Some Advice needed please

[Guest RoyalMail]

Hi

Due to a recent House move

my Round the room layout has been dismantled

so i have to start over again

i am limited to space now , all i have available is 10 feet x 4 feet

so not wanting to have something that is just running around in circles , i was thinking of a Depot Themed layout

shunting etc

as i have some Royal Mail stock

and some Dutch hoppers and locos etc

if anybody knows of anything i could take a look at

to see what i can squeeze into the space

Many thanks in advance

Royal Mail

[TonyMay]

Hi

Due to a recent House move

my Round the room layout has been dismantled

so i have to start over again

i am limited to space now , all i have available is 10 feet x 4 feet

so not wanting to have something that is just running around in circles , i was thinking of a Depot Themed layout

shunting etc

as i have some Royal Mail stock

and some Dutch hoppers and locos etc

if anybody knows of anything i could take a look at

to see what i can squeeze into the space

Many thanks in advance

Royal Mail

 

What scale do you want to use?  And if so, beware that Dutch stock will be different scale to British stock.  e.g. British OO 1:76 scale, Dutch will be H0 scale 1:87.  In N, British N gauge is 1:148 but Dutch will be 1:160.

 

Also, geographically, how could they meet? 

[Guest RoyalMail]

What scale do you want to use?  And if so, beware that Dutch stock will be different scale to British stock.  e.g. British OO 1:76 scale, Dutch will be H0 scale 1:87.  In N, British N gauge is 1:148 but Dutch will be 1:160.

 

Also, geographically, how could they meet? 

Hi Tony

sorry for the confusion , its all OO Gauge stock, all UK, and its Dutch Departmental

class 37,s and class 60,s and mk2 and mk 3 coaches

i was looking at a you tube video of a scottish depot that a chap had made , its was end to end , as i think thats my best option for the space available ?

mabye im wrong on that ?

im just lost for inspiration

 

cheers

C j

[TonyMay]

Hi Tony

sorry for the confusion , its all OO Gauge stock, all UK, and its Dutch Departmental

class 37,s and class 60,s and mk2 and mk 3 coaches

i was looking at a you tube video of a scottish depot that a chap had made , its was end to end , as i think thats my best option for the space available ?

mabye im wrong on that ?

im just lost for inspiration

 

cheers

C j

 

OK right, haha.

 

How about sketching out how much space you have in the room, including where any doors and windows are.  This will enable you to work out where the best operating and viewing positions might be.  It's generally a good idea to display the layout so that someone entering the room is drawn to and impressed by the display - so don't put the FY next to the door!

[Rivercider]

Barton Hill depot in Bristol had been used for wagon repairs, and saw lots of engineering wagon types as well as other revenue earning traffic wagons.

Once Sectorisation happened the depot became a RES depot and was home to class 47s as well as maintaining much of the van fleet.

I do not think the depot saw both wagon repairs and parcel vans at the same time, but you could use Rule 1 here!

 

Here is a dutch livery 37 shunting freight stock in 1992

https://www.flickr.com/photos/68347154@N05/29442697615/in/photolist-cBbUGN-arZ6FG-Wn4iig-pTxfPP-arZ6HC-LRKwev-LLKYud

 

Here is the a view of depot in 1993

https://www.flickr.com/photos/83763404@N07/9922361936/in/photolist-kucXy7-kh2ukR-du8JM4-pNF3ZV-UoZ8nB-quxY2L-5i1oMb-g7NGvN-g7NGsG-7YWSPU-5hW2UR-g7NGnb-gTFBkj-5iTJpD-g7Pq6i-Sv7UHT-6Vc6pA-8a9MpG-6T3tJB-8tGuUF-A3nzMh-7uoE9J-7ujMoi-R8g552-7uoDwm-ghVDvn-SwfPkt-g7PqgZ-MCBtZS-ShuLHb-WNXdS5-vRwibo-x5EFr8-rKnwap-rKhmuZ-qNzRGe-rr3Tnn

 

And in RES days in 1996

https://www.flickr.com/photos/isispics/8016080854/in/photolist-ozFb2t-ozEfmp-s7kBUV-ddmvyA-YB5XtK-ozFb5V-8tGuUF

 

cheers

[Guest RoyalMail]

Barton Hill depot in Bristol had been used for wagon repairs, and saw lots of engineering wagon types as well as other revenue earning traffic wagons.

Once Sectorisation happened the depot became a RES depot and was home to class 47s as well as maintaining much of the van fleet.

I do not think the depot saw both wagon repairs and parcel vans at the same time, but you could use Rule 1 here!

 

Here is a dutch livery 37 shunting freight stock in 1992

https://www.flickr.com/photos/68347154@N05/29442697615/in/photolist-cBbUGN-arZ6FG-Wn4iig-pTxfPP-arZ6HC-LRKwev-LLKYud

 

Here is the a view of depot in 1993

https://www.flickr.com/photos/83763404@N07/9922361936/in/photolist-kucXy7-kh2ukR-du8JM4-pNF3ZV-UoZ8nB-quxY2L-5i1oMb-g7NGvN-g7NGsG-7YWSPU-5hW2UR-g7NGnb-gTFBkj-5iTJpD-g7Pq6i-Sv7UHT-6Vc6pA-8a9MpG-6T3tJB-8tGuUF-A3nzMh-7uoE9J-7ujMoi-R8g552-7uoDwm-ghVDvn-SwfPkt-g7PqgZ-MCBtZS-ShuLHb-WNXdS5-vRwibo-x5EFr8-rKnwap-rKhmuZ-qNzRGe-rr3Tnn

 

And in RES days in 1996

https://www.flickr.com/photos/isispics/8016080854/in/photolist-ozFb2t-ozEfmp-s7kBUV-ddmvyA-YB5XtK-ozFb5V-8tGuUF

 

cheers

Thanks for the info

will google and see what comes up

cheers

[imt]

You may be able to have a short but full station in the space you have - depends where you can operate it from.  The "Piano Line" has been an inspiration for many - see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/24517-time-to-tune-the-piano/ post#9.  In essence the greatly admired Bradfield Gloucester Square  was a much bigger version of this idea with a swinging traverser in the fiddle yard to allow the storage of trains behind the backscene see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28198-bradfield-gloucester-square-br-1962-ish/

 

Bradfield was 15 feet long I believe

 

No reason why this couldn't be adapted for any kind of traffic.  10ft could still do 4 coach mail trains or similar? A 47+ 4 MK1s is about 4'4" long in old money.

Edited October 7, 2017 by imt

[DCB]

Can you possibly go wider than 4 feet?   Do you have access along one, two or three sides, can you use 1st radius, is two level with a helix an option?

 

My optimum would be continuous run for running in with a terminus above with CE yard and mail facilities and hidden sidings and return loop below with a spiral/helix joining levels, much like my 6'4" X 4'6" bed layout, but the width is very critical.  Helix should be fine for 00 diesels as my Lima 37s climb 1 in 14 with 6 Mk2s, not so clever with steam outline.

 

If the multi level solution would work for you then I will do a doodle later in AnyRail and see how it comes out.

 

Doodle in AnyRail for Peco streamline with Horby or set track curves the spiral can be one two or more turns, Operating from the top side if against a wall, better as a peninsula, a variation on my 6'4" X 4'6" bed frame based layout.  Couldn't get continuous run in but:-

 

H/S should hold 2 trains per loop, plus trains can stack on the spiral so quite a lot of stock can be used.

 

C is tweaked for bottom edge against a wall

Edited October 8, 2017 by DavidCBroad

[Guest RoyalMail]

Can you possibly go wider than 4 feet?   Do you have access along one, two or three sides, can you use 1st radius, is two level with a helix an option?

 

My optimum would be continuous run for running in with a terminus above with CE yard and mail facilities and hidden sidings and return loop below with a spiral/helix joining levels, much like my 6'4" X 4'6" bed layout, but the width is very critical.  Helix should be fine for 00 diesels as my Lima 37s climb 1 in 14 with 6 Mk2s, not so clever with steam outline.

 

If the multi level solution would work for you then I will do a doodle later in AnyRail and see how it comes out.

Hi

First off , many thanks to all for thr replies .

i will try explain this a bit further .

over the years i used Hornby & Peco Track { and after many derails and ballast probs } i switched to Roco Geoline Track { HO Scale }

i have never had a problem with the Roco { Running locos or stock } mabye it was a good idea . { i stand to be corrected on this }

the section i have available is against a back wall { so reach is a problem . i can just about make it at 4 foot }

at present the tables and boards are down , and the track { Roco Geoline } is laid , as shown in the attached pic .

now i am open to all suggestions on this , go with peco or Hornby or stick with the roco  etc

problem is , it is not as intresting as i would like it to be { if that makes any sense }

i have 4 class 47,s & 4 class 37,s  a rake of royal mail and a rake of seacows , plus a lot of british rail mk2 and mk3

i would like to create a Maintenance Depot as i have the Bachmann 4 Road Engine shed { the big one } and i would like to have a Royal Mail Depot  somewhere in the mix

adding a helix  would it need more space than 4 foot ?

attached is the pic of the current set up { the pic is 8 x 4 } but i have extended the straight sections on both sides { which gives me the 10 foot run }

i have no access to both ends of the layout { as its in between two walls } i can reach in from the front only

it will have to be pulled out for the backdrop attachment or mabye attach the backdrop halfway out the board ?

again many thanks in advance

cheers

[Guest RoyalMail]

Tried attaching a link of the current track set up { would not allaow me to post a pic ? }

so im attaching a link to the pic of the track

https://zaratren.com/zaratren/13483-home_default/caja-de-ampliacion-geoline-d-ref-61103-roco-h0.jpg

thanks

c j

[imt]

Sorry, but you cannot hope to reach over 4 ft and have buildings and scenery items, you will keep knocking things down or damaging roofs etc as you try to reach over.  It is usually said that one should limit these things to 2 ft.  The other way is to have a dog bone (or a spiral?) which gives you a circle at both ends and (minimum 3ft probably) with a narrow bit in the middle.  That would mean only 4ft for a station?.  You might need a head and hand hole in the end circles for when the stock comes off the track (and it WILL!).

 

Does it have to be roundy-roundy?  The type of track is immaterial - I would keep what you have and use it unless there are spare funds around (unlikely after moving?). If you WANT to change the track the possibilities are discussed elsewhere on this forum.

 

I think we need to know the free area (including operating space) .  Some form of diagram would help.

[Guest RoyalMail]

Hi  imt

i reckon im in trouble here

the spiral is a no no , as you have said it would only leave 4 foot , as for the track i will stick with the Roco { as i have a ton of it left over from the move }

as for roundy roundy , im not fussy , just need it to be intresting and have a few hours of pleasure with it every weekend and not loose intrest in it .

i will try scan a diagram , but attaching it seems to be a problem ?

let me see if i can explain a bit more , as you enter the room , the table is on the right against a wall  { 3 walls ,  the back of the table is against the wall , at 10 feet long . the two ends of the table are against two  walls

the table is 4 feet in Depth { so reaching out 4 feet }  which leaves me the front of the table to operate from at 10 feet long ,but has that  4 foot reach to the back , { making any sense ? }

as it stands i have the two lines running { roundy roundy }as per diagram on previous post . forgot to mention earlier , everything is DCC operated .

was just looking at a End to End  with two  operating Turntables { one at each end }

this is some food for thought , as i could shorten the Depth from 4 foot , to say 3 ft or less

will try scan a sketch or a photo and see if i can upload it

thanks again

 

cheers

[TonyMay]

4' depth is only needed if you're going to have it running as a roundy-roundy.  If not, then narrowing it to 2'-3' depth should make it more manageable.

 

There is also always N gauge which effectively gives you four times the space.  That would mean selling your existing locos/stock, but could be more interesting in the long term.

[Guest RoyalMail]

Hi Tony

alas N Gauge is out . i had a large collection 2 years ago , but due to eyesight issues i changed and went to Ho scale

but i take your point , it would give a really nice N scale Layout , but i would struggle to see it , old age catches up quickly, and too many Mr Kiplings pies Ha Ha

i have tried to upload pics with no sucess

so i have created an Album Here and added a few pics to that { so you will see my dilema }

im leaning towards an end to end with two turntables { with scenery in the middle to split the scenes }

it would give me more space for starters { in the room } and surley i could cram in a depot and a yard and a small station

as imt has said  the 4 ft reach is the problem

thanks to all who have replied

i really appreciate it

 

cheers

c  j

ps, i forgot to mention the Dogbone

it would be a good idea , if i had a bit more lenght

as most of it would be taken up with the curves  at each end

not leaving much scope in the middle section

this looks like the job http://www.thortrains.net/4holayg.html

Edited October 7, 2017 by RoyalMail

[Harlequin]

Hi,

 

There are lots of track plans in books and magazines that will fit into 10ft by 4ft, so you should be able to design something that works.

 

Can you use the 2-3ft at the end of the room opposite the door? That would allow an L shaped layout which might open up the possibilities a bit. And you could then slim down the main board to make it easier to reach across and give more space in the room.

 

To upload images to posts, you must click "Reply with attachments", then "Choose Files...", then after the file has uploaded (might take a few seconds or minutes depending on your connection speed) click in the post where you want the image to appear and click "Add to Post" and you'll see an "[attatchment...]" code appear.

 

[imt]

.................

this looks like the job http://www.thortrains.net/4holayg.html

If that is what you want go for it.  My question is what is it, what is its function, why is it there, where does input come from where does it go to.  As you have probably guessed i like my railways to serve a purpose, and if it's purposeless why do you shunt that wagon there and not somewhere else.  If you can identify industries etc. you can give yourself reasons for moving things about.  You need to have some idea of source and destination for some form of timetable or movements schedule - but maybe that's not your thing?

 

I would honestly suggest you keep clear of huge amounts of track - unless that's what YOU want.  This is your railway after all.

 

10 ft by 2ft is a good space - lots of people would give their eye teeth for such space.  You could get a Minories into that (look at the Minories thread). Look at http://www.carendt.com/ for small layouts.

 

If you can halve that "table" (not if it is a dining table I suppose) and put wheels on it so you could pull it forward, you could operate it from the back.  If you could have another board which you could move at right angles to the main board doring operating times you could have an "L" shape with a "fiddle yard" as Harlequin suggests.  What do you mean by table - do you have to use it?  If it is solid you'll have a problem putting wires through it to power points and signals - though I suppose that depends on what you want.  Most of us have baseboards which are easy to move and have thinner tops for holes for wires etc.

 

You need some more thoughts on your actual layout baseboard type size, location and configuration.

Edited October 8, 2017 by imt

[Guest RoyalMail]

Hi to all

just spent a few hours going through some of the suggestions from all who have replied

a big thank you to everyone for the helpful input .

Now im stuck with the 10 foot lenght , there is no way possible i can add an L shaped piece to the side , the room is just not available .

The Dogbone is out , as it would take too much space at either end , and not enough left in the middle section .{ Helix is also out }

So im going to go with a shelf layout . using the 10 foot lenght , and whatever width is needed to see what i can squeeze in. with the shelf layout , i can put it at a decent height , and it may be better all round for me .

here is what i am Thinking of , End to End with two operating turntables { one at each end } A Mail Depot  , and a Loco Servicing Depot . at one end.

Halfway up the shelf , i will add in a Small Mountain to Break the Scene between the two.

three quaters the way up , i will add a small station , then at the opposite end a Departmental Deopt

i think this is the best way to go , as it will free up space , and can move trains from one end to the other , Am i making any sense ?

The more i am looking at the 10x 4   it is way too big for the room ,

the tables i have are Baseboards { which i can dismantle and use the timber for the shelf }

so now on to a trackplan , and the width of the shelf .

keeping in mind that the Engine shed i have is the large 4 road Bachmann Scenecraft { which alone is a fair size }

i think this is the best approach and something i will be happy with in the long run .

 

cheers

c j

[The Johnster]

imt makes some good points, especially about shunting and railway movements having a meaning and purpose.  When I was a lad, and the pound was still worth fifteen shillings, I would watch a pannier tank shunting Crwys yard in Cardiff, now long gone, on the Rhymney.  This was a coal storage yard for stabling loaded wagons from the collieries up valley until the ship they were destined for was at it's berth and could be loaded.  The shunting movements looked, to an outsider, completely pointless, and as if they were just knocking wagons about for fun, but there was a specific reason for it; coal was loaded into the ships in a specific mixture from different collieries or even different seams in the same colliery, which would have different calorific values, sulpher content, and so on.

 

This is because the final customer, maybe Buenos Aires gasworks, or a factory in Bilbao, or Indian Railways, ordered it to their own specification and the mix had to be got right; hence the apparent purposeless shuffling of wagons of what looked like identical black rock to me so that they went on to the tippler in the right order.  The point of this apparently aimless rambling about a youth that should have been spent doing homework instead of watching panniers from Crwys Road bridge is that nothing moves on a railway for no reason at all. and what everybody wants to do is get the work done as quickly and easily as possible so that they can have a cup of tea.

 

If you bear this in mind when you. are designing your layout, there will purpose and reason for all of your shunting movements and you will be able to include sidings and facilities that will make it more interesting to operate.  Obvious things like a dairy siding or small factory with a loading dock, but also a goods yard with different facilities such as an end loading dock or cattle pens will need specifc traffic, which in turn will need to be stored or stabled out of the way until the space is available; planning this sort of thing will help when you come to design the yard.

 

I think you are moving in the right direction to abandon the continuous run and go for an end to end of limited width that suits the room and is easy to build and operate.  Real railway go from a place to another place, not round in circles (all right, the Circle Line does, but you know what I mean), and just having things laid out in that way will make you think in a more railway sort of way, the idea that a train occupies a section and other traffic has to wait for it to clear, that shunting has to be done in between trains, that sort of thing.  You will automatically learn about operating realistically, and learn about that side of railway work; this is the sort of thing that distinguishes a knowledgeable enthusiast from a spotter, and is very satisfying in it's own right.

[Guest RoyalMail]

Came across this excellent End to End

something like this would be excellent [ only a bit larger }

Edited October 8, 2017 by RoyalMail

[imt]

A TMD is certainly a matter of choice.  A friend has something similar, and I have seen many of them.  Loco comes in, maybe gets fuelled and then stands waiting its turn.  Loco comes out of shop fuels up and waits to go out on line on test. First loco moves out.  A loco which has failed is towed in. etc.  For my money absolutely boring.  My friend really gets his kicks out of detailing inside and outside of shops, sheds etc. fitting lights and so on.  Not much operation there to my mind.  But each to his own.

 

If that's what you like there are plenty examples in threads on this site and in every modelling magazine.  They are without exception beautiful examples of the modellers art.  I prefer operations to timetables rakes of coaches, freight trains to move about and shunt.  Each to his own.

 

You need to decide what you want!  Once we know we might be able to help further ...............

[TonyMay]

Piano type layouts with the FY at the back are great if you are stood at the back and your audience is at the front - which is why they often appear at exhibitions.  For home use however they often aren't that practical because it's gonna be up against a wall.

 

I would have only 1 FY, as this gives (1) more operational interest and (2) - also I would put this on the left hand end so that the right hand end is what guests see, and you can stand at the LH end and operate the FY.

 

If you have a 4' table but only limit yourself to 2' to 3' of space this gives you room for a traverser-type FY which will save you space as it doesn't have any points.

 

As for the rest of it it's up to you.  I'd be tempted to model part of a mail depot behind a bigger station  That way you can have a train pull in but leave some of it sticking into the FY so that it appears longer than it really is.  Make sure this is the right length though so it doesn't foul your traverser.

[imt]

Just to show you what I am talking about, which of course may be of zero interest to you, I add a layout in 00 gauge drawn in AnyRail.  It's an attempt to copy Harlequin's superb design in his "Using illustration software" thread in the same area as this thread. See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126780-layout-design-in-illustration-software/

This could be worked up into a fantastically detailed  model (if that's what you want) and give plenty of operating pleasure.

 

I have taken your 10 by 4 feet and said I don't want all of that - so the used (non-shaded) area is 18" wide on all sides.  You could stick a little fillet in at A to support the head shunt if it's too close to the edge.You also need a fiddle yard following on from B.  I have mine on top of a table used for other things, there are levelling feet for their obvious purpose and to protect the table.  You could have a chest of drawers or have it as one shelf of a bookcase if that's what is there.  How you design the fiddle yard will depend on available length and width.  The station will easily deal with 4 coach trains with a loco at each end (one pulls the train in another comes from the little siding at the left to pull it out again.  in which case you would need a 4ft fiddle yard - which as I say does not have to be permanent but only erected when you are playing (sorry operating your railway!).

 

Harlequin's "goods yard could be a parcels/mail depot and an engineering siding.  Mix to taste?

 

Hope that helps a bit!

Bristol Park Street.pdf

Edited October 12, 2017 by imt

[Joseph_Pestell]

I would suggest that you build on two levels, but separated. Inclines between the two would eat up space.

 

The lower level can be a very simple "roundy-roundy" with a central operating well and the tight bends at each end hidden with scenery. You might or might not want to put in a small station to add a bit of operational and scenic interest e.g. bus/rail interchange.

 

Then, at a higher level, either above the fiddle yard or mainly over the curves at each end (or both) the TMD and a PW depot for your "Dutch" stock.

 

Edit: To add to this, I developed a design a few years back for an N gauge layout on a door. It had a roundy-roundy main line at the lower level and an out-and-back more local/suburban line at the higher level. The neat bit was that the upper fiddle yard doubled up as a runround for freight trains. Of course, a 2m door in N is equivalent to 13 foot in 00, so it would be a bit compact but a small PW depot/TMD might make it possible.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Joseph_Pestell

[rob D2]

I have a 10 ' plank ,

There's plenty of options.

 

I'd go for a small res depotwith half length shed, hiding some engineers sidings for the Dutch stuff....