GW 4 wheel Staff and Tool coach

[neal cooper]

I am trying a small conversion of the Slaters 7C04 all third kit into the Staff and Tool coach W14913 featured in the Cheona Publications book British Railway Engineer's Stock - 2, page 41, top photo. (I don't want to post the picture for copyright reasons unless advised otherwise).

 

I'm stuck with regards to the brake gear arrangement. The side in the photo is relatively straightforward, but I'm seeking advice on what was normal practice for these vehicles when converted to include the solebar mounted handbrake so I can have a realistic stab at the unseen side.

 

Would it be identical to the pictured side, with the brake lever towards the right hand end? Or would it be mounted directly opposite the one visible in the picture (and modelled in the photos attached) and therefore towards the left hand end on the opposite side? I appreciate that it wouldn't likely to be on the same cross rod as this would give the opposite action for putting on the brake to the one shown, but in the picture in the book there is no other V hanger visible for another 'right hand' positioned brake on the unseen side.

 

Some advice on how these vehicles were arranged after conversion would be appreciated, or better still, is there another picture that shows the other side of a Dean Churchward brake, hand lever fitted coach out there? Any help would be most appreciated!

 

[hmrspaul]

This might be of interest http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrdeptcoach/e3fbf5f62 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrdeptcoach/e1cb6ef2f

 

Paul

[neal cooper]

Thank you Paul. This one has Dean Churchward Brake http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrdeptcoach and is one of yours too!

 

I'm led to believe from a Facebook post to the same question that the brake lever was at the right hand end (as you'd probably expect) and I'm assuming the absence of a corresponding V hanger to hold the non brake handle end of the cross shaft is explained by it being mounted on an underframe member nearer the centre of the body and hidden, and not on the back of the solebar.

Edited October 12, 2017 by neal cooper

[Penrhos1920]

I've had a look at a lot of photos including several that are on my website bottom . All (except one) with DC levers have it as per your model, none are the mirror image which suggests that 4 & 6 wheel coach received a variant of DCIII. There are several coaches where I'd expect to see a brake lever and there simply isn't one. So I think that there was only one DC lever, not one on the other side, and it was on the same side as the vacuum cylinder.

 

I've attached three photos of U29 number 9962 at Shildon when I was given permission to crawl under it. The first photo is one side, the second is a close up of the DC lever and the third shows the dc lever cross shaft which doesn't go the full width of the coach and has the ratchet on it.

 

 

Now here is the odd one out. It's a ex brake third, diagram T47, of a similar vintage to your ex S9:

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Penrhos1920

[neal cooper]

Thank you Penrhos1920, those pictures are very useful! So on the vehicle you photographed there wasn't a brake lever on the other side? That explains what I could see from the photo in the Cheona book. No V hangers for a brake the other side because there isn't one.

 

This raises a question for me. Were these vehicles except from the legal requirement to provide a brake on each side which led to so many vehicles getting independent brake levers and single block on the previously unbraked side to meet the requirement?

[Gordon A]

If the DC brake shaft did not go across the full width of the vehicle then I would expect a similar shaft and handle on the diagonally opposite corner at the other end.

This was the normal layout for wagons that were similarly  braked.

The handle at the other end would not have a ratchet on the shaft.

 

Gordon A

[Penrhos1920]

If the DC brake shaft did not go across the full width of the vehicle then I would expect a similar shaft and handle on the diagonally opposite corner at the other end.

This was the normal layout for wagons that were similarly  braked.

The handle at the other end would not have a ratchet on the shaft.

 

Gordon A

Gordon, I agree with you, but that's not my observation. I've looked at a lot of 4 wheel coaches in departmental use and there are a lot that don't have a brake lever. Unfortunately in most cases I don't have a photo of the other side. But here are two photos of ex U27 no. 9981:

[Penrhos1920]

Back to the original coach 14913. It was originally built in 1902 and formed into a Bristol local set of a T47 brake third, U4 composite and a S9 third. In May 1939 it was converted to 'Workmanship coach for Plymouth Engineering Dept' as seen in the photo.

 

Neal I'm wondering how you are good to represent all of the wooden panels that have been plated over?

[Gordon A]

For coaches in departmental use with out external brake levers would there have been a brake stand fitted inside?

 

Gordon A

[neal cooper]

Back to the original coach 14913. It was originally built in 1902 and formed into a Bristol local set of a T47 brake third, U4 composite and a S9 third. In May 1939 it was converted to 'Workmanship coach for Plymouth Engineering Dept' as seen in the photo.

Neal I'm wondering how you are good to represent all of the wooden panels that have been plated over?

I’ve been pondering that too! Thin styrene filling pieces, filler and lots of rubbing down I suspect. I had previously contemplated leaving the panels alone and living with it, but the mix of panels and sheeting is rather distinctive and I really should have a go. Probably should have done this before assembling the body, but see the above procrastination!

 

I’m going to build this with a brake lever on the left hand end on the opposite side as per your odd one out photo above. If a photo turns up proving me wrong, I can always modify it when the step boards get damaged!

Edited October 19, 2017 by neal cooper

[jim.snowdon]

One thing with these conversions is that you can model them more or less as you want. Swindon (or whichever works was responsible) had to work with what was available in terms of surplus stock and, probably, such other hardware as was available from scrapped stock. The extent of any overplating of panelling would have depended on the condition of the underlying woodwork.

 

In the end it comes down to whether you want to model a specific vehicle, or something typical.

 

Jim

[neal cooper]

I haven’t made much progress on the build as I have been clearing other projects until the last few days when I got some impetus to crack on. Taking another look at the Cheona book image I’m using as inspiration whilst trying to sketch out a possible interior layout I was stunned to find another V hanger in the image.

 

It is amazing what you can find by using an old school magnifying glass! Right up the left hand end, hidden amongst the clutter of vacuum and steam heat pipes is an offset V hanger which I surmise supports the rod for the location of the brake handle on the other side. I have proceeded on this basis.

 

I’ve also bit the bullet and started on the steel panelling repairs which remove much of the original charm of the vehicle. I haven’t slavishly followed the original picture as I wanted to retain a bit more of the original panelling! It’s early days on this work, and it will need a bit more filling and a lot more careful sanding to get a good result.

 

Thank you to all that took the time to answer my original request. I should have used a magnifying glass in the first place...

[neal cooper]

Low winter sun and a coat of primer shows up the extent of filling and rubbing back still required. It’ll be a miracle if I keep all the door stops intact, but they’re easy enough to drill and re add if necessary!