible track is really not that difficult especially if you use Tracksetta tools. There is also a range of larger radius curves, compatible with Code 100 Peco Streamline, available from Shinohara if you don't want to create your own curves. Check out the ScaleLink website.

And the Streamline system offers Electrofrog (live frog) versions of most of it's code 100 turnouts & crossings.

Over all the cost is just little more than using Set Track.

 

Keith

[The Johnster]

I'd have to echo what has been said about overall quality of Peco track and pointwork compared to Hornby/Bachmann.  My layout uses Peco Streamline with Peco medium radius points on the visible section, and a pair of small radius for the loco release crossover, and small radius in the fiddle yard.  The fiddle yard incorporates some no.4 radius Peco setrack.  But there is one Hornby no.4 to no.3 curved point, and, while it works well enough, does not have the feel of build quality of the Pecos; I bought it because the shop was sold out of Peco setrack versions, and may well replace it with a Peco version at a later stage simply because I don't like it!

 

All these points are insulfrog, by the way, and running is more or less perfect as long as pickups are clean and adjusted.  Close attention was paid to level and smooth joints in the areas around pointwork when laying, and this has paid off.  Locos are 6 (except for one 8) coupled GW tank engines from Hornby and Bachmann.

[Butler Henderson]

It is best IMO to avoid dead frogs wherever possible. I foolishly used a pair of elderly dead frog Peco Streamline points on a station crossover that is now pretty inaccessible for any thoughts of replacing it without causing severe damage to the station canopy. Problem with it is that the dead frogs are ideally placed to kill power to some locos assisted by the fact the track levels appear to warped slightly - its not unusual in my experience for the plastic frog to alter its height in relationship to the outside rails. Worst affected loco is my Bachmann Jinty which I ended up putting a stay alive in it.

[Trains4U]

Hornby and Peco setrack are pretty much interchangeable, with a couple of minor differences.

 

Namely, Peco have two types of short straight, neither of which are the same size as the R610, so if planning, make sure you use the correct track pieces and measurements.

 

Also, whilst the geometry of the points is identical, the sleeper patterns are not, so surface mounted point motors are not interchangeable between Hornby and peco.

 

 

Our original shop layout was made with Fleischmann track, and we experienced the same issues, particularly on curved points.  The rails are filed to take the switching rails and make the gauge a little bit too wide where the loco back-to-backs are a bit narrow (Usually Hornby locos) causing them to ground on the sleepers and derail.

 

Personally, I'd go for Peco.   It is generally better quality, and is made by lovely ladies in white lab-coats in Devon.

[The Johnster]

It is best IMO to avoid dead frogs wherever possible. I foolishly used a pair of elderly dead frog Peco Streamline points on a station crossover that is now pretty inaccessible for any thoughts of replacing it without causing severe damage to the station canopy. Problem with it is that the dead frogs are ideally placed to kill power to some locos assisted by the fact the track levels appear to warped slightly - its not unusual in my experience for the plastic frog to alter its height in relationship to the outside rails. Worst affected loco is my Bachmann Jinty which I ended up putting a stay alive in it.

 

 

It is particularly important if you are using Peco or any insulfrog points to ensure that the baseboard is level as, while the loco is traversing the dead section, only one wheelset may be picking up current; old, probably pre-used, points and and warped trackbed will lead to trouble, exacerbated in this case by the station roof and the Jinty being the right length to lose pickup on back-to-back points in an engine release crossover.  Can't see a cure without removing the station roof and relaying.  

 

I would not recommend dead frogs on anything larger than Peco medium radius.  My Hornby 2721, same wheelbase as a Jinty, runs fine through my back to back Peco small radius Streamlines, which are out in the open not under a roof and brand new when they were laid.

[melmerby]

 

My Hornby 2721, same wheelbase as a Jinty, runs fine through my back to back Peco small radius Streamlines, which are out in the open not under a roof and brand new when they were laid.

My Hornby 2721 like most locos using that era chassis is really an 0-4-0 as the centre pair don't touch the track!

 

Keith

 

[The Johnster]

Yes, 0-4-0 to all intents and pickup purposes.  I have found no need to arrange extra pickups on the centre drivers, but it should not be an impossible task!  As supplied with the rubber traction tyres (Satan's expectorant) they are unable to pick up current in any case.  Incidentally, removing the tyres of course left me with groooved tyres on the centre drivers; this did not led to any running issues.  When I get a round tuit, I will replace them with proper wheels.