Manning Wardle class H -4mm scratchbuild

[Ruston]

I've started another one.

To be different again, this one will have yet another variation on the cab/spectacle plate and will also have the top-hinged half smokebox door.

The one in the above photo has a Naylor safety valve but I have a left over brass casting from building the RT Models Old Class I, so will fit this and spring balance safety valves.

 

That's as far as it's got.

 

Whilst I have the patterns out and the miller set up, would anyone be interested in a set of parts making so they can build their own Class H?

 

.

[ahardy]

Oh how I wish I had the skills to assemble one. I would have bitten your hand off for some parts, but the reality is I wouldn't be able to make anything from them!

 

I love the H's. I spent quite some time helping the owner restore the locomotive that is now residing at Barrow Hill when it was at Middleton.

 

Andy

[Ruston]

Oh how I wish I had the skills to assemble one. I would have bitten your hand off for some parts, but the reality is I wouldn't be able to make anything from them!

 

I love the H's. I spent quite some time helping the owner restore the locomotive that is now residing at Barrow Hill when it was at Middleton.

 

Andy

Yes, it's a shame about it going to BH. I was looking forward to seeing it in action in its home city. It's the only standard gauge MW left in the UK but it's not a H. It's a Special and has 14-inch cylinders, where the cylinders on a H are 12-inch. It has a larger water tank, longer wheelbase and is just that bit larger all round. It's more like what all those models that are based on Hornby's Lanky Pug are - the same as was featured in BRM one time.

 

There are two H class in Australia and there could be one in Chile. There's a photo, taken in 1993, of the one in Chile in the third volume of Fred Harman's Manning Wardle books.

[ahardy]

It was a lovely engine, I spent a lot of time with the owner doing various bits and pieces with him but the railway wanted to move it on as progress was slow.

 

Your correct about it not being an exact H. One thing I have found with Mannings (and I've been lucky enough to work with four standard gauge examples) is that there is no such things as a standard...

[Ruston]

Progress.

 

I have done a few things differently to the last two of these that I have built. Instead of turning the cylinders and then cladding them with brass I have put tubes in for the piston rods and have wrapped lead around the tubes, before cladding with plasticard. It still keeps the weight up but is less work than turning the cylinders. The tank internals are also altered. Where I used three profiles, spaced apart with brass rod to make a skeleton for the brass shim cladding, I have used just two, which are spaced by two pieces of 36 thou. engraving brass plate that go up to just before the curve to form an open box. It is easier to clad this than the skeleton, gives more space for lead weight inside the tank and one of the rods got in the way of drilling the holes for the handrail knobs with the previous design.

 

The only parts that I'm buying in especially are the chimney and tank filler, which will be the same cast whitemetal items from RT Models, as before. The buffers are RT but came as alternative parts in the Old Class I kit. The wheels are proper Manning Wardle wheels, by Alan Gibson, and will come out of the K's Hudswell Clarke kit that I recently bought, which had these wheels with it. The previous two used High Level "High Flier" 60:1 gearboxes but I was given a complete wreck of a L&Y pug on an equally wrecked High Level chassis. I broke the chassis for parts and will use the gearbox in this. I think it's a 108:1. The motor will be a cheap Chinese motor of the same dimensions as a Mashima 10/15 only at a fraction of the price. I bought a batch of 6 and they worked out at under £3 each so I figured they were worth a punt. If they turn out to be duff I have a Mashima 10/24 from the pug that may just squeeze in but at the expense of some lead weighting.

[Giles]

Nice! I was wondering if you'd finished it yet (The pace you manage to work!).

 

When I've done cylinders like that I have also previously made a front and back plate as you have done, and then filled the body of it with Milliput, which was then filed back flush when dry. Apart from being quick and easy, it does mean that the wrapper can't 'un-wrap', which is reassuring. Just a thought.

 

Lovely work as always.

[Ruston]

Thanks, Giles. I doubt that it'll unwrap. In addition to the strip of lead that surrounds the tube there are other small pieces placed in after the wrapper was glued on and the whole lot was flooded with cyano glue to hold the small pieces in.

 

As pictured, the loco weighs 57g. Addition of the motor, gearbox and axles should take that up to 70g. The two that I have already built weigh 144g for the full cab version and 157g for the canopied one, so there's a way to go yet.

 

I have been looking again through books and photos of Class H Mannings and have realised that to do this very early one in new condition needs more pattern-making. I need to revise the brake gear for wooden brake blocks.

 

 

[wagonbasher]

Progress.

A potential name maybe?

 

Andy

[Ruston]

A potential name maybe?

 

Andy

It'll probably take the name of another Egyptian god, as most of the fleet for the new layout have.

 

I've made the bunkers and cab rear and have fitted them. The capping for these was made from thin nickel silver strip, bent to shape and soldered on. The weatherboard is also in place and the cast whitemetal chimney and tank filler, from RT Models, are glued on.

 

A hole has been made in the top of the firebox to take the cast brass safety valve cover, plus one for the whistle and one for the injector steam valve. These will be fitted after painting. There is no boiler backhead as yet but that can also be fitted after painting. I need to make and fit the sandboxes and the brake column and the bodywork can then be painted.

 

Having studied photos of the arrangement of brake gear with wooden brake blocks I have found there to be a pivot on the lower part of the frames, almost midway between the wheels. There isn't much metal to be drilling into here, so I can either bodge it by some kind of reinforcement, or make a new set of frames that have the strengthened area and the hole already in them.

[Ruston]

It now has handrails fitted and I have made and fitted the sandboxes. The frames have recieved plunger pickups and the wheels are on as a trial fit. The wheels are rather slack on the axles and I'm doubtful of their ability to remain quartered.

The rods look a bit too chunky, even though they're from the same pattern as the previous loco, where they didn't look bad at all. I may make some adjustments to the pattern and try again. There is some damage to the rod facing camera, so I'll need to make that one again regardless.

[Barclay]

Gibson wheels? I had a set recently that were pretty loose. Loctite did the trick, at least I hope it has.

[wagonbasher]

It'll probably take the name of another Egyptian god, as most of the fleet for the new layout have.

Was 'Herpes' an Egyptian god, the names catching

 

Andy

[Ruston]

It has come on quite some way since my last post.

The gearbox is different to the previous builds and instead of the 'Hi Flier, or the previously mentioned pug gearbox, ' I fitted a 'Short Slimliner+'. This enables the motor to sit lower in the boiler and so frees up space for weight in the saddle tank. The pug gearbox is rather wide and would have been a very tight fit, so it will go in something else in the future. I have also used Gibson plunger pickups, instead of home-made bits of wire and copperclad. These are much better as there is no adjustment required and the bottom part of the frames is left clear and without unsightly wires going up between the frame plates. The motor is a cheap Chinese N20 but with a long output shaft and, of course, no gearbox. The motor shaft is only 1mm Dia. and so had to be sleeved with brass tube to fit the worm.

 

The crossheads were made by yet another different method. This time I made them from box-section and strip brass and used the slide bars as a jig. On the first built I made 4 seperate slide bars and soldered them individually to the cylinders and motion bracket. This time the slide bars for each side were made as just 2 overlength and elongated squared off bracket pieces, soldered only to the cylinder and then the excess trimmed to fit. They are not attached to the motion bracket and so the entire cylinder and bar assembly is fitted as one unit, screwed to the frames by 12BA screws.

 

Almost there now. I still have to make and fit the brake gear, the lower firebox and ashpan and the pipework for the injector (other side) and the water valve for the eccentric-driven feed pump. And backhead detail!

 

I'm not happy about the paint job. I started off painting it blue but I didn't like it. I had applied the lining and didn't want to take all of that off and start again so gave the blue a coat of Tamiya clear yellow, which turned it green. It's not so noticable in real life but the camera and flash really show up the bits where the yellow is either too thin or has been missed altogether.

 

But at least it's all running nicely now...

Edited December 5, 2018 by Ruston

[Ruston]

A few more steps toward the finish line.

 

On the first build I scratchbuilt the backhead from plasticard. It wasn't very detailed but with the loco having a cab that didn't really matter. The second one used a single-piece cast whitemetal backhead, from RT Models. It's OK but the gauge glasses are just rectangles in the casting. This time I have really gone to town on it and have made it from brass and plastikard.

 

The polished brass surround is made using the same pattern as is used for the front of the firebox and is milled from 40 thou. engraving brass and filed to a curve on the outer edge. This is soldered on to another milled brass part, this time from the pattern used for the back of the firebox. A thin piece of plastikard was used to infill the surround and the various bits and pieces were fixed on using MEK.  The rivets are Archers transfers.

 

The gauge glasses are square section plastic, drilled though and water cock handles made from .45mm brass wire. The spring balance safety valves are round section plastic, drilled and pierced by lengths of .45mm brass wire.

 

The backhead fitted. The spring balances need to be connected to the safety valve cover. The reversing lever is an etched brass item, supplied by Mike Edge. The brake column was made in the exact same way as in the first built - an O gauge handrail knob, a length of brass tube and a length of wire, bent to shape. The pressure gauge is a piece of round plastic.

 

The lower part of the firebox has been made from plastikard and the remaining space between its rear and the gearbox has been filled with lead. Total weight now 146g.

 

I have only just remembered that these early Mannings had what I can only describe as a mudguard over the front wheels. This lower part of this usually follows the curve of the wheel but I have noticed that the loco in the works photo at the top of this page has the guard coming all the way down to the top of the upper slide bar. This will be easier to make, so I may go for that pattern, rather than the curved one.

[Ruston]

 

 

 

 

Now it's just a matter of waiting for the custom etched cylinder covers, tank brackets and works and name plates, from Narrow Planet.

 

 

[mike morley]

What is the collective noun for multiple Manning Wardles?  An envy?

[Sandhole]

MWH3-7-1.jpg

 

MWH3-8-1.jpg

 

MWH3-9a-1.jpg

 

MWH3-9d-1.jpg

 

MWH3-9c-1.jpg

Now it's just a matter of waiting for the custom etched cylinder covers, tank brackets and works and name plates, from Narrow Planet.

Stunning Dave, simply stunning!!!

You do great work, but I think you have surpassed yourself with these!!!

                                                          Chris.

[Ruston]

With the addition of the custom etches for the tank brackets and cylinder ends, from Narrow Planet, and the fitting of works and name plates, the loco itself is finished. I ordered some more figures from Andrew Stadden and have just finished painting them to be added as crew, so I'm calling this one finished.

 

I took it to the Keighley clubrooms open day and gave it a good run round their test track, where it ran very well. It was able to run right down to a crawl and has proved the cheap Chinese motor to be every bit as good as a Mashima.

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2019 by Ruston

[AdeMoore]

On 05/12/2018 at 20:36, Ruston said:

 

The crossheads were made by yet another different method. This time I made them from box-section and strip brass and used the slide bars as a jig. On the first built I made 4 seperate slide bars and soldered them individually to the cylinders and motion bracket. This time the slide bars for each side were made as just 2 overlength and elongated squared off bracket pieces, soldered only to the cylinder and then the excess trimmed to fit. They are not attached to the motion bracket and so the entire cylinder and bar assembly is fitted as one unit, screwed to the frames by 12BA screws.

 

Dave thanks for the link back on my thread RE cylinder spacing.

But Reading all the way through I came to the above.

Box section and strip brass sounds interesting, would you have anymore detail or photos on that?

 Cheers 

[Ruston]

18 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

Dave thanks for the link back on my thread RE cylinder spacing.

But Reading all the way through I came to the above.

Box section and strip brass sounds interesting, would you have anymore detail or photos on that?

 Cheers 

I can do you a sketch but it'l have to wait until tomorrow, when I can scan it on my other computer.

[AdeMoore]

Thanks most kind, I’m currently rebuilding crossheads and piston rods as of this evening with epoxy resin! Where I didn’t want to attempt resoldering and ceasing the whole thing up, that yet may still be the outcome.

[Ruston]

This, hopefully, explains how I did it.

On the left is a cross-section of the crosshead, soldered between two short lengths of square tube. The cylinder (in grey) is machined from brass bar and has a hole bored down the centre for the piston rod and slots milled top and bottom for the slide bars. The slide bars are made as one piece and the crosshead is slid over the bars before they are slid onto the cylinder. The piston rod is pushed through the cylinder to meet the crosshead and the two are soldered together. Doing it this way means everything is aligned and should be free to move. The slide bars are removed and the crosshead/rod removed from the cylinders so that the outsides of the tubes can be filed away to leave the crosshead looking as it should, with just enough of the tube sides remaining to keep the crosshead on the bars. The slidebars are then put back in the cylinder and soldered in, with the joining piece then being removed.

 

I'm not sure if this will help you at all. It depends on how you've made up your slide bars and cylinders. Another thing is that etched kits tend to use slide bars that are deeper than they are wide, which isn't the case in the prototype and I doubt you'll find any tube small enough. I mill mine out of 0.7mm thick nickel silver sheet and so I don't have a problem with that.

[AdeMoore]

Dave just had time to get to grips with this I’ve had a sketch on the iPad to see if I understand.

 

 

 

Let. me see! The block 4 I get milled slots and a hole through. Then it’s more difficult so slide bars 2 are fixed to the block not sure how as later you say you remove them as a unit.

Then the crosshead 1  is slide over the slide bars as they are box section then the piston rod passed through the block and soldered to the crosshead. Trying to work out slide bars made as one piece !

Ah I think I have it! Famous last words. Updated sketch..

 

 

 

so I drew the crossheads 1 in the wrong place I think they should be in the gap between 2 & 4 so they slide left on to the slide bars. Then the piston goes in and gets soldered.

If I have it right? One question how do you get the slide bars made bang on width of slots?

fingers crossed!

Cheers

Ade

[Ruston]

1 hour ago, AdeMoore said:

Dave just had time to get to grips with this I’ve had a sketch on the iPad to see if I understand.

 

 

 

Let. me see! The block 4 I get milled slots and a hole through. Then it’s more difficult so slide bars 2 are fixed to the block not sure how as later you say you remove them as a unit.

Then the crosshead 1  is slide over the slide bars as they are box section then the piston rod passed through the block and soldered to the crosshead. Trying to work out slide bars made as one piece !

Ah I think I have it! Famous last words. Updated sketch..

 

 

 

so I drew the crossheads 1 in the wrong place I think they should be in the gap between 2 & 4 so they slide left on to the slide bars. Then the piston goes in and gets soldered.

If I have it right? One question how do you get the slide bars made bang on width of slots?

fingers crossed!

Cheers

Ade

That's about it. I get the dimensions to be the same by measuring the diameter of the cylinder and then  I subtract the distance between the inner faces of the slide bars and divide by 2. The slots in the cylinder are milled to the resulting depth.

[AdeMoore]

Wonderful Dave, I don’t have access to a milling machine but the slide bars are an excellent idea I can use so thanks for that. Where do you obtain the box section and bars please? Size would be handy to. The make slots fit the bars way of doing obvious now you say it, but alas my mind works opposite! Thanks for all your help much appreciated.

 Cheers