Kings Cross York Road & Suburban Platforms

[TheSignalEngineer]

 Straying a little down the line, I thought these may interest someone.

 

In 1989, after the roaring success of the Thameslink launch, we put in extra signal sections between Kentish Town and Smithfield Tunnel in order to increase the service frequency.

 

The majority of the on-track signalling preparations were done during five 27-hour possessions from January to March with the commissioning over a five day possession at the beginning of May. These pictures were taken during the first major possession on 29th January. 

 

As we were working in the tunnel throughout the possession we didn't want to take a Class 31 on the materials train so we borrowed two pairs of the Class 501 battery conversions 97703/4/5/6 I believe they were, certainly the two at the ends match the rust on contemporary pictures. to haul six wagons of materials. 

 

97705 leading at the first drop point in the tunnel. 

 

 

97703 bringing up the rear of the loco combination. 

 

Unloading AWS fittings with loco 97703.

 

All pictures © C E Steele

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 Straying a little down the line, I thought these may interest someone.

 

In 1989, after the roaring success of the Thameslink launch, we put in extra signal sections between Kentish Town and Smithfield Tunnel in order to increase the service frequency.

 

The majority of the on-track signalling preparations were done during five 27-hour possessions from January to March with the commissioning over a five day possession at the beginning of May. These pictures were taken during the first major possession on 29th January. 

 

As we were working in the tunnel throughout the possession we didn't want to take a Class 31 on the materials train so we borrowed two pairs of the Class 501 battery conversions 97703/4/5/6 I believe they were, certainly the two at the ends match the rust on contemporary pictures. to haul six wagons of materials. 

 

8901_30 (800x566).jpg

97705 leading at the first drop point in the tunnel. 

 

 

8901_31 (800x566).jpg

97703 bringing up the rear of the loco combination. 

 

8901_32 (800x538).jpg

Unloading AWS fittings with loco 97703.

 

All pictures © C E Steele

 

That last picture is obviously staged, if the camera wasn't there they would have been slung off, or am I being too cynical!?

 

MIke.

[TheSignalEngineer]

That last picture is obviously staged, if the camera wasn't there they would have been slung off, or am I being too cynical!?

 

MIke.

I was the Resident Engineer on the job and the man on the extreme right was their Supervisor, Ted Keatley. As I walked ahead or rode on the loco to identify the drop points they had to do it right. I checked off all plant and materials to ensure everything was where it was needed. As the clearances were so tight Ted supervised the stacking of all material not being used in the immediate possession.

It was also one of the first major S&T possessions post Clapham, so how I organised everything was very much under the microscope.

[Guest]

Whilst searching for something only loosely related, I found this link which may be of some interest.

 

https://1londonblog.uk/2017/04/old-railway-tunnel-kings-cross/

[Clive Mortimore]

Sad but progress.

[Mike Storey]

Whilst searching for something only loosely related, I found this link which may be of some interest.

 

https://1londonblog.uk/2017/04/old-railway-tunnel-kings-cross/

 

Really interesting info and views I have never seen before, thanks.

 

However, there remains a lot of confusion over which tunnels remain accessible and usable for vehicles etc. I was certainly of the belief that a big chunk of the Hotel Curve was given over to a diversion of the Fleet Sewer, prior to the KGX Thameslink works and new station development. The attached thread lends support to this (you need to scroll down about a dozen photos to get to the Kings Cross diversion section) - http://www.adeadendstreet.co.uk/2014/11/river-fleet-cso-london.html

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Peter Townend makes an interesting comment in his book "Top Shed" regarding the Hotel Curve.

 

On occasion, Midland line trains took the signal incorrectly at King's Cross Met and came out of the wrong hole into King's Cross station, instead of going underneath St Pancras to the Midland Lines. In such cases there was no quick way of getting the train back on the right lines and it had to be terminated at KX.

[Guest]

I know these shots of Platform 16 at Kings Cross have been linked to before in this thread, but can anyone take a look and "guesstimate" the width of the platform at this point? I'm going to assume about 16 feet? Second opinions more than welcome.

Reason for asking is that I've finalised a track plan to include Platforms 14, 15, 16 & 17 and have printed it out 1/1 scale and taped it to a ply base. Platforms 14 & 15 look ok, but I think I've grossly overestimated the width of Platforms 16 & 17. Looking at the paper plan, they simply look far too wide. The plan needs to be redrawn but I thought I'd ask for opinions and educated guesses first.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82097736@N00/11431006736/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82097736@N00/8565925056/

 

Edit: I think I can assume Platform 17 is narrower at the same point than Platform 16, but that's a guess - no conclusive photographic evidence exists.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Pete 75C

[Jim]

Very interesting, those last few posts.

How those small diameter sewers were ever dug and brick lined.

[Neil]

Using the non gangwayed carriage (9' wide) in the second photo as a starting point and with a bit of rough measuring on screen my calculations put the platform width at about 23' - 24'.

[Clive Mortimore]

I know these shots of Platform 16 at Kings Cross have been linked to before in this thread, but can anyone take a look and "guesstimate" the width of the platform at this point? I'm going to assume about 16 feet? second opinions more than welcome.

Reason for asking is that I've finalised a track plan to include Platforms 14, 15, 16 & 17 and have printed it out 1/1 scale and taped it to a ply base. Platforms 14 & 15 look ok, but I think I've grossly overestimated the width of Platforms 16 & 17. Looking at the paper plan, they simply look far too wide. The plan needs to be redrawn but I thought I'd ask for opinions and educated guesses first.

I think I can assume Platform 17 is narrower at the same point than Platform 16, but that's a guess - no conclusive photographic evidence exists.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82097736@N00/11431006736/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82097736@N00/8565925056/

Hi Pete

 

Using the carriage end in the second photo as a rough measuring tool, the platform is two and a tiny bit coaches wide from edge to building. A Mk1 carriage is about 8ft 6ins to 9 ft wide across the body. Therefore platform is 18 to 20 feet wide at the point of the end of the train.

 

Copy photo one into a image program, copy the bloke nearest the camera and flip him on his side. Then at the same point along the platform lay him down starting either at the wall or the platform edge, you will be able to add three of him laying head to toe on the platform with a little extra space. Assume he is of average height 5ft 9 ins and the platform is about 18 ft wide.

 

Or

take the dimensions off the map.

[chris p bacon]

Looking at the boards in relation to some of the items on platform,  I estimate at 18'

[Guest]

Thanks guys. Using the map scale and also by opening the photo in Corel's PSP, tipping the man on his side and laying end to end, it does seem to come somewhere between 18-22 feet. I'm more than happy with that. Going back to my paper plan, I'd made the platform 40 feet wide(!), so yes I screwed that up spectacularly. No wonder it looked so wrong! A quick redraw and then another 24 sheets of A4 and I'll see how it looks. Thanks again.

[MikeTrice]

No idea if this helps but if you start with the OS maps here: http://maps.nls.uk//view/102903937

 

The legend at the bottom tells us each square represents 100 metres. Bring into a graphics program and scale.

[Dava]

Much earlier in this thread I referred to the open section of the York Rd curve to the Widened Lines in the backyard of buildings on York Way, visible on Google Maps satellite view.

 

A visit to my publisher in Kings Cross on Thursday provided the opportunity to check this out. It is the only site which gives public access to view either of the KX former connections to the Widened Lines.

 

Across York Way from KX station, and just north of the former model shop, there is an alleyway with a metal grille giving access to a courtyard. Access from Pentonville Rd is much more visible as it is the new Regent Quarter precinct. 

 

 

The blue brick abutment walls of the curve are easily visible.

 

Below the trackbed is also visible with two sets of strengthening girders and a mesh to avoid Urbexers and partygoers abseiling down. The trackbed looks wet.

 

 

For most people, this will be their only chance to sample these disused lines - from a public space. 

 

Dava

[Guest]

Another couple of shots I haven't seen before. The first is a particularly clear shot of 31404 pulling away from Platform 16 in 1976. Good view of the trip cock fitted to the valance and also good for reference with regard to lineside detailing... signals, cabinets, speed restriction signs etc. I like the Flickr comment about the Deltic spoiling the shot!
The second shot shows a Cravens at York Road in morning sunlight.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidhayes/5357303859

 

https://www.lner.info/forums/download/file.php?id=5098&sid=018203538ad0e16652f758a693dff485&mode=view

 

Edited 'cos I keep getting my Met Cams and Cravens mixed up. I reckon it's age...

Edited January 28, 2018 by Pete 75C

[Guest]

As the lack of space to do any "proper" modelling drags on, doodling continues with a plan that tries to fit platforms 14, 15, 16 & 17 into a manageable baseboard area. Try as I might, I don't seem able to improve on the plan below, which I quite like.
Ignore the bizarre colour-coding, that's just a personal reference for cutting and baseboard levels. The plan fits into an area of 7' x 2'. The odd little "kink" into Platform 14 is prototypical and is there to clear the wall of the suburban train shed.
Platforms 14 & 15 will each take a pair of Cravens 105s or a small selection of parcels stock. Could also be used for stabling the odd light engine, as I've seen photos of Deltics, Peaks and 40s waiting here.
The incline up from the tunnel into Platform 16 will be a prototypical 1:50. DCC Concepts Powerbase could be used, but a Hornby Class 31 hauling four Bachmann suburbans would probably manage well enough without it.
What isn't prototypical is the compression and messing with the trackwork on the approach which is a neccesary evil. This may or may not get built, but it's a definite front-runner in my mind.

 

 

Edit: Click on the image above for a less-fuzzy larger version.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Pete 75C

[Clive Mortimore]

Another couple of shots I haven't seen before. The first is a particularly clear shot of 31404 pulling away from Platform 16 in 1976. Good view of the trip cock fitted to the valance and also good for reference with regard to lineside detailing... signals, cabinets, speed restriction signs etc. I like the Flickr comment about the Deltic spoiling the shot!

The second shot shows a MetCam at York Road in morning sunlight.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidhayes/5357303859

 

https://www.lner.info/forums/download/file.php?id=5098&sid=018203538ad0e16652f758a693dff485&mode=view

Hi Pete

 

I think the Met Cam is a Cravens.

[Guest]

I think the Met Cam is a Cravens.

 

Of course it is... I don't know why I keep getting those mixed up.

[rodent279]

Here's a view looking down on the York Road platform. That's 55004 departing in the background.

 

(260a) 55004 Kings Cross 1-8-75 (T Ermel) .jpg

Kings Cross on 1st August 1975

 

Trevor

 

Edit for typo

Fascinating photo. Travelling by train was a very different experience as little as 40 years ago. My first memories are from around that time, of class 104's on Preston-Blackpool locals (we lived at Ansdell), far cry from today's Pendos/Sprinters etc.

 

Back to KX-how long was a typical class 31 hauled KX suburban to Moorgate? 6 X Mk1 suburbans?

Edited January 28, 2018 by rodent279

[Guest]

Back to KX-how long was a typical class 31 hauled KX suburban to Moorgate? 6 X Mk1 suburbans?

 

Over on the LNER forum, recollection is of 6 coach sets, with the occasional 7. Another post says that no more than 6 coaches could be accomodated in Platform 16 at Kings Cross without the loco passing the signal. True or not, I do not know.

 

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7196

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

Below the trackbed is also visible with two sets of strengthening girders and a mesh to avoid Urbexers and partygoers abseiling down. The trackbed looks wet.

 

I remember when I was working on the original Thameslink jobs that we tried to get into the Hotel Curve tunnel from the bottom when we were looking for ways of access for materials but it was flooded.

[robertcwp]

 

Back to KX-how long was a typical class 31 hauled KX suburban to Moorgate? 6 X Mk1 suburbans?

Following the rebuilding of Moorgate station in the mid-1960s, the maximum length was 6 Mark I suburbans, usually 2 S, BS, 3 S. Prior to that, it had been 5. Longer trains of the Mark I non-gangwayed stock operated on some outer-suburban services from King's Cross. I think even 6 was a squeeze in the Hotel Curve platform at King's Cross.

[Swindon 123]

Just came across a very early map of the Kings Cross area,(The copyright is unknown) with only two lines into the station, but showing both the York Rd and Hotel Curve tunnels. The interesting thing is that a large part of the Hotel Curve was open to the elements and not in a tunnel. i have shown the map below, but like i said, i have no idea of the copyright, so if it is going to infringe any rights, I'll remove it from the post.

 

Paul J.

[Guest]

Just came across a very early map of the Kings Cross area.

 

The full version of this map can be found at https://www.lner.info/co/GNR/kingscross.php. Scroll about a quarter of the way down the page and then click to enlarge. The original covers quite a large area. It's an Ordnance Survey map from 1874. Thumbnail image below.