Aberdeen Kirkhill T&RSD

[cromptonnut]

Yes, I was talking about "canopy lighting" rather than the layout lights on the yard. Yard lighting would be bright anyway - but you might find that some low wattage bulbs and coloured film, just to "cast a blue tint" rather than illuminate, might make a lot of difference. A sheet of film should only cost you a few quid - you might even get some experimental success from a couple of layers of something like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dark-Blue-Taillight-Fog-Head-Light-Tint-Vinyl-Film-Wrap-/271034696892?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f1aed44bc and you could probably get away with using a desk lamp or 'lead light' temporarily just to see if it works for you.

 

I've seen a few 'winter layouts' that have had the blue tint effect and it is quite convincing when done properly.

[Temeraire]

Biggleswade next February.

 

You're getting closer fellas, keep coming!

[Flood]

As I've had a days holiday I've had time to work out the stock requirements to model Kirkhill in winter 1980/81:

 

7 Mk1 Sleeper First, 7 Mk1 Sleeper Second, 12 Mk1 BG, 6 Mk1 TSO, 2 Mk1 CK, 1 Mk1 BSK, 4 Mk1 SK, 2 Motorail GUV, 5 Mk1 RMB, 2 Mk2 BSO, 2 Mk2 FK, 7 Mk2 TSO, 1 Mk2c BFK, 2 Mk2a TSO, 2 Mk2c TSO, 4 Postal vehicles, 7 GUV, 2 LMS B, 1 SR B, 1 CCT and one other HST rake but 4 blue and grey power cars. This is with shortened sleeper rakes that will be able to fit Kirkhill!

 

1 Class 25, 3 Class 26, 2 Class 27, 6 Class 40, 1 Class 46, 2 Class 47/0, 6 Class 47/4 and 2 Class 55.

 

That's 77 coaches, another HST set and 27 locos/power cars. Plus the sound chips for all the locos. Approx £6000.

 

 

Does anyone want to sponsor us?????????

Edited October 9, 2012 by Flood

[Bon Accord]

That's a pretty frightening stock list!

I note you mention a cl 46, is that to model a one off occurrence or did they appear in Aberdeen from time to time?

[Flood]

That's a pretty frightening stock list!

I note you mention a cl 46, is that to model a one off occurrence or did they appear in Aberdeen from time to time?

There's a number of photos of them here: http://www.derbysulzers.com/aberdeen.html . The timewarp diary pages (http://www.timewarp.....com/index.html) show one or two occurring around Feb/March 1981. The photos on the derby sulzers site seem to suggest that they became more regular as the year progressed.

 

With regard to the stock list I've just realised that I've never listed our current one (winter 1987/1988) on here yet.

 

4 a/c FO, 4 Mk3 sleeper, 2 BG

3 Mk2a TSO, MK2a BSO, 4 Mk3 Sleeper, 2 BG

4 Mk2e TSO, Mk2d BFK, RBR, BG (+ spare RBR)

2 Mk2 TSO, Mk2d TSOT, Mk2a FK, DBSO (+ spare Mk2a BSO, Mk2 TSO, Mk2d TSO)

Mk2a TSO, 2 Mk2d TSO, Mk2d TSOT, DBSO

4 Mk3a TSO, 1 Mk3a CO, DBSO

2 GUV, 2 BG

4 coach Postal rake in red

4 Mk2 TSO, Mk1 BFK

3 Motorail GUV

Mk3 Sleeper (Scottish services)

Class 150/2 DMU or 3 Coach Mk1 rake (SK, TSO, BG)

4 Mk1 FO, BG, RBR, 4 Mk3 Sleeper (Land Cruise rake) + an 8 coach SLOA MK1 Pullman rake for a change

3 full length 8 car HST sets including a DVT and a failed power car

 

2 Class 08, 1 Class 26/0, 3 Class 26/1, 1 Tinsley 37, 2 Inverness 37s hauling independant snowploughs, 1 Eastfield 37/4, 2 Tinsley Class 47s, 2 Gateshead 47/4s, 7 Inverness 47/4s, 4 Eastfield 47/4s, 3 Eastfield long range 47/4s, 7 Eastfield 47/7s, 1 V2, 1 Black 5.

 

That makes 85 coaches, 3 HST rakes and 37 locos. Well it is a coaching stock depot.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Flood

[rob D2]

Excellent, like the snow effect. I guess most of the stock wouldn't be there long enough to get snowy roofs thus avoiding the dilemma of adding it or not !

[Flood]

Excellent, like the snow effect. I guess most of the stock wouldn't be there long enough to get snowy roofs thus avoiding the dilemma of adding it or not !

Exactly. We have got an Inverness rake which has blown snow around the underframes but all the other stock comes up from the South (where it hasn't been snowing as hard!). There is also a stores van parked up in one of the sidings, that will be getting snow on its roof this winter.

[Home_Signal]

Hi,

 

Firstly, can i say what a fantastic layout you have created. Tis truly exciting to see a layout and start to sense "yes that's what its like in real life"... but you've done it. I certainly join the scores who hope to see you and it South of the M4 one day!

 

The concept has my own mind spiralling into curiosity regarding T&RSMD operations.

 

Are you aware of any books/dvds etc which give an overview of the operations that take place?

 

my initial digging has yielded very little... i remember a 5min segment in one of the documentary channel style railway series which was at St phillips and as i recall invovled a fascination in the vacuuming activity! The only other thing i've found is a book which literally lists depot locations, but nothing regarding the operations.

 

Regards

Simon

[Flood]

Hi Simon

 

I honestly don't know of any publications that have looked into the operations of a carriage maintenance depot. I have seen an article in Rail Enthusiast about how the East Coast Main Line HST fleet was diagrammed and kept running but that is about it. By the way this is a good time for me to have a moan. We've described our depot as a T&RSMD (or T&RSD for short) as it has an allocation of 08s as well as maintaining coaching stock (hence Traction & Rolling Stock Depot instead of CARMD, Carriage Maintenance Depot) but I have noticed a couple of layouts with T&RSMD in their title and not seen any rolling stock repair facilities (and very little rolling stock) present. Anyway, moan over!

 

Most of the needs of the depot were outlined to me by Glenn when we started to build the layout: stock arrives, gets externally washed, goes to maintenance shed as required, returned to depot storage siding for internal clean and topping up of water, pre-heated as required, stock leaves depot for use on day to day services.

 

The actual document used to cover these requirements was CMS123 (Carriage Maintenance Schedule 123). The original explanation of the layout had this summarised on viewing cards for the public and this is shown on one of my blog entries: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/157/entry-667-cms-123-and-other-information/. I have managed to find a scan of CMS123 from a source on the internet and it is 242 pages long, that said it really does tell you everything that needs to be checked on an item of rolling stock.

 

I suppose that the work done is really just another one of those things that the public take for granted but take very little interest in the actual process.

[Home_Signal]

I think you're absolutely right!

 

I put myself in that bracket of people who 'knew' something must go on, but showed little interest or had no suspicion that it was seemingly as interesting as it actually is... until i saw Aberdeen Kirkhill in RM!!!

 

I'm now in the camp of people who want to learn the subtleties of what constitutes the different types of depot and operations, and avoid any potential faux pas should a layout follow...

 

indeed, for me, AK raises the question; are fiddle yards a missed opportunity (to a certain extent)?

 

Could a fiddle yard, devoid of scenary and hidden from public gaze become a 'depot'... bringing the benefits of a new operational dimension, and displaying the models, rather than hiding them away - I mean, i've certainly stood at exhibitions thinking how much i want to see a particular model which is hidden away in the fiddle yard, but it'll be some time before it runs again.

 

I know this won't be everyone's cup of tea, and i certainly wouldn't want this to be read as fiddle yards are wrong, and it's definitely not criticism of any layout or choice,

 

but for me,AK opened my eyes to the possibilities; in my own genre - the WCML post privatisation... instead of my AC electric rakes and EMUs sitting against a background of plywood out of sight, why not have them sat in the sort of ambience you've managed to achieve, and when watching them whiz by looses interest for the day, there is a whole new operational dimension to embrace.

 

Its now that learning curve of understanding before committing sleeper to plywood!

[cromptonnut]

Indeed, most "depot layouts" seem to be "lay as much track as you can and have as many sound fitted locos as you can wedged on-scene ticking over" yet this one has something very different about it which, given the space, I'd love to have a crack at something similar one day.

[rob D2]

Indeed crompton, most TMDs just act as a display case.

This layout I like because the emphasis is on accurate stock , and it obviously operates like the real thing due to the builders inside knowledge.

[Flood]

Given the room, and a lot more money and people, we would love to have the main line running past the depot as a considerable number of the trains that run in the daytime are not represented. We only brought in the Mk3a push-pull set, the charter and the failed HST to add some interest, in reality once the sleeper rakes had been serviced there was nothing to do for the staff in the early evening. The last rake would have been serviced by 16.00 and the next service due in was the Stonehaven local at 19.40 followed by the first push-pull at 20.30. That is why we run a sequence as opposed to a timetable, otherwise the public (and us) would be bored stiff for quite a long time.

 

I am a stickler for accurate stock which is why I will be hassling Glenn for the four Mk2e TSO coaches to be painted this winter. The Plymouth rake is one of three inaccurate consists that we run but luckily most people cannot tell the difference between a Mk2d TSO and a Mk2e TSO! The other two are the Sleeper rakes. They should be four day coaches, BG, six sleepers, BG but Kirkhill can only accommodate four day coaches, BG, four sleepers, BG. I would love to add 3 feet on to either end of the layout but Glenn is sensible enough to tell me to get knotted! Even Kirkhill with all its length and space between the tracks has had to be a compromise.

 

Modelling the Sunday timetable would also be nice but is nigh on impossible. Why, I hear you say, there are less services run on a Sunday? Exactly, less services that run for the public mean more stock sitting on the depot. One Sleeper rake, the Postal rake and five locos would not move all day. Added to that an extra Mk2 air-braked rake arrives from the South and then goes off to Inverness. At the moment all our sidings are utilised to the maximum; we simply do not have enough room for two rakes that never move, a siding full of diesels plus the extra rake.

 

Take it from me if you wish to build an equivalent you will either need 1) to make it to 2mm instead of 4mm but I don't know how easy it is to shunt slowly in 2mm or 2) find a space preferably 30 feet long (Kirkhill is 24.5 feet) by about 6 to 8 feet wide (2 feet for the width of the boards, 2 feet for the operators and 2 feet for the width of the stock tables behind the layout).

[Mattmaz]

Hi there,

 

Firstly - AWESOME layout - secondly, I'd love to come and have a look at an exhibition - has the Biggleswade appearance been confirmed yet?

 

Matt

[Flood]

Hi there,

 

Firstly - AWESOME layout - secondly, I'd love to come and have a look at an exhibition - has the Biggleswade appearance been confirmed yet?

 

Matt

 

Thanks for the compliment Matt. Yes, I'm pretty sure that we are going to Biggleswade.

 

For everyone South of Watford Gap we'll be at Biggleswade in February, Ally Pally in March and Trainwest at Melksham in April.

 

For those "Up Norf" we will be at North Shields for Railex NE in August.

 

Finally we should be at our local Mickleover, Derby exhibition in October.

 

2014 is a bit of a blur at the moment (Glenn has most of the details) but I'm pretty sure that we are at Stafford and Perth.

[Mattmaz]

Compliments where compliments due :-)

 

Thanks very much for the info - If I don't see you at Biggleswade I'll definately be at Ally Pally.

 

Keep up the great work

 

Matt

[Bob Reid]

Perth by god - As near to it's spiritual home as it'll get!

 

Looking forward to that even if it is a bit away....

[johndon]

 

For those "Up Norf" we will be at North Shields for Railex NE in August.

 

 

Excellent news.

 

John

[BigAndy]

Hi Flood,

 

Need to ask a bit of a random question and from looking through this thread, you're the man to ask!

 

I'm modelling Scotrail circa '88 and I wondered if you happen to know a/ the correct colour to be used on 4mm Mk1/Mk2 coach toilet blanking, blue/grey livery, Scotrail and Intercity varients,plus, b/ could you point me in the right direction where i can find the correct fonts/colours/writing on the toilet blanks for push-pull MK3a's?

 

Many thanks

 

Andy

[Flood]

Andy

 

The colour of the toilet windows did not change between all the livery variants but certainly with the air-con stock you can see considerable differences in the colour of the toilet windows through different light when comparing photos taken by the same photographer of the same train on the same day.

 

A Mk2F FO in bright sunlight, the toilet window is a very pale blue and close to the colour of the grey bodyside. http://www.flickr.co...-re/7528703748/

 

A Mk2F TSO also in bright sunlight, the effect is the same:

 

A Mk2D TSO, as per the other two photos: http://www.flickr.co...-re/7528771668

 

Finally a Mk2F TSO seen in shade. The toilet window on this coach (and the one behind) is seen to be considerably bluer in shade: http://www.flickr.co...re/7529140502/

 

So the colour of the windows on Mk2 air-con stock is really up to you. I tend to choose a colour nearer the last photo just for contrast with the light grey on blue and grey stock.

 

For pressure vent Mk2 stock and Mk1 stock I cheat and still use the colour supplied by Bachmann. The photos below show the amount of variation found on Mk2 pressure vent stock.

 

This photo shows a Mk2a TSO with frosted glass on the whole window: http://www.flickr.co...les/5160891987/

 

This photo shows one small section in frosted glass, the rest being opaque: "http://www.flickr.co...ls/3928063775/"

 

 

The push-pull Mk3a stock had specific ScotRail Express blanks fitted in the lower section of the toilet windows. In the following photo 11907 only carries one (at the far end) but the vehicle to the right shows the design quite well (click the photo to make it bigger). http://80srail.zenfo...dbe05f#hedbe05f

 

I know the background was yellow and I think the design was in black but I am not sure. Waverley West has added them to his stock, I seem to remember that he managed to copy an original to get the correct design. His thread will also be of use and is here: http://www.rmweb.co....-waverley-west/

 

I hope that answers your questions, even though for the first part there is not really a specific answer.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Flood

[BigAndy]

Many thanks for the reply.

 

I had been all round the houses looking for a definitive answer, comparing all sorts of photos and asking on here was really my last resort. What you have confirmed for me is what I was beginning to suspect, but I thought it would be best to get your opinion.

 

thanks again.

 

Andy.

[Guest JRCModelRailways]

Lovely layout! I think I may have to buy a Hornby HST! I was just wandering what are the dimensions of the layout in feet?

[Flood]

Lovely layout! I think I may have to buy a Hornby HST! I was just wandering what are the dimensions of the layout in feet?

 

24 feet 4 inches by 2 feet.

 

A few words of caution, all our Hornby Power Cars have been repainted and we use Lima Mk3 coaches in between. The Hornby Power Cars are lovely models, I just prefer the Lima Mk3 coaches (no need to remove secondary door locking lights, more pronounced window frames).

[Flood]

Well Christmas and New Year have been a busy time in the Kirkhill camp.

 

Glenn has tried out his new airbrush and the four Mk2E TSO coaches are well on the way to being finished. I've made some subtle alterations to the sequence to try to make understanding it a bit simpler and we will be setting up the layout tomorrow to give it a full test run on Friday. we also know that the sequence has a few small errors in it so we will correct these when we give the layout a shakedown.

 

I've still got some lining to do (may be Thursday) plus a few movements to some of the stock allocated in the push-pull rakes as we have recently gained another ScotRail FO, TSO and TSOT recently.

 

Just to finish for the time being is a coach I quickly sorted this afternoon. Mk2D FK from a Dapol Mk2D FO with a Lima interior and corridor window bars added.

 

 

 

Many thanks for all your interest over the last few years and I hope you all have an excellent new year.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Flood

[ian b]

Hello!

 

Got to say i'm a massive fan of this layout and theres a quick question you may be able to answer for me!

 

I've got some n-gauge Scotrail liveried stuff on my layout (Jedburgh) but am unsure of the grey used on the bottom half of the bodyside. Is it the same as was used on Intercity liveried coaches and locos or is it paler? Farish has it really grey but my electra vinyls are quite creamy and i'm not sure which is right! Would like to get it uniform and have my 47s in the same colours too!

 

Keep up the good work- Railex NE is now in my diary!

 

Ian B