Jim Martin Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I quite often have cause to travel on the old LT&S line (family in Upminster, occasional work in Southend), so I'm a regular-ish user of Fenchurch Street station. Yesterday I noticed a viaduct curving away on the north side of the line, and I was wondering what it was originally built for. It's a block or two to the east of where the line crosses Leman Street: the arches actually end at Back Church Lane. The structure looks wide enough for at least two tracks and if anything it gets slightly wider towards the end, which makes me wonder if it might have opened out into a goods depot between Leman Street and Back Church Lane. Can anyone enlighten me about this? Thanks Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
decauville1126 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I quite often have cause to travel on the old LT&S line (family in Upminster, occasional work in Southend), so I'm a regular-ish user of Fenchurch Street station. Yesterday I noticed a viaduct curving away on the north side of the line, and I was wondering what it was originally built for. It's a block or two to the east of where the line crosses Leman Street: the arches actually end at Back Church Lane. The structure looks wide enough for at least two tracks and if anything it gets slightly wider towards the end, which makes me wonder if it might have opened out into a goods depot between Leman Street and Back Church Lane. Can anyone enlighten me about this? Thanks Jim Can't remember the name but you're right - the remnant of an access to one of the many goods depots/warehouses along this stretch of line. Have a furkle on the NLS maps site in the 25" London stuff and you'll see the extent of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted October 16, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) 1914 OS 25 inch map has it as a Midland Railway goods depot: http://maps.nls.uk/view/103313324#zoom=5&lat=7912&lon=5484&layers=BT georeferenced overlaid version here: http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=51.5127&lon=-0.0684&layers=168&b=1 (use the small blue dot, lower right, to swap between old/modern) The 1906 RCH junction diagram for the area (no.45) shows it as Commercial Rd. Goods of the L, T & S (image cited as in the public domain https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Aldgate,_Bishopsgate,_Haydon_Square,_Liverpool_Street,_Mansion_House,_Spitalfields_%26_Whitechapel_RJD_45.JPG ) Edited October 16, 2017 by keefer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted October 16, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2017 It was Leman Street goods depot. It was opened in 1877 by the LT&SR but was little used after being bombed during the Blitz. In 1889 a womans torso was discovered in one of the arches where the access lines left the main line, (the Pinchin Street torso). This was at one time thought to have been a Jack the Ripper victim but she was never identified. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 It's worth spending a day exploring the area from Shoreditch, right through Whitechapel and down to the river, because it is, even now, after much bombing and much property development, full of interesting old buildings ....... it's just possible to get a feel for what it might have been like in the late nineteenth century, although it was even more interesting (and rougher) in the 1970s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted October 16, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2017 It's worth spending a day exploring the area from Shoreditch, right through Whitechapel and down to the river, because it is, even now, after much bombing and much property development, full of interesting old buildings ....... it's just possible to get a feel for what it might have been like in the late nineteenth century, although it was even more interesting (and rougher) in the 1970s. Indeed, I started my working days in 1964 in Mitre Square. At that time there was even a few of the goods depots operating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 It's worth spending a day exploring the area from Shoreditch, right through Whitechapel and down to the river, because it is, even now, after much bombing and much property development, full of interesting old buildings ....... it's just possible to get a feel for what it might have been like in the late nineteenth century, although it was even more interesting (and rougher) in the 1970s.I tend to head a bit further east. As you say so much does still survive but you do have to search for it at times. I have recently led a few walking groups in the area and they are always surprised to find parts of London that are totally new to them even when many of the people know the area quite well. As you say it was a bit rougher back in the 70s. There are buildings that were derelict squats from that time that now fetch several million. If you do your home work it is possible to actually reach the shore in several places. The pubs in Shadwell and Wapping are a bit touristy but going along to Limehouse to visit The Grapes is like going back in time. They still sell Whitebait and prawns by the pint. Canary Wharf from the shore at Ratcliffe Cross Stairs. Knowledge of the tide tables is essential. Stevenson's viaduct on the London and Blackwall Railway. The footbridge in the fore ground spans The Regent's Canal. Another good walk. Bernard 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted October 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2017 Where the LTS crosses Leman St is the 4D model shop, an excellent place to visit in London. https://modelshop.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Bernard - why not organise a railway themed walk through the area, specifically for rmwebbers? I think you'd get enough takers. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted October 17, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2017 Bernard - why not organise a railway themed walk through the area, specifically for rmwebbers? I think you'd get enough takers. You could have a 'virtual' tour by following some of the excellent publications from Peter Kay and a copy of 'Fenchurch Street to Barking' from the Middleton Press is also highly recommended. However if such a walk is created I would like to participate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Martin Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Lots of interesting replies here! Many thanks to everyone. It's a very dense railway environment. I was struck by a couple of things apart from the arches which I originally posted about: the LNWR's Haydon Square depot (the start of the arches leading to this are also still visible from trains going into Fenchurch Street) and the PLA's depot, shown as "London Docks Goods" on the RCH map), which looks to have been totally obliterated but which seems to have straddled East Smithfield. A fascinating area. Jim 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Bernard - why not organise a railway themed walk through the area, specifically for rmwebbers? I think you'd get enough takers.An interesting idea. It would need a bit of in depth research into finding a suitable area. I will have a think about it over the winter. My interest in the area started when I was a very young lad. My grandfather worked in Bromley by Bow and when I first went there I was surprised to see odd looking locomotives that had a 5 as the first digit of their number. Bernard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted October 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 18, 2017 Bernard - why not organise a railway themed walk through the area, specifically for rmwebbers? I think you'd get enough takers. An interesting idea. It would need a bit of in depth research into finding a suitable area. I will have a think about it over the winter. My interest in the area started when I was a very young lad. My grandfather worked in Bromley by Bow and when I first went there I was surprised to see odd looking locomotives that had a 5 as the first digit of their number. Bernard There are several areas which would be of interest. The approaches to Fenchurch Street, the old Bishopsgate goods depot and quite a few others. Fortunately many of the old railway structures are now listed but many are not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkirby Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 This map might help? Neil 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Totally redeveloped! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted October 22, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2017 I've just finished a contract at Aldgate Tower. The lower plant rooms are directly above Aldgate East station. It's a bit unnerving to hear a train when your working alone in the cellar areas. Spooky! Ian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted October 22, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2017 I've just finished a contract at Aldgate Tower. The lower plant rooms are directly above Aldgate East station. It's a bit unnerving to hear a train when your working alone in the cellar areas. Spooky! Ian. That is not the original Aldgate East station either. The first station was to the east of the present station and a few feet lower. When they built the present station they raised the track level to about platform height of the old station. Parts of the old station are still there and are visible from passing trains, if you are quick enough and know where to look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 That is not the original Aldgate East station either. The first station was to the east of the present station and a few feet lower. When they built the present station they raised the track level to about platform height of the old station. Parts of the old station are still there and are visible from passing trains, if you are quick enough and know where to look. Surely you mean West? On the lower side of the triangle - I walked that stretch recently. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted October 22, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2017 Surely you mean West? On the lower side of the triangle - I walked that stretch recently. Stewart Yes, I meant west, east of the current station was another station the name of which escapes me at the moment. IIRC the current Aldgate East replaced both stations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted October 22, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) While looking at the area, prompted by the discussion above, I was surprised to see a station at Tower on the Metropolitan line after Aldgate on my gazetteer map of c1884. I hadn't been aware it went beyond Aldgate. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/81528-new-railway-map-c1884-ne-london/ As it's shown in the key as Metropolitan & District was it picked up by the District line, as Tower Hill, when it went eastwards towards Upminster? Was it ever the Metropolitan terminus beyond Aldgate? Edited October 22, 2017 by phil_sutters 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestburyJack Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) georeferenced overlaid version here: http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=51.5127&lon=-0.0684&layers=168&b=1 (use the small blue dot, lower right, to swap between old/modern) What a brilliant facility! Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Edited October 23, 2017 by PrestburyJack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 While looking at the area, prompted by the discussion above, I was surprised to see a station at Tower on the Metropolitan line after Aldgate on my gazetteer map of c1884. I hadn't been aware it went beyond Aldgate. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/81528-new-railway-map-c1884-ne-london/ As it's shown in the key as Metropolitan & District was it picked up by the District line, as Tower Hill, when it went eastwards towards Upminster? Was it ever the Metropolitan terminus beyond Aldgate? http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/t/tower_hill_station/index.shtml Try this Phil. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted October 23, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2017 Yes, I meant west, east of the current station was another station the name of which escapes me at the moment. IIRC the current Aldgate East replaced both stations. The station I was thinking of was St. Mary's, Whitechapel Road. In fact one of the platforms still exists but it is walled off from the running lines when it was used as an air raid shelter. The street level buildings were bombed during the war and subsequently demolished. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted October 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2017 http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/t/tower_hill_station/index.shtml Try this Phil. Bernard Many thanks, Bernard. It's amazing what is out there on the net. So many times odd things on this site lead me off into all sorts of interesting subjects. Best wishes Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted October 23, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) One of my favourite sites: http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk Stations are arranged by area, then by line (includes overground lines too) Mark Lane/Tower Hill: http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/Mark_Lane_station.html Edited October 23, 2017 by keefer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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