Trix Trans-Pennine 124

[Prometheus]

I have recently acquired a blue and grey 124 set which requires restoration. I plan to repaint in green, but which green? Brunswick, or an approximate shade of?

 

Thanks

 

Tony

[sagaguy]

If i were repainting one of my units,i would use this Railmatch colour,BR diesel multiple unit green.Aerosol or brushing enamel.

 

                   https://www.howesmodels.co.uk/product/BR%20Later%20Multiple%20Unit%20Green%20(15ml%20enamel)

 

They are a really nice model,i have 2 5car units.

                       Ray

 

                                

 

[Golden Fleece 30]

It is more of a personal choice Tony. I have used the one Ray mentions but to me it is too dark. I prefer Precision BR loco green. It is the same with my diesels. That is my choice though and nothing more.

 

At one time I think the DMU's and diesels were steam loco green but then got their own shades, EMU's had lighter and darker variations and if you saw one in real life can you remember what it actually was? Also was it new or faded? There are so many "posibilities" it is your choice. I go with what my mind tries to tell me what I saw all those years ago.

 

What I would like on my set are the Trans-Pennine coach boards that were fitted to the green sets. These were along the lines of an orange background, black italic letters and some unusual shaped "arrows" at either end.

 

Garry

ps don't forget also everyone's eyes can see the same colour in different hues.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[BernardTPM]

At one time I think the DMU's and diesels were steam loco green but then got their own shades, EMU's had lighter and darker variations and if you saw one in real life can you remember what it actually was? Also was it new or faded?

More the other way round. The first BR 1949 colour scheme used Malachite green for Multiple Units (largely EMU then - the GWR railcars were, of course, decked out in Crimson/Cream until the late '50s when some of the 1940s units were painted green). The lighter shade was used on Derby Lightweights and early Modernisation Plan DMUs but a darker green came in the later 1950s. The Trans Pennines would have been in the darker colour as they're quite a late build.

The blue/grey that Trix modelled was an early (and quite rare) version. The yellow end on the standard blue/grey scheme only covered the cab end, not the door That was in plain blue. The light grey area round the main windows is the same.

Edited October 9, 2017 by BernardTPM

[Golden Fleece 30]

Also, the Trans-Pennine units were 6 cars long not just 5.  Driver, corridor/open, corridor brake, buffet, corridor/open, driver.   I think the corridor/open were both styles in the one vehicle.  By the time Blue and Grey came out I don't know if the units were reduced to 5 cars but when I travelled on them in green livery they were 6 cars long.

 

Garry

[Prometheus]

As always, thank you all for prompt and informed comment - it is genuinely appreciated.

 

With regard to the length of the rake and the comparative scarcity of the product I suppose I am where I am really. I was able to acquire five cars and two additional front and rear bodies from a friendly trader for £50. The leading car runs well enough for something that hasn't seen power for many years but it does have a slight wobble however. All really do need some cosmetic attention though and it is a green set that, ideally, I'd like. The middle three cars [which are Trix but may also be inaccurate for a prototypical rake, I'm uncertain] also need rewheeling and reglazing, and glued-in passengers removed [or at least repositioned]. Is flush glaze available anywhere?

 

Once again, thanks so much for your comments.

 

Tony

[Golden Fleece 30]

I think the real intermediate cars were slightly different and built for the TP units but as with most models a compromise was made and Trix's Mk1's were used and painted to match the drivers.

 

The wobble may be due to the tyres on the driving wheels perishing or going hard, or, are they missing?

 

Although a smaller scale than 00 it is a nice model.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

It`s probably the traction tyres on the power bogie that`s giving the wobble,i get mine from the TTRCA but you have to be a member to buy.The wheels are reasonably finescale,they shouldn`t give any trouble on most tracks.I rewheeled my Trix coaches with modern Hornby coach wheels,R8096.They do run very well.

 

                    Ray

 

                                    

[roythebus]

Why replace Trix pin-point coach wheels? they are surely the best free-running wheels I've ever come across.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Why replace Trix pin-point coach wheels? they are surely the best free-running wheels I've ever come across.

I would guess it lifts them a little to get closer to normall 00 scale as the TP unit is a little small when next to other vehicles.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

Why replace Trix pin-point coach wheels? they are surely the best free-running wheels I've ever come across.

Yes, as Garry says,they bring them a little higher also they make them even more free running,i thought my baseboard was level but it wasn`t.

 

                           Ray.

[Prometheus]

Thank you for the continuing responses.

 

I'm replacing the plastic coach wheels because they are plastic, primarily and also, as said, to raise the height of the rake very slightly. They are not terribly free-running at present, too.

 

Tony

[SRman]

Yes, as Garry says,they bring them a little higher also they make them even more free running,i thought my baseboard was level but it wasn`t.

 

                           Ray.

 

I once put in some shelves and couldn't find my spirit level. A couple of Trix coaches did the job for me instead!

[Il Grifone]

Why replace Trix pin-point coach wheels? they are surely the best free-running wheels I've ever come across.

 

I believe it's because the Trix frames and (therefore the bearings) are made from a particularly slippery plastic intended for the job. They thus even beat the usual steel/brass combination. 

I have a feeling the Trix wheels are slightly undersize however. I'll have to measure a set. All mine are metal, but I assume they made the retrograde step of going plastic too.

 

EDIT

 

The wheelset I found measures 12mm across the tread about right for a 3' 2" wheel in 1:80 scale. Obviously it's undersize for a Mk I coach, but they were not alone in this.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Il Grifone

[BernardTPM]

I had two Trix coaches I both secondhand in the early '70s, a WR Brake Composite and a Pullman Kitchen First. Both had metal wheels in the Commonwealth bogies and ran very freely, but didn't look right with my mainly Tri-ang/Hornby Mk.1s.

[Signaller69]

The Trix Mk.1s are indeed very free running; I have used several as a basis for my own Class 126 DMU build (purchased secondhand very cheaply). Most had the blackened metal wheelsets, one had plastic wheels and another with shiny metal wheels and a lighting strip fitted. As I only used the bodysides/ends and roof I have several sets of wheels, bogies, bufferbeams etc spare now if you are needing to replace the odd bit .

 

Years ago I needed a Brake Composite in a rake of Mk.1s; fitting Mainline bogies/wheels made it much nearer the correct height; I found the slight reduction in length not really noticable tbh.

 

As has been said these coaches are not really correct for the Trans Pennine units but they do at least make a nice uniform rake.

 

If it is of interest, plans for the TP vehicles (class 124) can be found in book 220 in the Barrowmore Group pages here (scroll down): http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html

 

IIRC there are also books regarding livery information on that page too along with other very useful info.

 

HTH,

Martyn.

[Golden Fleece 30]

This is how I remember the Trans Pennine units.  Here is an original 6 car set in green livery at my "home" town of Selby.  Later (70's?) the Buffet cars were removed due to poor riding.

 

I understand that the units actually carried a headboard for a short while but do not remember seeing those only the distinctive coach boards which I cannot find a photo of.

 

It seems that whole units were not repainted at the same time as one photo shows a Blue and Grey vehicle with 5 green ones behind, or, possibly 2 Blue and Grey drivers with 4 green intermediate vehicles.

 

Garry

Edited October 12, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[sagaguy]

So long as you don`t intersperse 4mm coaches in the rake,the effect of a full rake of Trix Mk1s really look good hauled by my HD Crediton.

 

                  Ray.

 

                 

[sagaguy]

The Pullmans look good as well.

 

                        Ray.

 

             

[Il Grifone]

It's a pity they were made to 1:80 scale as they were certainly the best plastic Mk I R-T-R coaches. I for one didn't buy any for this reason.

About the only Trix rolling stock that was usable for 00 was the R.C.H. mineral being modelled stretched for a 17'6" underframe means it came out at about the right length in the larger scale. The same applies to the 16T steel mineral, but the Airfix kit was cheaper and produced a better result. It didn't run as well of course.

[BernardTPM]

Trix also did a Pig Iron wagon - again 16'6" in real life so their model was the right size.

[keefer]

Also, the Trans-Pennine units were 6 cars long not just 5.  Driver, corridor/open, corridor brake, buffet, corridor/open, driver.   I think the corridor/open were both styles in the one vehicle.  By the time Blue and Grey came out I don't know if the units were reduced to 5 cars but when I travelled on them in green livery they were 6 cars long.

 

Garry

 

They were formed DMC, MBS, TS, TFB, MBS, DMC.

The DMC and TS had open seating and the MBS was corridor (6 compartments). The TFB had 2 tables in the open buffet area and corridor for the 1st class seats (3 compartments)

An easyish fix for the MBS could be a BSK with 2 windows spliced in instead of the innermost double doors. the TFB is more awkward being half of an FK but with non-standard doors/windows at the buffet end.

The MBS are interesting as the only 1st gen. DMU non-driving motor vehicles  (this was more common on EMUs).

Hence a 6-car unit had 4 out of 6 cars powered, each with 2 of the more powerful 230hp BUT engines

 

Good stuff here: http://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-124/summary

[BernardTPM]

They were formed DMC, MBS, TS, TFB, MBS, DMC.

The DMC and TS had open seating and the MBS was corridor (6 compartments). The TFB had 2 tables in the open buffet area and corridor for the 1st class seats (3 compartments)

An easyish fix for the MBS could be a BSK with 2 windows spliced in instead of the innermost double doors. the TFB is more awkward being half of an FK but with non-standard doors/windows at the buffet end.

Trix did a BCK, CK and RMB so given the matching green coaches they did the expected Trix model formation would be DMC, BCK, CK, RMB, BCK, DMC. Of course, all the inner coaches would have Commonwealth bogies!

[keefer]

Indeed Bernard, i'd noticed the Trix formation in post #2 and presumed that was what they had available at the time.

Just had a thought about the CKs though, given 'Golden Fleece 30's post #5 where he mentions corridor/open both in the same coach.

The prototype CK 15000 had a unique layout of 3 corridor compartments and 4 open bays, so can anyone confirm if Trix modelled this layout? (i.e. door, toilet, 2 x 3rd compt., 1 x 1st compt., door, 2 x 3rd open bays, 2 x 1st. bays, toilet, door)

 

also with ref. to post #2 showing the yellow end including the cab doors: 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4280867639/in/album-72157603648796702/

 

(also note the BR spec brown underframe/bogies)

Edited October 13, 2017 by keefer

[Golden Fleece 30]

Indeed Bernard, i'd noticed the Trix formation in post #2 and presumed that was what they had available at the time.

Just had a thought about the CKs though, given 'Golden Fleece 30's post #5 where he mentions corridor/open both in the same coach.

The prototype CK 15000 had a unique layout of 3 corridor compartments and 4 open bays, so can anyone confirm if Trix modelled this layout? (i.e. door, toilet, 2 x 3rd compt., 1 x 1st compt., door, 2 x 3rd open bays, 2 x 1st. bays, toilet, door)

 

also with ref. to post #2 showing the yellow end including the cab doors:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4280867639/in/album-72157603648796702/

 

(also note the BR spec brown underframe/bogies)

As far as I know Trix only had 3 versions of the Mk1 coach plus a Pullman so the different styles required were not available and in those days it was the easy option to use what was to hand. It was far easier for a manufacturer to just repaint an existing coach. The only reason I mentioned corridor/open was because I knew there was something different but did not know what as the types of coaches do not interest me as such. If correct ones were made I would use them but as they weren't I was one of the happy band of modellers using available stock that at least Trix used matching colours unlike Dublo who used a slighty different shade of green for their EMU and SR suburbans.

 

These days it would be very easy to draw the correct sides and get etched but then difficult to match the Trix paint and I would not want to repaint the lovely finish of the driving cars.

 

If any company made it now no doubt all six coaches would be correct but at what price? The Blue Pullmans are around £600 and a 4 car EMU UNPOWERED set has just come out at nearly £300.

 

I bought my 6 car set new in the 70's for under £10 but did have to pay about £80 for a genuine green 3-rail 2 car set which is not the same as the 2 rail set up with a centre pick-up added. It did save having to 3-rail my initial set.

 

Garry

Edited October 14, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30