A new from old H0 layout in Busch HOf

[bertiedog]

Have you seen:

 

https://www.noch.com/en/product-categories/buildings-for-model-railroaders-and-diorama-builders/laser-cut-building-kits/city-country-village/business-buildings/winery-hauser-buhler-66712.html

 

This looks spectacular. I look forward to seeing this progress.

Have you seen the Exchange rate!  A bit more than the Vollmer to say the least at over £90, but a nice arrangement.

[bertiedog]

At the rate this is going it will be running before the Peco bullhead points arrive, which has halted work on the Middlechurch 00 layout completely for the moment.

 

One of the Busch Feldbahn diesel locos arrived this morning, along with some Peco Z gauge track, and the steel compound tape to go under the track. So not long to get some track laid and tested. The scenery is being done on removable thin plywood boards to allow for getting at the tunnel sections more easily. It also allows the scenery to be finished on the bench, rather than struggling on the layout at a higher level than the work bench.

[wollastonblue]

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/NOCH/27-4-0-219825-004010-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-de-p-0/ein_produkt.html 

 

 

Current exchange rate £68.21, which with the 2 buildings and the vines isn't that bad.  At least you haven't looked at the Faller Monastery!

[bertiedog]

The exchange rate price was based on the makers price at £92, but the lower one you quote is offered on some sites, and I do not require a monastery, the Kibri Castle is large enough.....

[bertiedog]

A Monastery?..there will be enough trouble with the Schlossed Blue Nuns occupying the Castle, let alone having a nearby Monastery!

 

On the locos it seems the motors are not coreless types, just efficient micro motors. I have ordered a pile of bits and pieces from Nigel Lawton to make three chassis, one plain frames, one out frames, and one with outside frames and cranks. These will have a 5:1 belt drive, plus 10:1 worm and gear sets. Rough layout drawing shows a 7mm diameter 3 mm thick magnet can just fit between the wheels. To save pickups they will be split framed around a Tufnol middle section under the motor and the layshaft, which will be ballraced, there appears enough space to get a small flywheel on the motor shaft, behind the pulley. Al Diesel outline at first.

Stephen

[bertiedog]

Done rough outline drawing of the chassis and looks very practical to make, far less bother than 2mm scale chassis. Short wheel base locos can be catered for with the magnet in the middle altered to two magnets, one at each end. I think that split frame will be vital, no pickups or dirt problems. 060 versions are easy with the Lawton parts and gears, and I am looking into basing most on one size of wheel with integral stub back to allow the frame to pick up the power.

The Peco Z gauge track seems to go down to about 5 inch radius curves with alternate sleepers removed, any tighter and it may need to be soldered to screws to keep the gauge accurate.

[bertiedog]

in the meantime track ordered, at least enough to make a start on the vineyard end and under the Castle, and one of the Feldbahn Steam locos in black livery, coming from Germany, and post free as well, 

 

It may get a red paint job added later and a bit of finer detailing, like handrails and pipes, plus some better valve gear and slide bars, and some crew, the 00 scale Modelux figures would fit well

 

Glazing and brass surrounds can be fitted to the cab windows, plus some footplate extras.

 

On the track I have also bought two packs of spare rail section and with the discarded sleepers from the ready to lay Z track, this doubles the amount of track, a cunning plan to save a bit of money!

 

The metal tape is also ordered as well, so that track laying can proceed ASAP.

[bertiedog]

Track cross section, Peco half sleepered on top of white plastic tape top surface, metal core, then self adhesive rape to baseboard, the lot ballasted over with basing sand or ballast.

The Peco sleepers will be glued to the white PVC after it is sanded, with impact adhesive and then ballasted down.

 

[bertiedog]

A useful side effect of the magnets is the possibility if wide use of reed switches for location, switching points or level crossing etc and other effects like signals. The reed relays sense the magnet about 1.5 inches away,

[bertiedog]

Ebay is wonderful, look up reed relays to get a pack of cheap ones, and under reed relays there are very few, they list them as reed switches instead, with bulk packs!

Anyway a bulk pack for a couple of quid from UK supplier coming for the layout.

Stephen

[bertiedog]

The costs are spiralling up wards at the moment, it is almost reaching the cost of one Heljan L&B loco.........What seems an expensive German made loco and system, turns out to be quite affordable with a few alterations, and few items with made in China on them...

 

However points, even though not Chinese, are expensive, and hand built will be the order of the day, with PC sleepers and code 60 rail.

 

The idea is to copy the old Wrenn track idea of closing the frog gap as the hole bade structure of the point pivots to operate, a bit more sophisticated than Hornby clockwork type, but both cause the frog gap to vanish totally, with fantastic improvement in running and electrical simplicity. With the Wrenn type it barely shows that the frog closes, and you can leave the check rails in place even though they are non functional. to ease making I will settle on two types, a six inch radius point, and a 9 inch radius, which covers the present needs of three to four points, with the possibility of more added later on.

The lack of a frog gap should smooth the passage of the loco and stock.

 

On the stock, the line will rely on L&B Peco and Minitrains types, re-gauged to 6.5mm. The Peco wheels cannot be used as they still use the hard nylon moulded wheelsets, so these have to be replaced with Graham Farish wheels in N gauge, which can be adjusted from 9mm to 6.5mm. The 4mm scale size is no problem, they just look a bit beefier than usual, and help make the track look even more narrow gauge than usual. The tippers etc are about the right size and Roco and Minitrains do 3.5mm scale ones in a good selection. They come with metal wheels that can e re-gauged at once.

 

At first I will leave the couplings as Bemo type, it is standard in 009, and the H0f locos can take a spike to operate the loop, or be fitted with the loop instead. They should pull OK, pushing will have to be tested.

 

On passenger stock there appears to be a total disregard for health and safety on the preserved Feldbahns as most seem to feature flatbed wagons with garden seats bolted on the the top surface, no handrails, no safety features! In one video on youtube the passengers all get off the train to push it in Titfield Thunderbolt style after a derailment occurs! Some resolutely stay sitting on the garden benches whilst it is sorted out.....

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

An idea in development is smoke, or fog, not the hot oil that smoke units use, but the Vapour type used by smokers,

The idea is to use a small air pump to supply one of the E ciggies units hidden in the area under the castle and in the tunnels, so that a reed switch would trigger the vapour smoke as the loco enters and it bursts out in a cloud of steam from the tunnel.

The amounts of vapour produced by small pumps is impressive, demonstrated on you tube, and the vapour is water based and non toxic within reason. Low odour liquid is made as well, and is more friendly than the oil used in smoke units.

The pumps are cheap, about £1.60 from China, air pumps for aquariums, and any cheap E cig will do, connected up with silicon pipe.

If it produces as much smoke as shown in the videos , you could end up with a fog bank over the Vineyard if not careful.....

 

Pump unit.

 

or use a smoking lady.....

[rue_d_etropal]

I like the idea of the flexi steel(?) strip. I wonder if that could be used more for 9mm gauge. With 3D printed bodies there is no weight to locos, and easier (?) to fit magnets. Too late for my latest project,, I think, but might try something to see if would work.

 

Having said that from my experience with T gauge, when it first came out, my preference for graphiting rail surface for improived pickup, counteracts the advanges of magnets holding the loco down, so back to plan A, and use a pusher wagon.

Edited October 2, 2017 by rue_d_etropal

[bertiedog]

I notice that Busch now make a "ghost" wagon, shades of the Kitmaster Van with a motor bogie under it, apparently it can pull the non motorised items that Busch make around the track..

The magnets might be a bit obtrusive in N gauge, they are easy to hide on narrow gauge though. The tape works out at £1.57 per metre, which is stlll less than the Busch track, the total being the Peco Z plus the tape. At 12.5 wide it may be possible to slit the tape in half at  6.25mm, and it still work, but it needs a careful experiment to confirm it will still operate. It obviously halves the tape cost, but would not make such an easy base to mount the half de-sleepered Peco track on, as the wider tape.

Stephen

Edited October 2, 2017 by bertiedog

[bertiedog]

The Castle is now about half painted, with repairs and extras to add, plus getting the Nuns installed... after they have de schossed themselves and got back in the habits.

 

I have found a Vollmer raised signal box, a Faller "Folly" castle tower ruin, small scale for background perspective use, and an unknown brand small German Chapel, all retrieved from storage or fitted to the layout. The Volmer Winery is due as soon as the seller returns from holiday! One house is under restoration, so only a Town Hall or Hotel to find or buy in.

The Vollmer signal box is a bit over the top for a Feldbahn, but as tee is a piece of duel track to the engine shed it can be left to oversee this part of the layout around the engine sheds,

 

I see that lots of the Faller Building range has laser cut card parts in it now, not all plastic, which sounds a bit like an economy  move as you cannot get the depth you can with mouldings and durability may be lower. The Noch range s near all laser card, but with muti -layered design, but very expensive, more like American Craftsmen wood kits in prices.

 

I'll have re-draw the outline plan ( the drawing), a bit more, as the layout depth available is less than at first thought, at about a foot. but it has larger ends for turning circles already built in and worth using rather than discarding. over all 12 feet by one foot, plus the ends for HO set track diameter turning circles.

Stephen

[bertiedog]

PCB strip in fibre glass backing on order for the points, to go with the Peco rail section already on order. Roughed out a design for the closing frog pointwork as well, but it will need one made to check it all out that it works OK, and does not risk shorting out etc. The pivoting blades will need to be switched like a normal frog to get it to work reliably. The check rails will be added, but are non functional in this type of point, purely cosmetic as there is no frog gap.

[bertiedog]

Back to the boards and laying the track bed, complicated a bit with some of the H0f elevated on trestles or embankments, so I will just have to work along the line from one end to the other to get the levels involved. Fortunately the Locos can take fierce gradients with the magnets in action, albeit with short trains to ease the loads.

 

The vertical thickness of the whole end areas will need increasing to cover the tunnels, and also the village end as well. Have to find more Styrene packing or buy in insulation sheets of expanded foam, plus some ceiling tiles. A good roadbed is card, it works over well laid expanded foam, and H9f is hardly heavy duty stuff.

 

I was going to discard the loo brush pines, but may refinish them and get more, as they look all right in tighter groups and give an air of a consistent type at least. They do look like Christmas tress when set on their own though.

[bertiedog]

The steam engine from Berlin has come in the post, excellent production, also Peco track pack, tested with the plastic metal tape, works as good as the Busch track or better, up walls etc.

A|so some Roco dump trucks in HOe for altering to 6.5 mm. A lot of H0e will modify easily if fitted with metal wheelsets.

[bertiedog]

Unlike the drawing earlier, the tape at 12.5mm exactly matches the Peco track width, and tests are needed to determine if the metallic tape is giving too much pull down as it may cause more wear and tear on the engine.

 

The tape can be split in half and this would economise by doubling the tape, but seems to leave more than enough attraction from the locos magnet, which are very powerful Neodymium types. They trip magnetic reed switches easily at over an inch away..

 

I am awaiting the separate Peco made rail sections to be able to split the track mouldings to double up the amount of track with the un-used sleepers in each 24 inch length of Z gauge track. For the price of the rail section it doubles the narrow gauge track.

 

The short, in terms of the original Busch track, sleepers do not show at all badly, it still gives a good narrow gauge look to it

 

The Roco tipping dump trucks took a matter of minutes to regauge to 6.5mm. and are cheaper and better detailed than Busch. Lots of H0e and 009 items can be converted, only bogied stock may give trouble with the potentially tight curves. 4 wheeled stock is OK, even the L&B Peco stock, but they will need  new metal wheels like Graham Farish, (Bachmann) make, as Peco only supply solid nylon moulded wheels in 9mm.

 

Kato and  other Japanese trucks can be used for bolster wagons etc., these usually have metal wheels, and are available via Ebay as spares.

 

Other than that there are the Busch items, but with postage are expensive from Germany, or limited stocks from UK stockists.

 

Most of the items are top quality and will give years of use, and many are marked made in the EU, not China..

 

As the line is  basically a Vineyard the dump trucks are used as  transport for the grapes etc, with taller versions in pictures, that would have to be scratchbuilt on Roco or Peco subframes. Wood box wagons would also be used, and also some barrel carrying wagons will be needed, along with special very large barrels to be used for Festivals.

 

As the line is quite long, other industries can be catered for to give other traffic to the main station and winery units. The main line of the H0f is about 25 feet in length, plus double tacked area and several sidings.

 

Cost alone with restrict the line at first, but at least the buildings are dealt with, bar a Hotel for the Village area, searching Ebay for suitable plastic kits to modify for use.

 

I have the old Vollmer Winery kit coming, and an old discontinued Vollmer Blacksmiths model, which will fit in near the village, with it's own siding.

 

One item to make are the fences and supports for the vines and find suitable material to make realistic vines along them, Noch and Busch make rubberised foam that can be pulled out to form the vines, the cover with fine tea leaves as the foliage, sprayed  green.

 

Other items to find rather than make are an H0 field tractor, and a vintage coach for visitors by road to the Castle.

 

Lots of the rest of the detailing can be scratch built, or re cycled from other kits. Many of the Oxford vehicles from the 00 range can be  used as they area bit under scale in several cases with smaller cars. The small Morris and the Austin Seven are nearer H0 than 00 size.

 

There do not seem to be many Nuns figures on the market, still looking!

[bertiedog]

Looks like Wiking are a source of older types of tractors in H0 scale on Ebay, but it will have to wait till funds are available! 1/43 tractors are far more common than H0 sized offerings. Cars are not bad, there are several continental cars from Oxford in the ongoing range, even a Bubble car from Messerschmitt. Most German made cars and tractors are  very expensive, plus heavy postage costs from Germany.

Oddly the Feldbahn loco came post free offer.. normally the post to the UK is about £15, but it is never that in fact when the parcel is checked.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

Preiser seem to do a set of Nuns,but out of stock, and expensive!

[bertiedog]

Start on some track laying today, mainly to test out the method, and then prove it in practice that it works with the modified Peco track

.

First half the sleeper mouldings are removed from each 24 inch of Peco Z gauge track, they slip off quite easily, and thankfully go back on easier than some gauges as the retaining mouldings are bigger in relation to the gauge than other Peco track.

 

Then they just require the rest to have the web moulding split into separate sleepers. The spare track bases can be used with some plain rail section to make more track of the Decauville narrow gauge type. The last track of this type I used was in the 1960's which the Joueff Decauville 9mm narrow gauge locos, which were very poorly made compared to the Busch or Peco items. Some track was plated steel, as were the wheels which wore and rusted. Later they changed to brass and Nickel.

 

It will need a simple plywood or plasticard jig made to re-space the Z gauge sleepers on the track bed, which is the magnetic tape, with a vinyl top surface, that can take double sided tape to secure down the track, before ballasting, which is the final hold down for the track.

 

Straight or gentle curves are OK on the tape alone, but tighter curves will need temporary screws added though the sleeper spaces to secure it firmly to the double sided tape. The tapes hold quite well, but it's the ballast the finally secures the lot together.

 

As the length of the layout is somewhat bigger than usual, it may need feeder cables under the layout to distribute the power, as the max needed is only 3 volts. The feedback controller being built gives about 6 volts out max, which should cover any losses in the trackwork. With the high gearing they do not need PWM control for lower speeds.

 

First tests with the Busch locos show they run on about one volt to start, and there is good control between 0 and 3 to 4 volts.

The other reason for the 6 volts max is to allow for home made chassis etc., to be used as well as the Busch mechanisms. Busch does a simplified DCC system for the H0f locos, but frankly it is just another un-needed expensive addition.

 

Points will be on hold for a few days as no PC board sleepering has arrived as yet in the post, nor the Peco fishplates for joints. They appear the same as N gauge, so I can use some of them anyway, or solder join with PC strip laid along the track, not across the track. Such a joint is handy to attach power feeds and jumpers to. I use low melt solder, 148oC for such joints to help protect the plastic sleepers. But in this case the sleepers are individual, and can be moved away from the joint and slide back after it has   cooled down.

 

Some of the track will run through cobbled areas near the castle and the Winery, this will be done with Das outside the track and wood strips inside the track. There are several packs of Ho bricks that could be laid as pave patterned brickwork, left over from the L&B layout.

Any videos of the work or layout will be posted to You tube, and linked from here for viewing.

[bertiedog]

Tests on the half sleepered track for curves show that about 5 inches is a good minimum radius with the Peco Z gauge. It could be tighter, but risks distorting a bit on gauge if done at 3 to four. Fortunately I will not need the curves that small for most of the layout, as the boards are deeper than a foot at each end where loops will be needed.There is a bit of a track meander in the vineyard, but this can be within the 5 inch minimum radius.

 

The cleaned off boards, with the old H0 track removed  are ready for the new track bed to be added, the river bridges are in places, or at least one of them, but the other was never finished and needs to be built properly very soon, to lay the track, or have a firm flat base fitted, to take the rack, and add the bridge details afterwards. A sheet of 5mm Bakelite would make a nice strong flat bridge, no warping unlike wood.

 

The boards are MDF, with battens on the underside, and wall brackets on the battens to take the support, making a shelf. Whilst working on it temporary legs are fitted to allow extra weight to be put on the structure. and save collapse.

 

No layout over head lighting is fitted as yet, but I have lots of LED strip lights that can be fitted as needed on a front frame to be added. As the Castle has provision in the mouldings for lights, the buildings will all be set up with LEDs internally, and externally with street lamps as appropriate

.

The whole room is being fitted out with LED lamps rather than the CFL units used before

The river needs more water!. it is done with gloss boat varnish at present, but needs clear casting added to it to improve appearance of the rock strewn stream and give it more depth.

 

The Castle is all painted now, just needs weathering the tones down, and adding static grass and foliage to the slopes around it. The Kibri moulded plastic base fits into a wood base that the tunnels run through, and is designed to lift away to get at the tunnels inside in case of derailments etc.the loco cannot derail due to the magnets, but the stock can!

 

I was thinking of adding more detailing to the steam loco. but on refection it does not need much done, and the connecting rods and valve gear are very tiny to work on, so best left for the time being. Once moving the rods look fine, they are just a blur! The locos are very quiet as well, only a steady mild noise from the gears etc.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

Just got in a batch of cheap emulsion paint again from Poundland, in several useful shades for landscaping, 500 ml pots in tan, black, chocolate and rust red. They mix with acrylics, as well as other emulsions. Not sure if a national supply, Poundland's stock seems to depend on managers orders as well as company policy.

The paint seems good quality anyway, and perfect for plaster and poly surfaces, with a dead matt finish.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

The discontinued Vollmer kit of the winery buildings to go in the vineyard has arrived in the post. A small building plus a warehouse, a visitor centre really, but with potential to expand the layout to a railway siding to feed it, with a halt for visitors to get on the occasional passenger trains, as well as the trains dealing with the produce and supplies for the vineyard.

The design of the track around the buildings is a bit fluid at present, to get the best operating out of the sidings, and show off the Feldbahn locos.

The whole left hand end of the layout will be sloping Vineyard, so getting the levels right is difficult till more landscaping is complete.

The Winery can be built up on it's own base in the kit for the time being, and a covered loading bay added to the warehouse on the side.

So a bit of kit bashing and assembly today, as the size and position must be checked before any more complex track is laid.