Kings Cross York Road & Suburban Platforms

[manna]

G'Day All.

 

All the junctions down the 'drain' were on the flat, although you couldn't see anything.

 

manna

 

Edit, If you look at my avatar, it shows a J52 at York Rd, about to go down the 'Drain'.

Edited November 3, 2017 by manna

[Nearholmer]

Is there a junction by which it is possible to continue downwards from York Road, eventually emerging on the other side of the globe, in Booborowie, then?

[APOLLO]

View of the other end of York Rd platform.

 

 

Brit15

Edited November 3, 2017 by APOLLO

[APOLLO]

And a view of the hole in the tunnel mentioned a few posts ago

 

 

Brit15

[DCB]

It is surprising how few model railways feature the main lines diving under a canal just off the station throat...

Maybe because no one would believe it.

[Chris Turnbull]

This is the Kings Cross section of Table A from the LNER Sectional Appendix for 1947.  If I've read it correctly the gradient is 1:49.

 

Chris Turnbull

Table A Kings Cross.pdf

Edited November 4, 2017 by Chris Turnbull

[Nearholmer]

The 1:49 is on Hotel Curve, the Down Line.

 

It doesn’t seem to have anything for the line being discussed here, presumably because it has no catch points on it.

[Guest]

This is the Kings Cross section of Table A from the LNER Sectional Appendix for 1947.  If I've read it correctly the gradient is 1:49.

 

Thanks Chris. It certainly looks from the Sectional Appendix you linked to (although I think the 1:49 might be the down line) and from other posters as though the falling gradient from a point perhaps three quarters of the way along York Road station platform is in the region of 1:40 - 1:50. Heading in the Up direction, emerging from Gasworks tunnel into the station platform, can I assume it's on a very slight rising gradient or level? I know the line rises in the tunnel but just curious if once in daylight, the line is on the flat?

[Guest]

There's no doubt that York Road would make an interesting project, especially if the up main is included.

 

My "doodling track plans" to "building layouts" ratio probably stands at about 1000:1 and I knew I'd dreamt up a scenario for York Rd in the past. I managed to find the old Anyrail file in a folder on the hard drive. Amazingly I'd got it down to 6' x 18" in OO! A Class 31 + 3 Mk1 suburbans would be a comfortable fit. The limitations of space and Peco streamline geometry make for a glaring compromise, but handbuilt track and a larger available area to work with would certainly make for an interesting project.

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Pete 75C

[chris p bacon]

I've been toying with this idea but in the GN era and that track plan is nearly the same.

 

 I was thinking of doing something small to use at our club exhibition and to try a few techniques out before I cock  use them on 'Sandy'

 

Now will it fit in a cake box....

Edited November 4, 2017 by chris p bacon

[Guest]

Now will it fit in a cake box....

 

I'll tell you what would...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rgadsdon/4545067359/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rgadsdon/3709048449/

 

And back to the real world, a shot of York Road looking across from the end of the mainline platforms...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sirbrianrobertson/6254404819/

Edited November 4, 2017 by Pete 75C

[russ p]

Is there anything at all left of hotel curve,?

[TrevorP1]

It is surprising how few model railways feature the main lines diving under a canal just off the station throat...

Maybe because no one would believe it.

I’ve had this kind of conversation several times. I think it’s because people know of Holloway Bank and believe it starts at the platform end.

[TrevorP1]

My "doodling track plans" to "building layouts" ratio probably stands at about 1000:1 and I knew I'd dreamt up a scenario for York Rd in the past. I managed to find the old Anyrail file in a folder on the hard drive. Amazingly I'd got it down to 6' x 18" in OO! A Class 31 + 3 Mk1 suburbans would be a comfortable fit. The limitations of space and Peco streamline geometry make for a glaring compromise, but handbuilt track and a larger available area to work with would certainly make for an interesting project.

 

KX.jpg

You’re not helping Pete! Mmmm.....

[D854_Tiger]

Does the new Thameslink tunnel and station (platforms A and B) under St Pancras International broadly follow the old formation along what's confusingly called King's Cross tunnel.

 

Basically, was this tunnel simple opened out in order to accommodate the new station and the new connections from it to the GN main line.

[Lord-Claud-Hamilton]

My "doodling track plans" to "building layouts" ratio probably stands at about 1000:1 and I knew I'd dreamt up a scenario for York Rd in the past. I managed to find the old Anyrail file in a folder on the hard drive. Amazingly I'd got it down to 6' x 18" in OO! A Class 31 + 3 Mk1 suburbans would be a comfortable fit. The limitations of space and Peco streamline geometry make for a glaring compromise, but handbuilt track and a larger available area to work with would certainly make for an interesting project.

 

KX.jpg

 

I love layout idea's like this. But how would you 'backdrop' a layout like this....I guess a photo across the track to the stabling point?

[Fat Controller]

Does the new Thameslink tunnel and station (platforms A and B) under St Pancras International broadly follow the old formation along what's confusingly called King's Cross tunnel.

 

Basically, was this tunnel simple opened out in order to accommodate the new station and the new connections from it to the GN main line.

The new link starts north of Gasworks Tunnel, and just south of the bridge that connects St Pancras to the 'London Tunnel' of HS1. If they'd followed the line of the old tunnel, they have come out south of St Pancras Thameslink.

[Guest]

I love layout idea's like this. But how would you 'backdrop' a layout like this....I guess a photo across the track to the stabling point?

 

I would frame it the other way, looking "from" the stabling point with the backdrop being the buildings along York Way. Obvious scenic breaks would be Gasworks Tunnel to the left and the station canopy to the right.

The image below bears no resemblance to the track layout in the early 70s (which would be my preferred timeframe), but you get the idea - the layout area shown in red.

 

[Oldddudders]

Is there anything at all left of hotel curve,?

 

Where it came close to the surface was revealed for a while about 2003, during the KX project, but filled in, I think.

[chris p bacon]

I Hope this isn't too far off topic.

 

As well as looking at York Rd for a cameo (ish) layout, I also thought about doing KX loco with Hotel curve platform.

 

That's the original KX loco.

 

 

The idea was to use the end wall of the suburban as a backdrop and battle bridge as a scenic break,  I thought it might be interesting with loco's coming on/off shed as well as passenger and cross London freights climbing the curve. The reason for it was so I could utilise my stock over 2 layouts.

 

I ought really to put some dimensions to it to see whether the idea floats or not.

 

 

[TrevorP1]

A question for anyone who knew York Road well. How far did the platform go into the tunnel at the country end? An earlier photo shows a narrow platform inside the bore, amazing different safety regime in those days! From photos, platform 16 had a similarly narrow section just outside the Hotel Curve tunnel.

[keefer]

Further away from York Rd. but along the same lines(!) Barbican had the eastbound platform extended into the tunnel to allow 8-car trains, resulting in a very narrow platform:

 

http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/WidenedLines2.html (photos from 2009)

 

Also similar to the fate of York Rd, the 'branch' to Moorgate was closed. This was to allow extending of Farringdon's platforms for 12-car Thameslink services via Snow Hill:

 

http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/WidenedLines.html

 

(i find it interesting that over fairly recent history you had  Moorgate line open/Snow Hill closed > both lines open for the Thameslink era > Moorgate line closed/Snow Hill open)

 

To get back vaguely on-topic, the page about York Rd is here: http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/Kings_X_Widened.html

(click through at the bottom of the page to follow the stations along the line)

[MikeTrice]

Another unpublished photo for you:

[Echo]

I did wonder why they needed such a big building there. Then I remembered that it was a busy through route at one time, not just for GN line trains to Moorgate but for trains up to Ludgate Hill and beyond too.

[Echo]

Here's York Road and environs in 1895

 

 

Even allowing for a little artistic licence from the draughtsman, there is some interesting track to model in that lot - and all in just around 5ft 6in long in 4mm scale too.