Barclay Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Following on from 5050's success submitting his Prairie for inspection I wonder what others can tell me about this old EM gauge LMS/Kitson dock tank? I bought it at expo-EM as a pile of bits for a fiver a few years ago, but there are aspects of it that make me think it's very old. The motor is the old type Romford with the bearing outside the worm and the wheels are solid brass, insulated at the hub on very thin axles. Initial thoughts were to modernise it with new wheels or even a new chassis but I soon realised that I had to keep it as original as possible. It has therefore been 'bodged' back together and runs quite well, especially on the Pentroller. There are some shorting issues occasionally, which I am still struggling to isolate, but it runs well enough for light use. The loco is scratchbuilt in brass and is a lovely piece of work, especially given the lack of suitable bits back in the day. It would be fascinating to know who might have built it, and if anyone recognises the type of wheel. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted November 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2017 Afraid I can't help with identifying the builder but would the wheels be conversions from standard wagon wheels? That it has thin axles would fit with this notion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris45lsw Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Afraid I can't help with identifying the builder but would the wheels be conversions from standard wagon wheels? That it has thin axles would fit with this notion. Given the 12 spokes more likely converted loco carrying wheels? Chris KT? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 That's the sort of thing I would gladly pay a fiver for at a show, really interesting. Could have been built by anyone I suppose - unless a trawl through old magazines shows it lurking in the background of a photo! Being EM would narrow the field. How does it run? Must be well 'run-in' by now! The funny thing is that I have just finished getting my version of the same type of loco up and running again. It was originally built (from Jidenco kit) in 00 by Steve Hall and I converted it to P4 many years ago as a demo item at the Wakefield show. It never seemed to work very well but when I really looked at it this time I realised that perhaps the pick-ups were at fault. I changed the wires for new ones and now it's fine. Another potential 'Enigma' loco joins the stud! BTW - I recognise your track plan and pointwork from an industrial site somewhere. A gas or chemical plant? Seen some photos on John Turner's site with it featured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Could the shorting issues be down to the gauge being 18 mm not 18.2 mm owing to its age, The motor is something like a Phantom (my W&H reference books are in the loft Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) The wheels look like Essar, Stewart Reidpath, the bush in the middle could be changed to any size of axle, and the motor is a Romford unit series V, I suspect. The intermittent short will be via the cylinders, as maybe the crankpins are not insulated. With solid wheels and no rim insulation the motion will short the wheels. It was a poplar fix to insulate one cylinder with a mica insulation plate or a paper washer, which may have gone off with age. It needs further disassembly to find the short. If it can't be traced, then do the cylinder insulation, and rewire. Do not forget the slide bar hangers may also short out, and must be isolated on one side. Stephen. Edited November 3, 2017 by bertiedog Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Could the shorting issues be down to the gauge being 18 mm not 18.2 mm owing to its age, The motor is something like a Phantom (my W&H reference books are in the loft It shouldn't make any difference. The track gauge was increased by 0.2mm, but no changes were made to the wheel specification. Modern wheels are a bit thinner, but the back to back is slightly greater to compensate. These seem to be the BRMSB 2.5mm thickness. The pick up system appears to consist of an insulated cylinder/motion assembly with the pickups soldered to the motion bracket (too short?). The wheels could be intermittently touching the frame and the insulating sleeve for the motor brush spring has seen better days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
decauville1126 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 The pick up system appears to consist of an insulated cylinder/motion assembly with the pickups soldered to the motion bracket (too short?). The wheels could be intermittently touching the frame and the insulating sleeve for the motor brush spring has seen better days. When I have a 'suspect' intermittent shorting loco I just run it in total darkness and watch. Helps establish that there is a problem, and then bring up the lights just enough to help identify the location. Shorts also sometimes leave a scar, so a good look over with an eyeglass sometimes spots these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barclay Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 Thanks all - very interesting. I think the idea that the wheels could be carrying/tender wheels is a possibility, and the Reidpath connection is a good notion, the wheels are bushed. I think the crankpins/cylinders are definitely the shorting culprits and a night run is the answer! 5050 - I'm delighted to hear you've seen a similar track layout in the real world, as I dreamed it up many years ago. It just goes to show you can get away with a lot in industrial modelling - even a 15" radius curve that bisects 2 other lines and a crossover looks like something that actually existed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) Thanks all - very interesting. I think the idea that the wheels could be carrying/tender wheels is a possibility, and the Reidpath connection is a good notion, the wheels are bushed. I think the crankpins/cylinders are definitely the shorting culprits and a night run is the answer! 5050 - I'm delighted to hear you've seen a similar track layout in the real world, as I dreamed it up many years ago. It just goes to show you can get away with a lot in industrial modelling - even a 15" radius curve that bisects 2 other lines and a crossover looks like something that actually existed. Have a look here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/albums/72157624214785241 About 20 photos down, a Borrows well tank at United Glass Charlton. There are a couple more shots of the same location from different angles further on. Edited November 6, 2017 by 5050 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barclay Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 Have a look here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/albums/72157624214785241 About 20 photos down, a Borrows well tank at United Glass Charlton. There are a couple more shots of the same location from different angles further on. Great pictures - love this kind of thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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