Water, coal, and engine sheds

[ejstubbs]

Thinking about where to put the water cranes and coal bunker on my layout, a thought occurred to me.  How do you get water and coal to a loco tucked away inside your typical small branch line terminus engine shed?  Presumably there must have been some way to get coal in the firebox and water in the tank/tender in order to get some steam up and to get the thing moving in the morning.  Or was it standard practice to coal and water the engine before 'putting it to bed'?

[tomparryharry]

Most  loco sheds have a hydrant or hose to draw off water. If a loco is slightly warm from, say yesterday, then a fire would be lit, and the hose inserted to the locomotive tank, and turned on. The relative slow flow of a hose (as opposed to a water crane) allows time for oiling the locomotive, and checking around. Once the tank (or tender) is filled, then its cleaning, and minor repairs. Coaling up is a job normally done when finishing off for the day.

 

We still do this at Blaenavon.

 

Ian.

[ejstubbs]

Thanks, that makes sense.  I have seen quite a few plans and photos of prototype locations where the coal bunker and water crane at a BLT were not immediately adjacent to the loco shed, and I just wondered whether any other provision had to be made (and therefore modelled).  But it seems not.  Which is handy.

[LMS2968]

'Disposal' involved filling the tank and bunker / tender with coal before stabling the loco, unless there was a specific reason not to. Main Works didn't like engines arriving for overhaul full of coal, which would have to be shovelled out.

[ejstubbs]

Thanks; I had assumed that a loco would be run with the least coal necessary on board if it was going in for overhaul but it's good to have that confirmed.  Excess water would be rather easier to remove, I imagine.

[The Johnster]

In the case of a loco required for service the following day, as would be typical at a branch line terminus with a shed but was the normal practice at main sheds as well, the loco would be 'disposed' by dropping the fire, cleaning the smokebox, and filling with water/coal, but left in 'light steam' overnight, so as to be able to move around the shed (in the case of the branch line this is no more than the move from the coaling point into the shed) as required.  Preparation in the morning involves lighting a new fire and bringing the loco up to full working pressure, much quicker than lighting up from cold.

 

Boiler washout requires the fire to be dropped and the loco to be out of steam, a 48 hour task.  I suggest googling the BTC film 'Wash and Brush Up' for an insight into this window into just how labour intensive steam locomotive operation was!  In normal circumstances, the loco is in steam continuously between washouts, but not always at full working pressure.

[LMS2968]

Bear in mind that there are two ways to wash out a loco boiler: hot and cold. The LMS, as in the film, always did it cold and used a controlled flow of cold water through the boiler to bring the temperature down. The boiler internals would be examined at the same time, as would other parts of the loco (X Day). Other Railways would wash out hot using hot water, after merely bringing the temperature down to the point where there was no steam pressure. Obviously, this was quicker, but the LMS combined washout with other exams, and minor, and sometimes not so minor, running repairs would also be postponed to washout / X Day.

 

The tank and bunker would be filled as normal prior to washout / X Day.

Edited October 23, 2017 by LMS2968

[The Johnster]

Steam locos do not like being cooled down or heated up too quickly; expansion and contraction occurs at different rates in different parts, and joints especially are vulnerable to this sort of wear.  Hence the keeping of a loco warm or in 'light steam' as much as practicable.

Edited October 23, 2017 by The Johnster

[luckymucklebackit]

What would be the minimum time allowed between a medium sized locomotive coming on shed to be turned, watered and coaled and being ready for it's next duty?

 

Jim

[The Johnster]

Not very long, and often while the crew had their food break with the loco being moved around the depot by shed men.  Once the turning, coaling, and watering are done the loco is ready to go back into service, unless fitters' attention is needed, and this was passed off on to the home shed wherever possible.  Where servicing points were provided, such as at Ranaleagh Bridge or King's X, the loco didn't even have to go to the shed.

[LMS2968]

It depended how long the loco had been in traffic. If only for a short while, then the Johnster's appraisal is accurate, but if the engine had been several hours on the road, you can add grate cleaning, ashpan emptying and smokebox cleaning to the list.

 

Whem LMS 6234 did her record breaking trips Crewe - Glasgow and return in February 1939, she went on Polmadie shed for servicing. The time allowed was only two hours, which was considered a bit of a rush job.

 

Remember too that taking coal could be quick under a coaling tower, slower at an older coaling stage, and very slow at a small shed where the coal might have to be thrown in with a shovel!

Edited October 23, 2017 by LMS2968

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Typical sequence, though varied due to shed layout:

 

On shed

Turn (if necessary)

Water

Coal

Ash pit

Drop fire

Shed / maintenance (if necessary)

 

Raise steam / clean

Crew preparation - oiling round and filling sandboxes

Top-up water (if necessary)

Sometimes crews would top-up the coal too if on a long journey

Off shed

[Mike 84C]

Prep time for a 4-6-0,2-8-0 etc was 1 hour and a small engine 0-6-0 45 mins on the Western Region. On prep turns the object was to get your 6/7 engines ready then get the shift foreman to sign the time sheet and get off home smartish! I do stand to be corrected but that is what I remember having to work to in the '60;s Fire cleaning was as long as it took! When its all little purple flames and deep clinker you know it's going to be a rough one! Out with the long bar and pricker and the clinker shovel would be red hot! Fire droppers were usually very strong blokes. Rocking grates and hopper ash pans, easy peasy!

[ejstubbs]

Another, related, question, about ash pits and inspection pits.  I presume these were not the same thing ie you weren't expected to inspect the underside of the loco from atop a pile of smouldering remnants recently dumped from the firebox.  So, thinking again about the 'typical' branch line engine shed, would there be a clean(ish) inspection pit inside the shed (and thus potentially not visible in a model) and a separate ash pit outside eg next to the coal bunker?

[LMS2968]

Ash and inspection pits were normally segregated, but inspection pits might well be outside the shed, usually in front of the doors (or the gaps where doors might otherwise be).