Modeling the Bluebell Railway

[BluebellModeller]

I have a few questions about the next steps since it looks to me like I have the layout plan I want, bar a few small changes to the fiddle/staging yard. 

 

1. How/where do I find the appropriate roadbed? Right now I have Woodland Scenics foam roadbed- would this suffice? 

 

2. Does the staging/fiddle yard need to be installed with trackbed? I would think maybe for the sake of consistency, but since it theoretically won't be seen by anyone but me maybe I don't need to worry about it. 

 

3. With regards to the backscene/scenic divider- what material is best to use for it, and what method do I use to get the most accurate image of the Bluebell Railway? My painting skills are iffy at best, but I can't imagine any other method that would look seamless enough to pass for "real life." Thoughts? 

 

4. What ideas do you all have for the building I should use for the actual Kingscote station itself? Ulrich sent me this site (https://www.inthegreenwoodlaser.co.uk/collections), and it looks like an awesome place to find British structures. However, I haven't been able to find any station building on that site that would represent Kingscote closely enough. Is this going to be instance where I have to kit bash or scratch build? Or is there somewhere else I can look for a building that looks similar enough?

 

5. With regards to electricity- what is the best way to provide power to the layout? I'm not very familiar with any method other than just a powered rail terminal and a power pack- would I have to wire the tracks individually? I'm going to immediately rule out DCC- not something I want to worry about for my first layout. Too expensive and complicated for me! Someone earlier mentioned electronic frogs- I think this might be useful especially if I ever find that Dapol Terrier...how would I accomplish this? 

 

6. What recommendations do you all have for ballast color, undergrowth/ground cover, etc to be as accurate as possible? I have complied a folder of reference photos of the actual station itself to get an idea of the area- what ideas do you all have? 

 

I'm sure as the project progresses I will have plenty more questions. Let me know what you think about these.

I am happy to oblige, but it may take some time - I have pretty much exhausted the energy left in my body for this day.

Not a problem!! 

[Edge]

I have a few questions about the next steps since it looks to me like I have the layout plan I want, bar a few small changes to the fiddle/staging yard. 

 

1. How/where do I find the appropriate roadbed? Right now I have Woodland Scenics foam roadbed- would this suffice? 

 

2. Does the staging/fiddle yard need to be installed with trackbed? I would think maybe for the sake of consistency, but since it theoretically won't be seen by anyone but me maybe I don't need to worry about it. 

 

3. With regards to the backscene/scenic divider- what material is best to use for it, and what method do I use to get the most accurate image of the Bluebell Railway? My painting skills are iffy at best, but I can't imagine any other method that would look seamless enough to pass for "real life." Thoughts? 

 

4. What ideas do you all have for the building I should use for the actual Kingscote station itself? Ulrich sent me this site (https://www.inthegreenwoodlaser.co.uk/collections), and it looks like an awesome place to find British structures. However, I haven't been able to find any station building on that site that would represent Kingscote closely enough. Is this going to be instance where I have to kit bash or scratch build? Or is there somewhere else I can look for a building that looks similar enough?

 

5. With regards to electricity- what is the best way to provide power to the layout? I'm not very familiar with any method other than just a powered rail terminal and a power pack- would I have to wire the tracks individually? I'm going to immediately rule out DCC- not something I want to worry about for my first layout. Too expensive and complicated for me! Someone earlier mentioned electronic frogs- I think this might be useful especially if I ever find that Dapol Terrier...how would I accomplish this? 

 

6. What recommendations do you all have for ballast color, undergrowth/ground cover, etc to be as accurate as possible? I have complied a folder of reference photos of the actual station itself to get an idea of the area- what ideas do you all have? 

 

I'm sure as the project progresses I will have plenty more questions. Let me know what you think about these.

Not a problem!! 

 

1. Foam roadbed can be made to look very good. thin layers of cork ballastd with woodlands scenic ballast can also look very good. It's your personal preference really

 

2. Fiddle yard is another case of personal preference. A lot of the time its just pinned straight to the trackbed, but I've also known them to be ballasted as well. No real difference between the two

 

3. Thin modellers plywood is often used, because it can be made into smooth shapes easily

 

4. there are loads of pictures around of kingscote station - it may be worthwhile having a go at scratchbuilding it yourself, or wait for Bachmann to produce a ready to plant resin building, theyve already done sheffield park 

 

5.Power the layout in your own way, that way you can troubleshoot any problems nice and easily. Electrofrog points can be bought from peco

 

6. Ballast at the bluebell is a lightish grey colour, woodlands scenics do a modern looking ballast that looks the part to me:

 

https://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/BAL-GB/page/1

[Anglian]

The most recent design looks much better. I'd run the lie-by beyond the back scene so it is log enough to hold a train. I'm sure you can get more siding space into the fiddle yard than is currently there. If you use set track you can keep altering and extending this to meet your needs.

 

What was so good about the Bredon plan was that it packed a lot of visual and operational interest into a small space. It was very nicely modelled as well. 

[Mike Storey]

Incorrect on many fronts I'm afraid Mike

 

(a) The Bluebell only currently have 1 birdcage coach running at present - and that is from a completely different (i.e. a few feet shorter) than those 60ft versions modelled by Bachmann*. The other 3 non corridor Maunsell liveried coaches you will have seen running with the restored Birdcage brake are a LBSCR 1st and a SECR '100 seater' dating from the early 1920s, neither of which are available in RTR form

 

*The Bluebell do have a 60ft birdcage awaiting restoration though.

 

(b) The Salmon and Brown LSWR brake coach you will have seen is just that - a LSWR coach. It has never been messed round with by anyone and as such is a completely different vehicle to the recent Hornby releases. The only 'rebuilt ex LSWR' coach the railway has (no.320) is awaiting restoration, though Hornby have released it in model form this year in Malachite livery.

 

© While the railway does have a reasonably large collection of Maunsell designs, only 4 have ever been restored for public use and in recent years the quantity in service has dropped to 3 as the low window BCK (modelled by Hornby) has been withdrawn and is now awaiting overhaul. Of the other three Maunsells currently running, only 1 is made by Hornby (Open 3rd no.1336) so careful attention needs to be paid to what the Bluebell has actually got rather than assuming Hornby will be able to cover all bases here.

 

(d) The CK you mention is nearing the end of a comprehensive overhaul having been out of use for a decade or so and only one of the brakes is currently serviceable, A couple of the SOs are in service at present too .

 

Finally while the Bluebell as traditionally used BR(S) green on its Mk1s, for several years now there has been a push to outshop carriages in the Cream and Red livery (including a few that never carried this livery in BR service) so this provides further options

 

For full details of the Bleubell carrage fleet please see here http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/car_list.html.

 

Thanks for the clarifications Phil. That's the trouble with memory. I had thought 320 was the same as the one in use, but I can see the differences on closer comparison, now I have looked through your link. I actually think I was not that far off on the rest!.

 

Nonetheless, what's available as RTR is a decent approximation of what he could use to give it the flavour of the Bluebell, should he still choose to go that way, which appears uncertain, so another several minutes of our lives wasted.....

[phil-b259]

Thanks for the clarifications Phil. That's the trouble with memory. I had thought 320 was the same as the one in use, but I can see the differences on closer comparison, now I have looked through your link. I actually think I was not that far off on the rest!.

 

Nonetheless, what's available as RTR is a decent approximation of what he could use to give it the flavour of the Bluebell, should he still choose to go that way, which appears uncertain, so another several minutes of our lives wasted.....

 

You were indeed fairly close with some of your observations - but as ever the devil is in the detail.

 

As you say though, given the variety of RTR available (compared to what we had at one time - namely Collet GWR coaches with a different roof moulding masquerading as 'Maunsell coaches'), and given the proposed model is very much a case of 'inspired by' with respect to the track plan, the fact that Bachmanns birdcage stock is a bit too long for example is no big deal.

[BluebellModeller]

should he still choose to go that way, which appears uncertain, so another several minutes of our lives wasted.....

 

I haven't given the indication (I don't think) that I planned to stray away from the Bluebell as my basis, despite feedback from other members requesting I look at other options. Not sure what is meant by this...?

Edited October 16, 2017 by BluebellModeller

[Sir Madog]

I'll give a 24 hour window for any qualms regarding Ulrich's recent layout plan. If none emerge, that will be my final plan. 

 

I feel flattered that you like my design, but to be frank, it is far from being a good design. Asa others have mentioned, it is quite difficult to incorporate the platforms in a sensible length and the fiddle yard could also see some make-over.

 

The 4 by 8 baseboard imposes restraints, which makes it difficult to follow the prototype closely.. Now, if you could accommodate a 6 by 10 ft. layout, things would be a lot better. In that case, I could incorporate a curved point on the right side, a slightly wider radius and an operating pit in the middle. The staging or fiddle yard could evolve into a second station or some sort of freight facility.

 

If I were to walk in your shoes, what would I do?

 

Most likely, given, the space restraint, I´d drop the idea of modelling a prototype location and go for a more generic design, like the Bredon layout from the Peco Setrack plan book. It´s a proven design, interesting to build a has lots of character. Losely following GWR practices, it could easily be "relocated" to Southern Rlwy. territory, claiming it´s the Bluebell line.

 

But that´s only me! It is your layout and there is nothing wrong in doing what you like best!

[Edge]

Yes, I think the point that can best be made here to Blundellmodeller is summed up in the acronym IBIS I RAIL

 

I built it, so I run anything I like.

 

The layout is ultimately for you, so remember to build it for you. If you want kingscote in 8x4 then go for it

[BluebellModeller]

Hm. Well in that case let me give it some thought. I'll post an update later.

[BluebellModeller]

So, the consensus is that I should go with that Peco plan but I'm "allowed" to model it as if it were the Bluebell and run those engine on it? Sounds good to me. 

[Sir Madog]

I think that´s a good decision!

 

Try to get your hand on the July 1985 copy of the Railway Modeller magazine, in which the layout is featured.

 

All the track and points you need for this layout is avaible in a bundle from this source!

 

The price quoted includes British VAT of 20%. which you can subtract to get your US pre-tax and duty price 8if I am right).

[hayfield]

So, the consensus is that I should go with that Peco plan but I'm "allowed" to model it as if it were the Bluebell and run those engine on it? Sounds good to me. 

 

Its your model railway and using set track is a good idea as it can easily be reused if you decide to alter the track plan, purists will advise you differently, I and others will recommend that you have chosen a great method for a first layout, just enjoy the direction this layout takes you as your interests develop and as new skills are learnt 

[Anglian]

I think it would be perfect solution. Nothing stopping you stretching the design slightly as you have a bit more space than the original. IIRC the original design had a point running a line off the board in the fiddle yard. This was done in case the layout was expanded but it might allow you to add a temporary fiddle yard for operating sessions depending on the way the layout fits into the room.

 

As I'm sure you know Sheffield Park station buildings are available as resin models although it's quite a large model. Horsed Keynes signal box is also available as a ready made building. Both would give you a significant leg-up as far as the buildings go although the station is in LBSC colours and the signal box in Southern colours. Easy enough to paint one to match the other.

 

Check out post number 36 for images of Bredon.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79714-the-best-train-set-layout-you-ever-saw/page-2

 

You can even buy a track pack for it.

 

http://www.osbornsmodels.com/peco-setrack-oo-plan-7--bredon---a-classic-scenic-oval-layout-22372-p.asp

 

This lists the layout as 6' 8" by 3' 6' so you could buy some extra straights and open it up a bit and in doing so get a longer platform.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Anglian

[RJS1977]

So, the consensus is that I should go with that Peco plan but I'm "allowed" to model it as if it were the Bluebell and run those engine on it? Sounds good to me. 

 

You can always imagine that the Bluebell have opened another station somewhere along the line (i.e. between Sheffield Park and East Grinstead) - West Hoathley, perhaps? or have extended in another direction. Westwards through Ardingley crops up occasionally, they haven't completely ruled out going further south, or you could imagine another branch off the Bluebell going wherever you want it to!  You could even (and it would be an enormous stretch as the A22's built on part of the trackbed, but things like that don't stop modellers dreaming!) imagine that they've extended east from East Grinstead to Groombridge to link up with the Spa Valley Railway!

[BluebellModeller]

Exactly my thoughts RJS- a new, fictional station terminus beyond East Grinstead! Perfect. Track planning is done. 

 

Next, onto engines. I'm torn between purchasing this pack http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Hornby-steam/Hornby-steam-class-terrier/Hornby-r2891-bluebell-railway-train-pack/ for two reasons, 1. to have a stepney model to placehold as the original until I find the Dapol model, and also because I think as someone who's modeling the bluebell line, it's a pretty special pack to have, or buying birch grove- since that engine seems pretty rare and hattons only has one left in stock. If i had to choose, what is the consensus here on the best one to go with? 

[BluebellModeller]

So I'm planning the exact same layout in SCARM so i can manipulate scenery/etc, and for some reason the tracks are not lining up on the right side like they do in the plan. Any ideas why?

[SRman]

Exactly my thoughts RJS- a new, fictional station terminus beyond East Grinstead! Perfect. Track planning is done. 

 

Next, onto engines. I'm torn between purchasing this pack http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Hornby-steam/Hornby-steam-class-terrier/Hornby-r2891-bluebell-railway-train-pack/ for two reasons, 1. to have a stepney model to placehold as the original until I find the Dapol model, and also because I think as someone who's modeling the bluebell line, it's a pretty special pack to have, or buying birch grove- since that engine seems pretty rare and hattons only has one left in stock. If i had to choose, what is the consensus here on the best one to go with? 

 

I think you have to go with the track plan that gives you the most enjoyment; hang accuracy! It is a model of a preserved line so anything is possible.

 

Personally, I would go for Birch Grove as being a better running model which is also DCC-ready (for the future). The Terriers are old models and rather noisy, although they are smooth and powerful as well, and are not DCC-ready.

 

I like the idea of a station on a future extension of the Bluebell.

 

On the subject of track, set track simplifies things considerably - for a newcomer, the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid! ) is always a good one to stick with. As you gain experience, then you can branch out into more adventurous ideas. Flexible track is more difficult to lay and trim, but does give a better 'flow' to the track work, allowing things like transition curves (easing a curve out into a straight, or vice versa, rather than a sudden lurch from a curve instantly into a straight). Flexi track also allows for odd spaces to be easily filled  in where set track formations won't quite work. On the other hand, when space is tight, as in your case, set track can give more consistent results on curvature.

 

It is also wise to try the plan out in situ before buying the track; Peco do have track templates you can download and print. What works on paper doesn't always quite fit in practice. Make sure you allow adequate clearances for the longest and widest vehicles to pass each other (particularly where the double tracks merge to single track - allow for the longest trains you will run, too) and lineside objects.

 

I do have a soft spot for the Bluebell myself, having grown up in the south east (mostly), and lived not too far from the Bluebell in the 1960s. My first trip there was in my Uncle's Austin A40, complete with a dodgy door that would fly open on right hand bends! I have visited it on each occasion I have returned to Britain too, although the last occasion was in 1999.

 

[Sir Madog]

So I'm planning the exact same layout in SCARM so i can manipulate scenery/etc, and for some reason the tracks are not lining up on the right side like they do in the plan. Any ideas why?

 

I just tried it myself and there are two areas of mismatch.

 

 

 

I used flex track to correct one of the mismatches and the other one is within the usual tolerance of +/- 1mm, so it can be ignored!

 

I´ll be emailing the SCARM file to you in a minute!

[hayfield]

I think you have to go with the track plan that gives you the most enjoyment; hang accuracy! It is a model of a preserved line so anything is possible.

 

 

This is the best advice of all, on an 8 x 4 baseboard you will never fit an accurate scale model unless you model in T gauge, even then you may not have enough room. Call the layout whatever you like, enjoy building the layout (using modellers licence) and running the trains. Dont forget you can run visiting locos, how about a nice big King or an A3 

[BluebellModeller]

Does anyone have a link to Peco's setrack printouts so I can print out the template and make sure it works on my table?

[Sir Madog]

To my knowledge, Peco does not have downloadable templates for setrack points.

[BluebellModeller]

 

It is also wise to try the plan out in situ before buying the track; Peco do have track templates you can download and print. What works on paper doesn't always quite fit in practice. Make sure you allow adequate clearances for the longest and widest vehicles to pass each other (particularly where the double tracks merge to single track - allow for the longest trains you will run, too) and lineside objects.

 

 

 

 

@Ulrich 

[Sir Madog]

I think it is rather unlikely that Peco publishes a track plan which does not work out the way it is planned. The layout dimensions are 3`6" by 7´6", so you are quite comfortable at putting it on a 4 by 8 baseboard.

 

Bredon has been built some 30 years ago and was displayed at shows. I don´t think the builders would have taken the pain of building a lyout and luggung it to shows, if they hadn´t been able to operate the layout as intended.

 

SRman´s advice is certainly not wrong, but rather generic and, in this case, not necessary.

 

I think I have dine my deed and leave the discussion to be taken from here by others.

 

Good luck!

Edited October 18, 2017 by Sir Madog

[Anglian]

As you asked thoughts on locos. This would be what I would do, rightly or wrongly;

 

1) Try to secure a pre-order with a stockist for the SECR H class

 

2) Order one or more P class, Bluebell or SECR livery

 

3) Then either buy an E4 or the preserved livery Adams from Hornby. You have a choice of E4 and you don't have to buy Birch Grove. I think the first Southern green one was a Bluebell livery at some stage.

 

4) USA tank if you like it.

 

You can always get Terriers on eBay so I'd direct your funds at the stuff that is appropriate but that might sell out fast.

 

This lot does however give you a range of tanks and no tender engines but the Q1 has just been released so you could buy one of those. A big contrast to your other engines but not too big for the layout.

 

You won't need much good stock, a dozen or so wagons will be enough to have fun shunting them around. If you want the layout to look Bluebell like you could swap the engine shed of Bredon into a workshop building. A couple of coaches or wagon covered with tarpaulins would set the 'preservation' scene well. Perhaps a couple of four wheelers that don't take up too much siding space. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Anglian

[BlueLightning]

Hi BluebellModeller

 

Just to add on the loco front

 

3) Then either buy an E4 or the preserved livery Adams from Hornby. You have a choice of E4 and you don't have to buy Birch Grove. I think the first Southern green one was a Bluebell livery at some stage.

 

Southern Green is the current livery of the E4 as seen in my picture below, taken on my trip there last month:

 

 

I got pictures of all the locos that were at Sheffield Park, let me know if there are any you would like a look at and I will post them.

 

Gary