Freight workings in the Swansea area circa 1970

[Fat Controller]

Thanks again chaps.

 

So would the "airfix kit" tanks be included in mixed freights if necessary?

 

Trying to figure what sort of models I might need for any layout should I build obe

 

In later days, they, or at least similar vehicles would have been- there was a small oil terminal at the Up end of Haverfordwest station which received its (Shell-Mex- BP) tanks as part of the daily freight to Milford Haven. Likewise, Duport's works at Llanelli received unfitted 14t tanks of heavy fuel oil via the local trip into the late 1960s.

Don't forget,also, that tank wagons were overhauled at works in Swansea and Burry Port, and would be conveyed to and from such visits in ordinary freights. 

[Richard_A]

Thank you.

[Richard_A]

Regarding freight to the ford plant on Fabian way, would that have been in the early airbrakes stock, or did they use similar wagons as the Dagenham plant?

[br2975]

Regarding freight to the ford plant on Fabian way, would that have been in the early airbrakes stock, or did they use similar wagons as the Dagenham plant?

There was a service between both plants, which I believe was shown in the WTT as "Coy. - AIR" i.e. air braked, company train.

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I believe it was operated using 'Ford' Palvans, but will need to check on both counts.

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Unusually, there was a company train for Ford between Dagenham and Swansea; yet the 'Steel Liner' service (running during the same period) only ran from South Wales to Park Royal, where the load was transferred to road for the onward delivery to Dagenham. 

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Brian R

Edited October 19, 2017 by br2975

[br2975]

Working timetables during your chosen period included the following services which would have passed through Swansea.

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6E53 15:43 MX Llandilo Jnc. - Whitemoor (March). For Wisbech ???

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6M82 03:45 Llandilo Jnc. - Winson Green. At STJ combined with traffic off (a) 14:55 ex-Ebbw Vale (b) 8C48 15:45 ex-Newport ADJ, and 7M58 17:45 ex-Cardiff

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6M83 23:10 MX Llandilo Jnc. - Langley Green

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7A07 18:15 ex-Llandilo Jnc. Which called at Briton Ferry then fed the STJ - Wolverhampton, STJ - Tinsley service at STJ, 

 

8M44 02:10 MO Jersey Marine - Northampton (or 'Q' Radyr dep. 03:40). Household coal.

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8B41 08:50 ThO 'Q' Jersey Marine - Cheltenham ( or 'Q' dep Radyr dep. 09:54). Household coal.

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Cue Brian W.

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Brian R

[br2975]

Following reorganisation in the very late 1960s Jersey Marine was used mainly for staging trainloads of empty mineral wagons returning from England usually via  Newport, East Usk Jnc.

The yard also handled traffic from/to Swansea Docks and the Swansea District.

 

It was also a reversal point for traffic from Aberpergwm & Onllwyn (N&B line) to England via STJ.

 

Local Cl.37s were replaced by Cl.47 for mainline working, therefore maintaining self-contained working for locomotives and crews on colliery services, reducing effects caused by long distance delays.

Demand for anthracite was also increasing in the late 1960s, mainly (but not solely) for household use in the Home Counties .

New quarry traffic from Craigynos on the N&B started, using iron ore tipplers, amongst other wagons. .

 

Circa 1971, and excluding local trips, some of the 'mainline' freights to and from Jersey Marine included

Arrivals (Jersey Marine) :-

8C00 00:30 MO East Usk Jcn. Arr.02:33

8C03 00:35 MX Spencer Works arr.03:01

8C04 01:00 MO Spencer Works arr.03:23

8C06 03:42 MX East Usk Jcn. Arr.

7C09 03:40 MX Bristol West Depot or 04:15 MX-Q Filton Jct.

7C21 03:45 Acton

8C23 23:05 Sun Spencer Works arr. 01:26

8C25 23:55 Sun Spencer Works arr.02:18

8C26 23:40 MO East Usk Jcn. Arr.01:49

8C27 22:15 MO East Usk Jcn. Arr.00:20

7C32 08:55 Bristol West Depot arr.

7C37 06:30 MO Southall

7C49 21:35 MX Bristol S.P.M. arr.01:26

8C60 23:00 MO East Usk Jcn. arr.01:00

Departures (Jersey Marine):-

 

8C02 23:25 MX Jersey Marine – Spencer Works arr.02:05

8F02

8E14 16:45        Jersey Marine – Temple Mills, or
          16:57       Jersey Marine – Temple Mills
          Both ‘Q’ from Radyr dep. 18:00

8O15 10:42        Jersey Marine – Hither Green or Norwood
          ‘Q’ from Radyr dep. ??:??

8M10 02:40        Jersey Marine – Willesden or Brent
          ‘Q’ from Radyr dep. 03:10         

   
8A21 02:40        Jersey Marine – Acton or West Drayton

8C32 05:30 MX Jersey Marine – Severn Tunnel Jcn. arr.07:50

8C38 02:50 MX Jersey Marine – Severn Tunnel Jcn. arr.05:10

8B41 08:50 Jersey Marine – Bristol West Depot ‘Q’ or Wapping Wharf ‘Q’ or Filton
         ‘Q’  or Cheltenham ‘Q’ ThO
         ‘Q’ from Radyr dep. ??:??    

8C43 14:50        Jersey Marine – Severn Tunnel Jcn. arr.17:10

        
8C43 21:55 MX Jersey Marine – Severn Tunnel Jcn. arr.00:20

 

8B44 13:55 Jersey Marine – Bristol West Depot or Wapping Wharf or Filton ‘Q’
          ‘Q’ from Radyr dep. 14:50

8M44 01:50 MO Jersey Marine – Bletchley
          02:10 MX Jersey Marine – West Drayton (8A44) or Bletchley (8M44)
          ‘Q’ from Radyr dep. 03:10

8O67 00:25 MO Jersey Marine – Eastleigh

          00:37 MX Jersey Marine – Eastleigh
          Both ‘Q’ from Radyr dep. 01:30

8O68 03:40 Jersey Marine – Wimbledon
          ‘Q’ from Radyr dep.04:42

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Brian R

[br2975]

From a 1970 weekend shed bash, the following were recorded on Sunday, 17th. May, 1970

 

Swansea Eastern Depot

Cl.03:- 2120, 2122,

Cl.08:- 3606, 3825, 3826, 3827, 3829, 

Cl.37:- 6600, 6882, 6924, 6944, 6954, 6956, 6973, 6979, 6986, 6992, 

 

Swansea, King's Dock Junc.

Cl.08:- 3986, 3987

 

Swansea, Landore

Cl.52:- 1000, 1003, 1013, 1030, 1032, 1033, 1034, 1055, 1060, 1061, 1063, 1065, 1068,  1069, 1070, 

Cl.47:- 1606, 1608, 1609, 1615, 1651, 1656, 1659, 1661, 1664, 1666, 1756, 

Cl.03:- 2142, 2144, 

Cl.08:- 3744, 3756, 3758, 3830, 4128, 

Cl.37:- 6887, 6889, 6931, 6932, 

Cl.35:- 7048, 7050, 7094, 

[Fat Controller]

I can confirm that the Ford trains from Swansea used the long-wheelbase Palvans.

The Llandeilo Junction- Whitemoor train conveyed traffic for Metal Box at Wisbech, and also wagons for the train ferry at Harwich; it was a vacuum-braked service that then became the second route of the 'Air-Braked Network' that preceded 'Speedlink'. The original wagons were probably Shocvans, being replaced by modified SAAs, then VCAs, and finally SPA plate wagons. The SPAs (and possibly the SAAs) had boxes to carry the wagon-sheets during the return journey. There were some Bolster Es that were modified to carry tinplate coil; not sure what service these worked on.

Brian mentions Craig-y-Nos quarry; in the mid/late 1960s, there were regular trains of boulders from there for the new breakwater at Port Talbot, using whatever Plates and Bogie Bolsters that could be scrounged.

Another, one-way, traffic to Briton Ferry were early Southern EMUs for scrapping at 'Giant's Grave'

[br2975]

Another, one-way, traffic to Briton Ferry were early Southern EMUs for scrapping at 'Giant's Grave'

 

My note books show I recorded 4-COR units at Briton ferry, waiting to enter Giant's Grave, and on another occasion passing Cardiff en-route to B.F. I recorded  M.S.J. & A. stock and even the Rolls Royce engined Cravens DMU sets.

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Brian R

[Richard_A]

This is amazing thank you both.

[br2975]

The attached image shows (D)6606 near Jersey Marine, with a Craig-y-nos  -  Llanwern working on 28th. September, 1970.

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Note that some of the tipplers carry large 'adverts' on the centre panel reading "HOBBS Quarries"

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The photographer is unknown.

[Richard_A]

Looking through the "western region in wales book", there are a few chemical trains in there around this area, apart from the llandarcy oil/petrol trains, do you have any ibfo on these at all please?

[hmrspaul]

Thanks again chaps.

 

So would the "airfix kit" tanks be included in mixed freights if necessary?

 

Trying to figure what sort of models I might need for any layout should I build obe

Yes they are an early tank, although the large fleets of them were Esso and they tended to be used in block. SMBP didn't have any of these wagons; it took them a long time to agree to update their very elderly and mixed fleet. It helped them as they didn't have too many 45ton VB ones either - most of their fleet was the bogie 100tonners and air brake 45tonners.

Paul

[Fat Controller]

Looking through the "western region in wales book", there are a few chemical trains in there around this area, apart from the llandarcy oil/petrol trains, do you have any ibfo on these at all please?

The ones that come to mind are mainly those connected to the BP plant at Baglan Bay; this received salt from Cheshire in air-braked sheeted hoppers, acetic acid from Humberside, and possibly other chemicals, and dispatched vinyl-chloride monomer to a plant at Barry Docks.

Gower Chemicals, in the old Danygraig shed building, used to receive sulphuric acid from ISC Avonmouth, and possibly other chemicals. The acid was used to 'pickle' steel before tin-plating, and replaced urine collected from pub toilets in the Llanelli area.

There were occasional wagon-loads of 'anti-knock' products from Ellesmere Port to the various oil refineries; as far as I know, this came as far as Margam in mixed freights, and was then tacked on to an empty oil train going to the refinery in question.

[hmrspaul]

The ones that come to mind are mainly those connected to the BP plant at Baglan Bay; this received salt from Cheshire in air-braked sheeted hoppers, acetic acid from Humberside, and possibly other chemicals, and dispatched vinyl-chloride monomer to a plant at Barry Docks.

Gower Chemicals, in the old Danygraig shed building, used to receive sulphuric acid from ISC Avonmouth, and possibly other chemicals. The acid was used to 'pickle' steel before tin-plating, and replaced urine collected from pub toilets in the Llanelli area.

There were occasional wagon-loads of 'anti-knock' products from Ellesmere Port to the various oil refineries; as far as I know, this came as far as Margam in mixed freights, and was then tacked on to an empty oil train going to the refinery in question.

BOC bogie gas tanks to the steelworks

 

Paul

[Richard_A]

Quite a varied set if traffic then, more reason to to model this area than I thought.

 

Best get looking for more books.

 

Thanks again

[Richard_A]

Looking at various pictures in books and online, I'm a little confused regarding the types of coal wagons used, I can spot the 16 tonners and the larger 21 ton versions, however I've seen a few trains which have wagons very similar to the pc77 parkside kit for the 21t hopper.

 

Was this the same wagon used in South wales on coal/coke traffic, or was it a slightly different one?

[Fat Controller]

Looking at various pictures in books and online, I'm a little confused regarding the types of coal wagons used, I can spot the 16 tonners and the larger 21 ton versions, however I've seen a few trains which have wagons very similar to the pc77 parkside kit for the 21t hopper.

 

Was this the same wagon used in South wales on coal/coke traffic, or was it a slightly different one?

Most trains ran with a combination of 16t and 21t 'flat-bottomed' minerals (24.5t ones saw limited use, as they were too high for most colliery screens)

21t hoppers, at least in the Western part of the coalfield, were used for the anthracite flows for London and the South East. The first I saw, in the mid-1960s were unfitted ones with large red panels lettered 'Charringtons'. These were soon followed by fitted ones branded 'House Coal Concentration' - both types were like the Parkside model. 

There was one flow that used a mixture of 21t non-end-door minerals (ex Loco-Coal from GWR, LMS and LNER) and 24.5t minerals- this was from Brynlliw Colliery, Gorseinon, to Carmarthen Bay power station at Burry Port.

[br2975]

Was this the same wagon used in South wales on coal/coke traffic, or was it a slightly different one?

 

The Coke Hopper was a different beast, which generally didn't come west of Llantrisant in block trains.

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Port Talbot / Abbey Works had its own coke oven battery, known as the Grange, which was fed by locally mined coal, and IIRC increasing imported coal..

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Coming east, there were coke oven batteries at Cwm Colliery and Coed Ely Colliery which pits were linked below ground. Their ovens produced foundry coke which went daily, via Llantrisant, to (i) Cardiff East Moors steel works,  and (ii) Lunt, Comley & Pitt, Pensnett, West Mids who distributed it around the Black Country. Llantrisant also had a a flow on alternate days to Imperial Smelting, Avonmouth which traffic also originated from the ovens at Nantgarw, which in turn fed several South Wales customers, as did the ovens at Bedwas.

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Apart from Imperial Smelting and L.C. & P. virtually all the coke produced in South Wales was used in South Wales and was carried in the standard coke hopper, until the late 70s when the acidic nature of the coke took its toll on the wagon bodies and they were gradually withdrawn, being replaced by 24.5 ton and 12 ton hoppers, which were later involved in some export coke traffic via Barry No.2 Dock..

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Of course, you may wish to move coke in a 16 tonner, the basis for which can be found in this photo by Bob Masterman, taken at Cardiff General in the mid 1960s. This is the only photo I have seen of a 16 tonner branded 'cokex' and of which I had heard nothing before seeing Bob's photo......and if you think this is a rarity, you should see many of his others from South Wales.

 

Brian R

Edited October 21, 2017 by br2975

[Richard_A]

Thanks again.

 

Just won a track plan book from Neath to Port Talbot, ordered a few mineral wagon kits, so time to start playing

[br2975]

Should you employ a flexible timescale for your layout, you could accommodate a 'nine-fiver' a handful of which survived until the end of April 1969 working trips around the Swansea (and Cardiff) area.

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The attachment shows last built, and one of the last survivors, D9555 at Felin Fran on a Mond Branch working in January 1969.

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Photographer unknown.

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Brian R

[br2975]

The Coke Hopper was a different beast, which generally didn't come west of Llantrisant in block trains.

There's always an exception ...................

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In this case, behind D6909 at Swansea Eastern Depot in April 1967 lurks a raft of 'coke hops'.

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The train behind D6909 appears to contain a rake of tipplers, but blowing up the image fails to confirm this.

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I wonder what the low sided sheeted wagons are, and what they contain ?

 

Photographer unknown

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Brian R

Edited October 24, 2017 by br2975

[Fat Controller]

There's always an exception ...................

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In this case, behind D6909 at Swansea Eastern Depot in April 1967 lurks a raft of 'coke hops'.

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The train behind D6909 appears to contain a rake of tipplers, but blowing up the image fails to confirm this.

.

I wonder what the low sided sheeted wagons are, and what they contain ?

 

Photographer unknown

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Brian R

I think the train may just have come down from the old Midland line. The tank looks very much like one of the Imperial Smelting ones that carried sulphuric acid from Llansamlet and Avonmouth. The sheeted opens possibly carried zinc ingots; there were some purpose-built wagons for this as well, based on a prototype using a 21t fitted mineral chassis, with an open-framed body. The tipplers/minerals were probably from BSC Landore and Morriston coal depot.

The coke wagons were probably carrying coke for export, or perhaps to the Smelter; the only other user of quantities of coke that far west was BSC Landore, which only used a few 21t Minerals full each week.

[Richard_A]

Thank you again!

 

Regarding timeframe, I'll no doubt be flexible as I have a d600 to finish, and an Alexander models 95er to build and it'd be a shame to not have those.

[br2975]

Thank you again!

 

Regarding timeframe, I'll no doubt be flexible as I have a d600 to finish, and an Alexander models 95er to build and it'd be a shame to not have those.

Pantyffynnon looking toward "GCG" (no one calls it Gwaun Cae Gurwen !).

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D601,D602 & D604 were transferred from Laira to Landore in August 1967. D602 made the move on 04/08/1967. D601 moved on 21/08/1967 towed to Newport by a Western, and D604 made the move on 18/09/1967.

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The W.R. had recently lost a number of Cl.37s to the NER and ScR and it was thought (mistakenly) that the Warships would make a suitable replacement.

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It was reported that they reached Llandrindod Wells on two occasions. All returned to Laira in November 1967. D601 & D602 left Landore for Laira on 22/11/1967 and were together at Bristol Bath Road on 24/11/1967.

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It appears D602 was painted in blue with a small yellow warning panel, whereas D601 & D604 were in green with a small yellow warning panel. The loco nearest the camera in this shot doesn't appear to have a light stripe along the tumblehome and has a BR arrow symbol amidships so is most likely D602.

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All were withdrawn 31/12/1967.

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D600 & D601 were sold to Woodhams Bros. Barry Dock for scrap, whilst D602/603/604 were sold to John Cashmore, Newport.

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The photo is from the RCTS Courtney Haydon collection, which I have squared up a bit.

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Brian R