Wagons for Ironstone

[peregrine]

Hi All

 

This is my first post, so be gentle!  I am coming back into RM after a 15 year absence. 

 

One of my plans for my layout is to have a good marshaling yard, with one of the industries sending trucks to it being a local ironstone quarry, (my fictitious layout will me near Banbury in the steam era late 20s early 30s).  I have decided to give my quarry its own private owner wagons, so I plan to buy some old second wagons and repaint them and perhaps have a small tank engine too.

 

So my question is about wagon types.  My layout will be too early for the BR period specially designed mineral wagons, so all my reading points to standard wooden planked wagons.  The information I cannot find is what size, ie how many planks.  I am assuming 5, 6 or 7, but scouring the internet and all my books I cannot find an answer or even decent pictures of ironstone wagons.

 

I am betting that someone on here will have an answer!

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Cheers

 

Peregrine Nicholls

[jonhall]

I don't really know the answer to you question, but I suspect that because ironstone is quite dense, it will overload the weight of a wagon, long before the volume, therefore that suggests to me smaller bodied (fewer planks) wagons.

 

Jon

[Arthur]

Ironstone was carried in all sorts of open wagons. Look at photographs and you'll often see a motley collection of wooden opens, generally 5 and 7 planks. Whatever was available. As Jon has pointed out, owing to the weight of iron ore, these wagons would be at capacity well before looking full. To the casual observer they would look virtually empty, no more than a quarter or third full.

 

In later years some particular traffic flows used purpose built wagons, usually steel hoppers or tipplers, Tyne Dock-Consett, Bidston-Shotton, General Terminus-Clyde Iron being examples.

 

.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Arthur

[Mark Saunders]

At the end of the War in 1918 there were the Ministry of Munitions 15 & 20 ton hoppers that were then sold to many of the Iron & Steel companies!

 

There was also a low height by modern standards) all steel hopper from several builders, these being built for many different companies and the ones that Workington Iron & Steel had were still used internally in the 1950's.

 

There is a two part article on the MoM hoppers in the HMRS collection along with photographs of many different ones, plus drawings in the drawing collection!

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/

 

Mark Saunders

 

 

 

 

[Guy Rixon]

There was a trend to special designs for carrying ironstone. The NER had, before 1900, the S1 diagram, which was a small slope-sided hopper; Bill Bedford does a kit. Later, the NER and LNER had 30-ton and 20-ton steel hoppers (which looked nothing like the contemporary coal-hoppers of the NER). In the 1930s, some of the ironworks bought batches of steel hoppers from Chas Roberts. Slightly before that, there was a distinctive peak-ended design of steel hopper at Appleby-Frodingham.

 

...none of which excludes also using regular mineral wagons for ironstone, particularly in the flows northward to Lincolnshire. There's also photographic evidence suggesting that the LNER used some ex-NER P7 hoppers (the high-sided, wooden kind, rated at 20T and normally used for coal traffic) for ironstone.

[Fat Controller]

Domestically-produced ironstone from the area between Lincolnshire and Oxfordshire was much less dense than home-produced or imported haematite, so would probably be carried in five or seven-plank wagons. Not only was the mineral less dense, but it would often be transported without crushing, so would load quite high up the wagon sides. Such ore would be unlikely to be loaded in hoppers, as the pieces would be too large for the bottom doors.

The denser ores, from Cumberland and Westmorland, might well be transported in three-plank wagons.

I have seen a photo of wagons being loaded with imported ore at Immingham, with a wide selection of wagons; the most noticeable thing being that most of the wagons have but a thin layer of ore at the bottom. A first glance might leave you thinking the wagons were empty.

[eastglosmog]

In Jenkins, Brown and Parkhouse's "The Banbury and Cheltenham Direct Railway", there is a picture (p94) of a 28xx with a train of Baldwins Ltd PO Iron Ore wagons. Date of photo is June 1923.  Wagon details are a bit fuzzy, but they seem to be 9 plank albeit some of the planks are a bit narrow.

Tonk's "Ironstone Quarries of the Midland, Part II The Oxfordshire Field" has a picture of nondescript battered 7 plank wagons being loaded at Byfield Quarries in 1949.

As Brian says above,  the Jurassic ores of Oxfordshire to Lincolnshire are much less dense than heamatite, although still a lot heavier than coal.

[peregrine]

Thank you everyone for  all the fantastic answers. 

I love this hobby, where else could you learn about the different densities of iron ore native to different parts of England - fantastic.  I will go with 7 plank I think.

Thanks again.

[Nearholmer]

The ironstone quarries were quite widely re-equipped during WW2, and I think that the Oxfordshire field got steel side-dump cars of American style at that time for internal use. As noted above, Tonk's books are invaluable, because they deal with each field and face in turn, which is vital given how things varied from which lace to place.

 

This looks good, too. http://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/202-banbury-yards-and-freight

Edited October 15, 2017 by Nearholmer

[peregrine]

Guys

 

Final; question - I think!   9' or 10! wheelbase for the ironstone wagons?

[Fat Controller]

Guys

 

Final; question - I think!   9' or 10! wheelbase for the ironstone wagons?

8' or 9', I suspect.

[eastglosmog]

I am away from my library at the moment, but I think the Baldwin's wagons were 9ft wheelbase.  Will check when I get home.

[jim.snowdon]

Almost certainly 9' wheelbase, which would align with the RCH standards. 8' is unusually short, and more or less died out with the demise of the pre-1897 small mineral wagons, and 10' is unusual for wagons other than railway owned merchandise opens and vans. Even there, until well into the 1930s, the basic rule was 9' for everything, with 10' being adopted for vehicles equipped with vacuum brakes and intended for running in the higher speed goods trains.

 

Jim

[MarcD]

I have got a series of photos and an article form HMRS its 36MB. just a bit big to post here.

 

Marc 

[MarcD]

Found the following

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/volume-15-number-6-april-june-1995.html

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/volume-15-number-8-october-december-1995.html

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/volume-16-number-9-january-march-1999.html

 

Marc