Freight workings in the Swansea area circa 1970

[br2975]

Swansea Eastern Depot, I'd say circa 1969-1970.

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Note how every Cl.37 has its own brake van.

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Again photographer unknown.

[Clearwater]

This site http://www.swanseadocks.co.uk/index.htm is pretty useful of the history of the docks and has a specific rail section.

 

David

[Fat Controller]

D3827 on the Morriston Branch, 13th January, 1971.

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Note the first three Iron Ore tipplers contain ingot moulds, which I suspect were either coming from or going to the BSC Landore Foundry.

 

Photographer unknown.

Brought back a few memories there, Brian. The connection for BSC Landore trailed in the Morriston direction, so wagons were dropped off and picked up on the outward trip from Eastern Depot. Apart from the tipplers shown, there were Warflats and Flat WLL (six-axle tank-carrying wagons) for the largest moulds, destined for Ravenscraig and Llanwern.

The empty minerals would probably have come from Landore, having brought in scrap- they would probably have worked to one of the two scrap yards towards Morriston for re-loading.

The Vanfits at the rear would be destined for the former Duffryn tinplate works at Morriston, which was used as a 'buffer store' for tinplate from Trostre, Velindre and Ebbw Vale for shipping from Swansea. Before starting at Landore, dad had worked for his family's building and civil engineering firm, which did the Duffryn conversion, along with others at Burry Works (Llanelly), King's Dock and Elba (the latter both near Swansea Docks). The loading platform at Duffryn had been specified to give a level loading surface in conjunction with sliding-door Palvans and Vanwides; these were rarely available, so inbound loaded swing-door vans had to stop short, have the doors opened, then be propelled into the platform. The reverse procedure applied to out-bound loaded vans.

Mike mentioned Hafod Yard; at the time in question, Bass beer arrived in 'Tube' wagons, some of which carried 'Bass' nameboards. Aluminium slab arrived in another sort of Tube, with full drop-sides, for onward movement to Waunarllwyd and Swansea Docks. There was also some residual container traffic, and steel coil for Signode Banding; this came from Scotland.

Other traffic west of Swansea included:

scrap tinplate to Bachelor-Robinson in Llanelli (with the detinned scrap being baled and sent to BSC Landore) 

Inbound scrap and fuel oil to Duport's Steelworks at Llanelli, with block trains of 4" bar outwards; this travelled on Twin-Bolsters, then later on Bolster Es. Very occasionally, there were German and Belgian ferry wagons with export bar. The fuel oil travelled in old-style unbraked tanks until the late 1960s; these were then cut in half for use as internal scrap carriers.

Carmarthen, and Haverfordwest, received cement in Presflos

There was military traffic, both from goods yards at Carmarthen and Haverfordwest, and from MoD depots at Llangennech, Trecwn, Pembroke Dock and Milford Haven.

Milford despatched fish vans, and Fishguard, perishable traffic from Ireland, until the early 1970s.

There were seasonal trains of fertiliser and animal feed to various destinations, including Newcastle Emlyn and Lampeter; these were a mixture of pre-Nationalisation and BR vans.

[The Stationmaster]

Also fertiliser to Carmarthen Junction Brian

[Fat Controller]

Also fertiliser to Carmarthen Junction Brian

One I'd forgotten, Mike, though I can't think I ever saw the working. 

Carmarthen had two separate goods yards. The one that extended from the station towards Carmarthen Junction was built on the site of the old GWR shed, and dealt in cement, fertiliser and things like pipes for the various pipelines that would carry petroleum products eastwards. The other yard had belonged to the L&NWR, and was accessed from the line towards Newcastle Emlyn; it housed the coal depot, and unloading facilities for things like military vehicles and farm machinery.

[br2975]

 

The Vanfits at the rear would be destined for the former Duffryn tinplate works at Morriston, which was used as a 'buffer store' for tinplate from Trostre, Velindre and Ebbw Vale for shipping from Swansea. Before starting at Landore, dad had worked for his family's building and civil engineering firm, which did the Duffryn conversion, along with others at Burry Works (Llanelly), King's Dock and Elba (the latter both near Swansea Docks).

 

The loading platform at Duffryn had been specified to give a level loading surface in conjunction with sliding-door Palvans and Vanwides; these were rarely available, so inbound loaded swing-door vans had to stop short, have the doors opened, then be propelled into the platform. The reverse procedure applied to out-bound loaded vans.

 

 

I never knew this.

 

So the Duffryn Works (shown in the RCTS photos above ?) ........

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?srch=G-031&img=G-031-28&serial=5

...........was a glorified storage depot in later years ?

 

I'll have to get out my copy of Tony Cook's track plans and layouts for the ex-M.R. Swansea Vale Branch; it appears from the link above the former station area was used as the run around, and the vans propelled alongside the 'wiggly tin' unloading bay, which looks somewhat improbable.......if it were added to a model.

 

Brian W, do you know where I can find a photo, or dimensions of a Tinplate 'basis / basic box' ? (tried the tome "Twenty by Fourteen" without success) - would possibly make a 'different' traffic on the slowly evolving "Twll Cach Exchange Sidings" i.e. vans in, vans out.

.

Brian R.

Edited October 16, 2017 by br2975

[Fat Controller]

I never knew this.

 

So the Duffryn Works (shown in the RCTS photos above ?) ........

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?srch=G-031&img=G-031-28&serial=5

...........was a glorified storage depot in later years ?

 

I'll have to get out my copy of Tony Cook's track plans and layouts for the ex-M.R. Swansea Vale Branch; it appears from the link above the former station area was used as the run around, and the vans propelled alongside the 'wiggly tin' unloading bay, which looks somewhat improbable.......if it were added to a model.

 

Brian W, do you know where I can find a photo, or dimensions of a Tinplate 'basis / basic box' ? (tried the tome "Twenty by Fourteen" without success) - would possibly make a 'different' traffic on the slowly evolving "Twll Cach Exchange Sidings" i.e. vans in, vans out.

.

Brian R.

No idea about dimensions, except that they seemed to be about the same 'footprint' as the Bachmann stillage. I'll ask on the Llanelli History Facebook site, just in case.

[Richard_A]

I'm really glad I asked this question now ,as this info is really interesting.

 

Thank you all.

 

PS what would the fertilizer be carried in?

 

I'm assuming palvans but I'm no doubt wrong.

[Fat Controller]

I'm really glad I asked this question now ,as this info is really interesting.

 

Thank you all.

 

PS what would the fertilizer be carried in?

 

I'm assuming palvans but I'm no doubt wrong.

The fertiliser that Mike mentioned was in 'Shellstar', later UKF, bogie pallet vans; Lima used to do a reasonable model of the UKF ones, albeit with strange bogies.

The seasonal traffic was in a mixture of BR and 'Big 4' ventilated vans, along with Fruit vans and other oddballs; I even saw a very dirty Insulated Meat Van once. At the various stations served by the seasonal trains, 'hand-balling' was the order of the day; forklifts were for soft city slickers.

[br2975]

I'm really glad I asked this question now ,as this info is really interesting.

 

Thank you all.

 

PS what would the fertilizer be carried in?

 

I'm assuming palvans but I'm no doubt wrong.

In your time frame (1970-1971) the working was;

6V35 1722/1822 SO Ince & Elton - Carmarthen, which was staged somewhere, not arriving at Carmarthen until about 0500 Monday.

6M54 17:45 MO Carmarthen - Ince & Elton.

 

As Brian W says, this was an airbraked, company train, which ran on behalf of Shellstar (later UK Fertilisers or UKF), using a fleet of curtain sided bogie pallet vans built 1968 by Gloucester RC&W, and augmented from 1971 with a further 18 similar wagons built by BR at Ashford, but with cupboard doors.

 

The vans were to carry 48 tons on 16 pallets. 3 tons per pallet is quite a weight (to my mind).

 

I have no clear recollection of the working as it passed through Cardiff at unsociable hours (well unsociable for me !).

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Brian R

[Richard_A]

Thanks again,

 

Looking at motive power, I best get buying ee type 3s, brush type 4s, along with a few westerns and htmeks by the looks of it

[hmrspaul]

In your time frame (1970-1971) the working was;

6V35 1722/1822 SO Ince & Elton - Carmarthen, which was staged somewhere, not arriving at Carmarthen until about 0500 Monday.

6M54 17:45 MO Carmarthen - Ince & Elton.

 

As Brian W says, this was an airbraked, company train, which ran on behalf of Shellstar (later UK Fertilisers or UKF), using a fleet of curtain sided bogie pallet vans built 1968 by Gloucester RC&W, and augmented from 1971 with a further 18 similar wagons built by BR at Ashford, but with cupboard doors.

 

The vans were to carry 48 tons on 16 pallets. 3 tons per pallet is quite a weight (to my mind).

 

I have no clear recollection of the working as it passed through Cardiff at unsociable hours (well unsociable for me !).

.

Brian R

As here. Which includes a train at STJ in late days which may have been heading towards Carmarthenshire.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ukfvan

 

Paul

Edited October 16, 2017 by hmrspaul

[br2975]

An undated shot of D3606 at Swansea Eastern Depot - a nice capture from a 'well known online auction site'.

.

Brian R

[Fat Controller]

Thanks again,

 

Looking at motive power, I best get buying ee type 3s, brush type 4s, along with a few westerns and htmeks by the looks of it

You can never have too many 'six-eighters'. They mainly worked the various mineral and steel trains, but also worked the sleeper/postal train.

Brush Type 4s were normally to be seen on the oil trains from Milford Haven, whilst Westerns covered milk and parcels turns and Hymeks did the 'fitted freights' from the west. Llandeilo Junction used to have a daily train to Whitemoor, which saw 'six-seveners' and 'Peaks' on occasion; initially, this was a vac-braked train, but it became the second route on what was to become the Speedlink network, with tinplate from Trostre to Wisbech being the core traffic.

[br2975]

Traffic that passed through Swansea, regularly bringing a 'Peak' (Cl.45/46) to the area.................. billet traffic from Llanelly O.C.C. (Old Castle Crossing) for the West Midlands.
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The first photo (mine) is a typical Kodak Instamatic effort and shows a Cl.45 hauled raft of loaded Bogie Bolster E wagons on the western outskirts of Cardiff near St. Fagans L.C. circa 1971/72
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The second photo was taken by Keith Morris and shows (D)193 at Llanelly, 29th August 1972.
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Brian R

[Fat Controller]

The destination for the 4" billet from Duport's was Great Bridge steel terminal. Prior to the Bolster Es, Twin-Bolsters were used. The train was worked from Old Castle Crossing to Llandeilo Jct by an 08, without a brake van.

[br2975]

Who remembers the days of bulk oil workings ?

 

From my the 1971-1972 WTT I have identified the following workings from / through or to the Swansea and West Wales area  –

 

UP

 

6M33 1715 Hebrandston – Shrewsbury & 6V18 0240 MX  Shrewsbury – Hebrandston both via the North & West.  * both shown as discontinued from 03/05/1971

 

6M37 2100 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP

 

6M38 0600 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP

 

6M39 1840 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP  * shown as ‘suspended’ – delete entries from 03/05/1971,   Outward working of 6V83

 

6M40 0335 MX Llandarcy – Rowley Regis, Witton, Wednesbury or Spring Vale. & 6V79 1444 Witton, 1454 Spring Vale, 1506 Wednesbury or 1539 Rowley Regis – Llandarcy BP

 

6M41 1140 Llandarcy – Rowley Regis BP

 

6M49 0955 WO Waterston – Albion Gulf ‘Special’ (via North & West)

 

6M50 1510 Waterston – Albion Gulf via North & West

 

6M51 0500 Waterston – Kingsbury & 0052 WO Kingsbury – Waterston Gulf

 

6M52 2025 MX Waterston – Albion Gulf

 

6M53 0048 MX Waterston – Albion Gulf

 

DOWN

 

6V38 1350 Rowley Regis – Llandarcy BP

 

6V64 0230 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf   * amended to 02:10 MX from 04/05/1971

 

6V70 1215 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf

 

6V83 0230 MX Rowley Regis – Llandarcy, BP  * shown as ‘suspended’ – delete entries from 04/05/1971,  Return working of 6M39            

 

6V85 1925 MX Rowley Regis – Llandarcy, BP

 

6V88 0715 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf (via North & West)

 

6V90 0445 MX Rowley Regis – Llandarcy, BP

 

6V92 2112 MX Albion – Waterston, Gulf (via the North & West)

 

Power was either Cl.37s aka 'six-eighters' in pairs, or Cl.47s 'Brushes'.

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Brian R

[The Stationmaster]

6M50, the train that will live in infamy.  One day it got very heavily delayed by something and was put-off somewhere (Hereford I think) ready to continue the following day.  So the next day there were two 6M50s heading for Albion terminal and rather logically i suppose yesterday's train got there a bit before today's train.  However the terminal thought that when the train arrived it was actually today's train and not yesterday's and started to unload it on that basis - but it was not only yesterday's train but was also carrying different product from today's train and nobody at Albion had bothered to check the wagon numbers.  

 

You can guess the rest but fortunately they'd only unloaded about 10 tons of the wrong product before they realised what was happening - oops.

[Richard_A]

Would the bulk llandarcy trains, be under form rakes of TTA or 100t tankers? Photos of this era I'm struggling to find.

 

Also regarding cement and fertilizer trains to Carmarthen, would they be bulk trains or mixed?

[Fat Controller]

Would the bulk llandarcy trains, be under form rakes of TTA or 100t tankers? Photos of this era I'm struggling to find.

 

Also regarding cement and fertilizer trains to Carmarthen, would they be bulk trains or mixed?

Not sure of the Llandarcy trains.

Cement was carried in vac-braked Presflos in mixed freights; perhaps half-a-dozen wagons. The fertiliser trains were block workings.

[Richard_A]

Thank you very much. I don't suppose you know how many fertilizer wagons there were?

[Fat Controller]

Thank you very much. I don't suppose you know how many fertilizer wagons there were?

I think the UKF trains were formed of eleven or twelve bogie wagons, giving a gross weight of about 950t. This seemed to be the length of train for most of their services.

[The Johnster]

Would the bulk llandarcy trains, be under form rakes of TTA or 100t tankers? Photos of this era I'm struggling to find.

 

Also regarding cement and fertilizer trains to Carmarthen, would they be bulk trains or mixed?

 

Llandarcy sent out traffic in 100 ton and 45 ton tanks, some of the latter still being vac braked.  I cannot now remember if the 45 ton tanks carried different product to the 100 ton air braked bogies; all were fully fitted class 6 and worked almost exclusively by class 47s.

[Fat Controller]

Llandarcy sent out traffic in 100 ton and 45 ton tanks, some of the latter still being vac braked.  I cannot now remember if the 45 ton tanks carried different product to the 100 ton air braked bogies; all were fully fitted class 6 and worked almost exclusively by class 47s.

The 100t tanks were designed such that the centres of loading hatches and unloading valves were the same as two 45t tanks coupled together; thus they could, and did, work in mixed formations.

[Richard_A]

Thanks again chaps.

 

So would the "airfix kit" tanks be included in mixed freights if necessary?

 

Trying to figure what sort of models I might need for any layout should I build obe