Freight workings in the Swansea area circa 1970

[Richard_A]

I'm struggling to find out much information on this topic, most of the information I find is centered on the Cardiff/ Newport area and their associated valleys.

 

I'd appreciate and info on traffic flows or pointers to books etc.

[John_Miles]

I can only answer with respect to the Swansea Vale Railway. Most of the traffic had ceased. Imperial Smelting at Llansamlet closed in 1971 so traffic north of Upper Bank notionally ceased at that time but I can remember seeing lines of 16 ton mineral wagons at Six Pit in the early 1980s. On the line to Morriston, there were up to 3 trains per day to the scrap yards, worked by class 37 or 08 shunters.

[Mark Saunders]

 

I can only answer with respect to the Swansea Vale Railway. Most of the traffic had ceased. Imperial Smelting at Llansamlet closed in 1971 

 

 

The ISC plant had its own fleet of  BR iron ore tipplers for the Zinc Oxide traffic in the ISC company livery but these appear too be very camera shy!

 

Mark Saunders

[Richard_A]

Thanks chaps. Seems like there was a huge contraction around this period then

[br2975]

I'm struggling to find out much information on this topic, most of the information I find is centered on the Cardiff/ Newport area and their associated valleys.

 

I'd appreciate and info on traffic flows or pointers to books etc.

 

Working Time Tables (WTT) for the years May 1969- May1970 and May 1970- May1971 are the place to start.

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You'll probably need the following for starters;

(i) Swindon and Awre Junction to Swansea

and

(ii) Swansea and West Wales

 

However, a lot of the local traffic (e.g. Margam - Tondu valleys, Neath area, Pantyffynno, GCG, Carmarthen branches and others) would be 'trip' workings, which may well fall into local trip diagram books.

 

In the late 60s BR (WR) undertook a drastic restructuring of South Wales freight working (South Wales was still moving some 19 million tons of the black stuff each year, around 75%-80% of which moved solely within the South Wales area.

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There was an increasing market for anthracite and household coal across the border in 'England'

 

One of the proposals adopted was that empty minerals returning to South Wales would avoid STJ and go straight to either East Usk Junction yard or Jersey Marine from where they would be distributed as and when required to local pits.

 

Local coal trip workings would be diagrammed for Cl.37 haulage e.g. Aberpergwm, Blaengwrach or Abernant to Jersey Marine where the trains would be marshalled for onward movement by 'mainline' power e'g' Cl.47 or Cl.52 (and occasionally a Hymek). This was to concentrate the reliable Cl.37s locally and also brought on better crew diagramming, preventing the knock-on effect of delayed trains.

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Other 'trips' such as export coal for Swansea Docks would generally be worked from pit to Jersey Marine / Burrows by a Cl.37 and then tripped to the dockside tips by  one of the pilots (Cl.08).

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Some trips were quite localised e.g. Jersey Marine - Llantrisant - Margam (coke for BSC ?) 

 

Jersey Marine is also 'sub divided' in some WTTs where you may see reference to "Swansea No.1 Set" as a destination.

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Here, the relevant Cook trackplan book (Swansea Docks to Neath IIRC) will help you out.

 

I have some South Wales WTTs for your period, and a full set for Swindon / Awre Jct - Swansea, Cardiff Branches, Swansea & West Wales for a little later, namely 1971-1972.

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Let me know if I can assist in any way ?

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Brian R

Edited October 9, 2017 by br2975

[The Stationmaster]

Depends what you mean by 'Swansea area' as there was still quite a  lot of freight over the District Line at that time, Hafod Yard was still working full loads wise, there were a couple of regular coal flows onto the docks plus various other trains to/from Jersey Marine, East Depot was still very much a fuunctioning traincrew depot and stabling point, and so on.

[Richard_A]

Thanks again.

 

Mike, regarding the Swansea area as I'm still trying to figure out where everything was/went, I would like to know as much as possible, as I'm fascinated by how much has disappeared and would eventually like to build a model on the are.

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks again.

 

Mike, regarding the Swansea area as I'm still trying to figure out where everything was/went, I would like to know as much as possible, as I'm fascinated by how much has disappeared and would eventually like to build a model on the are.

 

Depends really which part you want to concentrate on.  Hafod yard, just outside High Street station was still a working full loads depot in late 1973 when I was Asst AM at Swansea but that was really the only freight activity near High St by then.  The real freight activity was on the District Line with some collieries still working into the '70s plus Llandarcy refinery, the through freights to & from West wales, the steel coil trains from Port Talbot to Trostre and Velindre plus outbound timnplate from there and Llandeilo Jcn yard still working.

 

Most of the Swansea freight activity was over the other side at Jersey Marine, Burrows, Kings Dock Jcn with  East Depot supplying engines and men but you're then getting several miles away from High St of course,  If you want to concentrate solely on freight then that is the area to think about  - a sort of shrunken version of Jersey Marine yard with trains coming and going at both ends including some reversing might make quite an interesting layout.

[Richard_A]

Thanks again. Trying to pin down a specific plan is tough as so much has changed and it's so intriguing to me as to where it all was.

 

I assume most of the freight at Swansea burrows and jersey marine would have been coal for export via the docks.

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks again. Trying to pin down a specific plan is tough as so much has changed and it's so intriguing to me as to where it all was.

 

I assume most of the freight at Swansea burrows and jersey marine would have been coal for export via the docks.

 

Stuff for the docks - coal and tinplate going out plus probably still some timber coming in occasionally in 1970.  Pop 'Swansea Kings Dock Junction' into google and see what you get - you might be amazed at how much railway there was still there in the 1980s.

[hmrspaul]

Although I used to pass through Swansea in 1970 I didn't  really get back there for a decade. Searching for Swansea on my site only finds some of what I have, but it is still an incredibly varied selection of stock! The Docks were visited by several of us - photo permits were readily available - and Marcrofts works had an EM gauge modeller as the manager (If you are on here, Hi and thanks for the various visits!).

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=swansea

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/swanseadock

 

And Llandarcy is http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bpllandarcyrefinery

 

Paul

Edited October 10, 2017 by hmrspaul

[Richard_A]

Brilliant thanks again

[Richard_A]

There is quite a selection of wagons, I assume that in the late 60's there would be a pretty even mix between be and pre nationalisation ones?

[Richard_A]

Am I correct in thinking that the boplate wagons, had the coils laid over the bogies?

[br2975]

Am I correct in thinking that the boplate wagons, had the coils laid over the bogies?

Generally, yes, two coils, loaded 'eye to the sky', one over each bogie.

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Some wagons were later fitted with a wooden cradle and baulks over each bogie, to allow the coils to be carried 'gun barrel' style with the hollow axis lengthwise along the wagon.

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Although the photo shows a bogie bolster closest to the camera, the method of loading was similar.

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Photo c/o Neath & Port Talbot Public Libraries.

 

Brian R

Edited October 13, 2017 by br2975

[br2975]

There is quite a selection of wagons, I assume that in the late 60's there would be a pretty even mix between be and pre nationalisation ones?

 

Whilst there were a reasonably large, but diminishing number of pre-nationalisation wagons still in use at that time, it depended upon the use to which they were put.

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In the Swansea, and South Wales area, BR had seen fit to introduce large numbers of new steel 'slab' and  'coil' wagons during the late 1950s and early 1960s.

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Many of the earlier post nationalisation BR designs e.g. 'Boplate' - 'Bogie Bolster' - 'Plate' were either straight lifts of, or based upon, pre-nationalisation designs.

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Pre-nationalisation 'Shocvans' (tinplate traffic) and 'Banana Vans' (banana traffic, and also as fitted head on coal trains) spring to mind, as well as pre-nationalisation and former private owner 'pools' (16t mineral wagons).

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There were also BR conversions of pre-nationalisation stock to suit new traffic flows e.g. GWR & S.R. opens used alongside BR built opens in coil traffic from Ebbw Vale; former S.R. (and other) opens used in wire coil traffic from GKN Cardiff.

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Brian R

[Richard_A]

Thank you again Brian.

[Richard_A]

Are there any books which has details of a the wagons in detail?

[br2975]

For your era, I'd start with:-

(i)   "An illustrated history of BR wagons, Vo.1" - Bartlett, Larkin & Mann (sadly, there never was a Vol.2)

(ii)  "Wagons of the early British railways era 1948-1954" - David Larkin

(iii) "Wagons of the middle British railways era 1955-1962"- David Larkin

(iv) "Wagons of the late British railways era 1962-1968"- David Larkin

(v) "Working Wagons Vo.1 1968-1937"- David Larkin

(vi) "British Railways wagons, their loads and loading" - Grant & Taylor

(vii) "Pre-nationalisation freight wagons on British Railways, a pictorial survey" - Larkin

(viii) "B.R. Standard freight wagons, a pictorial survey" - Larkin

(ix) "Private Owner freight wagons on British Railways, a pictorial survey" - Larkin

 

There are several more

 

Brian R

[Richard_A]

Thanks again, I'm hoping to make the Cardiff show, if so I'll by you a beer.

[br2975]

Thanks again, I'm hoping to make the Cardiff show, if so I'll by you a beer.

 I should be there both days, on or around my brother Paul's  "Blue Circle Quarry".

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Altho' I won't be there until about midday Saturday, due to another commitment.

 

Drop by and chew the fat. 

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Brian R

[hmrspaul]

Am I correct in thinking that the boplate wagons, had the coils laid over the bogies?

http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brplatevacuum/e1e5241b4

 

http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brplatevacuum/e14007466

 

Paul

[Richard_A]

Ahh, should have looked properly.

[br2975]

 

I can only answer with respect to the Swansea Vale Railway. Most of the traffic had ceased. Imperial Smelting at Llansamlet closed in 1971 so traffic north of Upper Bank notionally ceased at that time but I can remember seeing lines of 16 ton mineral wagons at Six Pit in the early 1980s. On the line to Morriston, there were up to 3 trains per day to the scrap yards, worked by class 37 or 08 shunters.

 

 

D3827 on the Morriston Branch, 13th January, 1971.

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Note the first three Iron Ore tipplers contain ingot moulds, which I suspect were either coming from or going to the BSC Landore Foundry.

 

Photographer unknown.

[br2975]

A few links from the RCTS Mystery Photos page.

 

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?srch=G-031&serial=3&img=G-031-15

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https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?srch=G-031&img=G-031-27&serial=4

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https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?srch=G-031&img=G-031-28&serial=5

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Brian R