Ruston Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) I was so pleased with the outcome of my first proper attempt at scratchbuilding that I am doing another scratchbuild in 4mm. I posted a couple of "Grand Designs" for my next layout and have now decided that it will be the 1900s-1920s coal and clay layout, so more motive power will be needed for this. I already have the Manning Wardle class H and a Hornby Peckett W4 is on order but something different is next on the list... This one will be a Bagnall wing tank. I have enough information now to have made up drawings using photos and illustrations of three out of the four that were built to standard gauge, plus known dimensions. The cylinder size, wheelbase and cab/bunker style are the same as on ordinary 12-inch Bagnall saddletanks and so a General Arrangement drawing of one of these has been adapted. The model will be closely based on W/n1392 of 1892. Edited April 5, 2018 by Ruston 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted November 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 2, 2017 A very interesting design, Dave. I didn't know that they were produced in Standard Gauge form as well as the smaller versions. After seeing what you did on the MW I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted March 3, 2018 Author Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) Work has started on the Bagnall and I have made the first patterns. The drawings were done on A3 paper and bonded to 2mm high impact styrene, using MEK. The patterns were cut out and, where holes will be needed, have been drilled just 1.5mm and highlighted by red marker pen. This is simply to act as registration points for the the stylus on the pantograph miller, which will be touched on the holes to make a mark. Final drilling to the required size is done by hand. The patterns will be sorted accoring to the thickness and type of material required for the actual parts and bonded to a backing sheet of styrene for use. They have been made to six times the size of the metal parts that will be cut. The holes in the frame should have radiused corners but there is no need to make them on the patterns as the milling cutters do this anyway. Edited March 3, 2018 by Ruston 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandhole Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Work has started on the Bagnall and I have made the first patterns. The drawings were done on A3 paper and bonded to 2mm high impact styrene, using MEK. The patterns were cut out and, where holes will be needed, have been drilled just 1.5mm and highlighted by red marker pen. This is simply to act as registration points for the the stylus on the pantograph miller, which will be touched on the holes to make a mark. Final drilling to the required size is done by hand. The patterns will be sorted accoring to the thickness and type of material required for the actual parts and bonded to a backing sheet of styrene for use. They have been made to six times the size of the metal parts that will be cut. BagnalllPatternsweb.jpg The holes in the frame should have radiused corners but there is no need to make them on the patterns as the milling cutters do this anyway. In awe of your output!!! Looking forward to this!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Were you aware that there is a collection of Bagnall drawings held by the county archives at Stafford? Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) I wasn't aware of that, Gordon. No matter as what I've got to work from will do for my purposes. Most of the pattern making is done, with just a few smaller pieces, mainly brake gear and motion, left to do. The bunker looks very close to the rear of the tank here but the length of the bunker sides have to take into consideration the fact that a bend will be put into the sides. The front panel will be made as is shown but also with an outer panel that will not have the hole in it. The hole is there, as is the hole in the cab front, to locate the tube for the boiler. The transverse strip of plastic under the boiler hole is to save making another pattern as the inner (with the hole) needs to be shorter than the blank outer as it sits on a subframe, rather than outside it as the other smokebox/tank pieces do. This subrframe has four holes that match holes in the running plate, which will allow the tank/smokebox assembly to be removeable and also to locate the parts. The cab assembly will be made in the same way. Edited March 9, 2018 by Ruston 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 All parts present and correct. Frame parts, cab front, tank formers, tank and cab bases, and cylinder parts in 40 thou. brass, tank sides and tops, cab sides and rear etc. 18 thou. brass, cab roof and spectacles 10 thou. brass. Motion and slidebars are 40 thou. nickel silver. Tapping the tank base for 14BA nuts, which fix the tank assembly to the running plate. Using such thick brass for the bases obviates the need to solder nuts in place, which can be an awkward process involving grease, potentially unreliable solder joints, and plenty of foul language. Tank and cab bases screwed to running plate. The foremost tank former has only a hole to take the smokebox door but the second and far end one are hollow to allow the boiler barrel to pass through them. The boiler barrel also passes through the cab front. Once the tank formers have been soldered to the base, and the tank tops soldered on, the boiler barrel will be marked off and cut out to allow for the motor/gearbox. As the drive will be going on the front axle, the remainder of the boiler barrel will be filled with lead.. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 It all fits then?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 It all fits then?! Mostly. There have been a few tiny adjustments that have needed to be made with a file here and there but otherwise it's all slotted together well. Better than some kits! I went to the York exhibition, on Saturday, and looked to see if I could find a suitable chimney, dome and smokebox door but everything that was available was for specific mainline company large locomotives. Strangely, some people consider a Midland 3F Jinty small! I bought a dome that looked suitable but turns out that it isn't and the chimney that 5050 gave me looks to be off some huge GWR pannier tank, so I'm going to have to scratchbuild those. I've already started scratchbuilding the smokebox door. As always with small industrial tank engines, getting enough weight in can be a problem. To get the most weight in the available space I cast a lead ingot using the boiler barrel as a mould. The wing tanks will be filled with lead sheet. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 It was 'im, number three, wot dunnit. L-R - The chimney I was going to use, new home-made chimney, whitemetal dome that I was going to use, new home-made dome. This is my first ever attempt at making either chimney or dome and I'm reasonably happy with how they have turned out but although the dome has the right proportions, I'm not convinced about the chimney. It's just a bit too slender and I've put a taper on it, which I don't think should really be there, so I'll probably have another go at that. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share Posted April 4, 2018 It looks a bit rough in extreme close up but at a normal viewing distance, or without my specs on, it'll be fine after a coat of paint. I'm quite pleased with it, anyway 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 Not much interest in boiler fittings, eh? OK then, I'll try something else. Some things are just too much hassle to make from brass, so it was time to raid the plastic rod and section scrap drawer. I have absolutely no idea what the boiler backhead would look like on one of these Bagnalls, so it's all made up from what I know of other loco types. I need to put the bunkers in and then a reverser and parking brake column. The photos that I have of these Bagnalls are too dark to see if the rear sandboxes were under the running plate so I'm going to guess not and put them in the cab as was the way with some Pecketts. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium AdeMoore Posted April 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2018 Excellent stufff going on here Ruston, be interested to know how you went about cutting out all the parts that made it like kit form. Cheers Ade Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium AdeMoore Posted April 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2018 Excellent stufff going on here Ruston, be interested to know how you went about cutting out all the parts that made it like kit form. Cheers Ade Rereading I see now pantograph miller thought they looked darn good for hand made! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 It's all gone Pete Tong. I knew that something wasn't right but I couldn't put my finger on it. Then, looking at the prototype photo, I realised what it is. It's all too narrow! There's nothing of the buffer beams outside the buffers on my model but there are quite a few inches on the prototype. That means everthing else regarding the width is out too and so the tank/smokebox front is out of proportion. There are no dimensions given that I know of for the wing tanks, but I have found a width for a slightly later 12x18" cylinder Bagnall saddletank, which I will now work from. The tank/smokebox/boiler assembly can be rescued by laminating extra panels on each side of the tanks and blending it all together with low-melt solder but the running plate, buffer beams, cab back, cab floor and cab front will need to be made again. Fortunately, this is no big deal as strips of plasticard can be fixed to sides of the patterns and new parts cut from them to the correct width. I will also take the opportunity to make new cab sides as they don't match the cab front panel in height, due to an error in planning how it would all fit together. Cylinders made and fitted, plus firebox front fitted to frames. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium AdeMoore Posted April 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2018 Blimey Ruston looked fine to me! You are as the saying goes your own worst critic. Last photo looking mighty fine that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 Blimey Ruston looked fine to me! You are as the saying goes your own worst critic. Last photo looking mighty fine that. It's one of those things though, isn't it? Something that would forver niggle and annoy me. It was the same with some Dapol/Mainline 24-ton ironstone hoppers that I painted and weathered. They looked fine and I was happy with them until someone told me that the RTR models were a scale foot too long and once I knew this, I noticed it until it really annoyed me. There was no alternative but to chop the extra length out of them and completely repaint and weather them all over again. On the positive side, at least I've caught this early and can do something about it. If I'd fixed the two bodywork assemblies together, or fixed the boiler backhead in place, it would have meant a great deal more work to put it all right. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 Backhead painted and ready for installation, once I have a cab to install it in. Does anyone know what the shelf above the firehole was for? It's something that I've noticed on a few industrial locomotives and have always wondered if it was there for any reason other than somewhere for the crew to keep their cans of tea warm. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hadyn Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Backhead painted and ready for installation, once I have a cab to install it in. WingTank-040.jpg Does anyone know what the shelf above the firehole was for? It's something that I've noticed on a few industrial locomotives and have always wondered if it was there for any reason other than somewhere for the crew to keep their cans of tea warm. I keep the can of steam oil there so it is kept warm and flows more easily when needed 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium AdeMoore Posted April 7, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2018 Help deflect the heat from the controls every time the fire box is opened? Not just industrial. locos 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 What's the loco in the top photo? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted April 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2018 (edited) I think it's 'Willy the Well Tank' owned by the Flour Mill. Kerr Stuart built to a Borrows design I believe. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71777-willy-kerr-stuart/ Edited April 17, 2018 by Corbs 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium AdeMoore Posted April 8, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2018 (edited) What's the loco in the top photo? removed further post as I was wrong on my own photo! I think you are right Corbs. Edit 2nd to remove incorrect photo. Edited April 8, 2018 by AdeMoore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 Thanks, Corbs. There used to be one of those, called Windle, at the Middleton Railway. A very elegant design, which I would like to model some day. I might have to have a visit there and take a tape measure with me... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 i think windle went to ribble railway in Preston Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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