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New RTR releases - is your purchase really necessary?


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There seems to be an almost never-ending flow of new RTR releases these days, most of them of high quality, and certainly much, much better than the more limited range of RTR models that were available when I was growing up in the 1960s and 1970s.

 

Like many of us, I've often been tempted by some of these new and recent models and have given in and got my credit card out.

 

Often this has been to buy models that I don't strictly need for my layouts, in that the models are not appropriate for a layout based on the Somerset & Dorset, the Midland in South Gloucestershire or, more recently, the GW in the Welsh borders. But I have perhaps been seduced by the pretty colours of the Edwardian pre-Grouping liveries, or the striking blue of the prototype Deltic, or even the 'Blue Pullman'.

 

Sometimes I've just bought stuff (even if in BR black) because I thought 'that's such a nice model' (like the Kernow 02).

 

But, having recently sold on a whole load of pristine, mint-condition, hardly-been-out-of-their-boxes RTR models, that I bought over quite a few years, but never got around to doing anything with, I've begun to wonder whether I couldn't have just got the pleasure of these models vicariously, from looking at them on the shelves of a model shop, or on-line places like RMWeb, or perhaps at an exhibition.

 

Do I really need to part with my cash and actually own one of them?

 

I speak as someone who doesn't normally have a layout set up at home to play with operate (no suitable space). I also don't really have the room (or the inclination, if I'm honest) for a glass-fronted display cabinet.

 

My layouts are all intended as exhibition layouts, so I wouldn't run any RTR model straight out of it's box anyway, it would need weathering and perhaps one or two details adding or tweaking, at the very least.

 

So what do I do with the new RTR items that I do buy?

 

I get them home, maybe have a look at them through the clear plastic window in their box (if I have the time or the inclination I might even take it out of it's box for a few minutes) and then I put them away in a cupboard or a drawer, waiting for that time when I might get them out again, in order to get them ready to go into 'exhibition stock' (running-in, weathering, detailing, crew being added etc.). And that's assuming that it's a model that is even remotely appropriate for my layouts.

 

And once I've got the model home, or sometimes even before that stage, I begin to wonder to myself - did I really need this model, was it really necessary to part with my cash, once the 'excitement of the purchase' is over?

 

Accepted, there are a few RTR locos that I will do something with and can argue a need for, pannier tanks for a start, and probably the Hornby Peckett, which has been my favourite RTR purchase for a long time.

 

But the rest? Do/did I really need them?

 

The answer is 'probably not', and it was this conclusion that led me to pass a load on for sale in recent times. I don't miss the NRM Prototype Deltic, although it was a really nice model, nor do I miss the BR black Midland Compound, which is really a bit too early for my period. Nor do I miss the Bachmann 'Evening Star', even though I could have justified that on 'Engine Wood', but it was so far down the queue for weathering (and did I really want to weather something 'collectable' like that?), that it was never realistically going to get used on the layout.

 

So why do some of us give in to the urge to buy stuff, when presented with the opportunity in a shop, at a show or on-line? Is it that the actual purchase gives us some kind of mental/psychological thrill, that wears off after a period of time?

 

If that's the case, then I can recommend 'proxy shopping', if you can find a friend who wants something, and who asks you go get it for them. That way, you get to experience the thrill of the purchase, and 'temporary custodianship' of the model, thus potentially 'enjoying it' for a while, before handing it over, shedding any responsibility for it, and getting your money back!

 

So now there's a whole raft of further releases that I have to agonise over. Hattons must know that I'm a sucker for cute little industrials.

 

And no, I really don't need a Hornby 'H' class in BR black, and I'm most definitely not going to get one. No, I'm not. Definitely not. Promise.

 

 

 

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That is a very thought provoking post CK, well at least it is with me.

I am not a collector by any stretch of anyone's imagination but I do sometimes buy things just for the sheer pleasure of ownership-even if it is just a temporary whim.

 

Also I don't call my self a modeller, its far too loaded a word these days - I just buy and sometimes make stuff that could suit an idea that I have at a time; If I change that idea so be it.

I can still use what I have to do something else :)

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In N I purchased way too much on the basis of get them whilst you can what I ended up with was a mix of BR Blue and steam across various regions where my preference was actually something GW/Southern.

 

The blue stuff an eclectic mix of Western, London Mildland and Scottish engines and units, nothing coherent and in many respects upsetting as I knew I had more than I would ever need as I am not a big layout builder.

 

Having gone to OO I've learnt from my mistakes or so I thought, my target area is South West in Southern/GW lines and purchases have been better focussed though a Southern Green 2-BIL slipped in as it was a bargain and an SECR C class. I probably again have too many locos with two of T9, 02, Well Tanks, M7, Panniers plus some others and then I came into some cash so I splurged on EMUs just before the prices went through the roof.

 

But of late I have been surprisingly able to say to myself, I don't need that, even the DJM 71 at a bargain £109.

 

My wants list is actually now small, a green Dean goods, a Collett goods and a steam railmotor, only two of these are due any time soon and a local toy and train fair is getting a miss as I have all the coaches I need and same for wagons (maybe a couple of Ventilated vans when they come out).

 

I've been rewiring my layout this week and will begin scenics next week, I might even create a little N gauge number too next year but not one big enough for my Dapol 253 and it's 7 coaches which I think only once stretched its legs on my old N gauge layout.

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Firmly in the ‘they’re toy trains, of course they’re not “needed” camp’.

 

Not worth trying to justify it IMO, if you want something, and it’s not going to result in the electricity bill going unpaid or food being unaffordable then crack on!

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I've gone though what you describe and now never regretted what I've purchased in the past, perhaps regretted not buying more. I've probably gone though what most modellers do, childhood layout, then college, various rented properties, young family, layouts semi-

Permanent, sheds, garages, attics etc. So had the growing collection in boxes etc.

 

Now I quite enjoy running them, built a simple layout were they just run round and round, course some survived the left in box but not so happy with recent purchases

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I have enough models to sink a battleship ... nay, a whole fleet of battleships! Do I need more? Not on your life! Do I want more? All the time.

I have a large layout, still under construction, but even when it is finished, there won't be enough room for even a fraction of my collection. There are trains I still want to model - I tend to look at it in the sense of wanting the whole train. For the various SECR locos I have, I have bought rtr and built kits of suitable wagons and npcc stock, but the Bachmann birdcage coaches will add a better dimension to the trains. Other trains take longer to build up, with modern wagons like the Bachmann JGAs being bought in ones or twos over several years to spread the cost.

Like several other people here, I like seeing the trains running, and I like variety. If I run out of money, I have enough to keep me going for the years to come, as well as having enough unbuilt kits to keep me entertained in those years! All I need are glues and paint to continue on.

Will I continue to buy the new releases that fit with the various themes I model? Yes, until I run out of money. :D

Edited by SRman
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An old girlfriend used to say about clothes she was attracted to buying ‘love it madly or need it badly’. I tend to follow that now.

 

If I get urge to buy, I extend the ‘pondering on purchase’ period to at least a week, maybe more. If I continue to ‘need’ it, I may buy but I put all sorts of devil’s advocate excuses in my own way.

 

Does it work? No, not all the time but it does give me time to create all the justification arguments......

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Quite without trying, I realised that I had been straddling the line between modelling and collecting ever since I bought my second Hornby Merchant Navy and most of my weight is now resting on the foot that stands on the collecting side. :O

 

However, having been inclined to model BR Southern Region c.1961, ever since c.1961, I have been quite disciplined about keeping the collecting side of it on theme.

 

I do drift around the edges of it, geographically (S&DJR and some WR, especially if it came "our way" post-1962) so also chronologically by a few (!) years either way.

 

I used to have a modest selection of modern stuff, most of which had passed my windows at work, but cleared that out soon after I retired as I decided I was never going to run it.

 

On the whole, I'm quite pleasantly surprised how few real flights of fancy have made it past my criteria just because I found them irresistible. Confession time: Midland 1F 0-6-0T, LNWR Super D, L&Y Radial tank, GWR Dukedog, (all in BR livery) Derby Lightweight DMU and Deltic DP1 (all Bachmann) plus a Heljan Falcon in the 2-tone green it received after transfer to the WR. I also have a Bachmann WD that gets used quite often, but usually inappropriately and  (most recently) a Bachmann Birdcage set that will require a bit of excusing as they didn't run on "my bit of the Southern"!

 

I've lately been tempted by a few small industrial locos, though one can usually excuse them so long as you only use one at a time. I fully expect this trend to continue. :jester: Forthcoming Heljan 47xx and Bachmann Brighton Atlantic? No comment!

 

Everything else is, has been or is intended for use on group/friends projects and my own past/future layouts once I've worked through the required detailing/weathering etc.

 

Interestingly, it seems that most of the stuff I really want comes in red boxes but (Sentinels and Pecketts aside) nearly all the off-topic temptations come from elsewhere.

 

Do I buy too much? Almost certainly, but I don't consciously go without anything else that I really want to have or do as a consequence.

 

Is it a problem? Not really, I haven't felt the need for another "thin-out" so there's evidently no element of "why on earth did I buy that" creeping in post-purchase.

 

In any case, with interest rates the way they are, much of my collection (there, I've said it) will be holding its value better than money in the bank.  

 

John


In cycling terms, it is n+1.

n being how many bikes you have & n+1 the number of bikes you feel you need.

With one of my mates, that's guitars............

Edited by Dunsignalling
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In my case, the answer to the question is a resounding Yes.

 

I don't have the patience or inclination to built kits of locos or rolling stock - I want them to work.

 

Do I buy stuff that's out of my 'area' ? - no.

Do I buy more models of the stuff in my area than I ought to? - Definitely yes.

 

I want to be able to run a layout in eras from GWR steam to BR blue diesel - not before or after, so will buy multiple models of the same loco ( about 8 each of panniers and prairies so far) plus coaching stock and wagons to match.

Edited by Stubby47
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A very thought provoking post, CK.  Suddenly I can see what it might be like to be at an AA meeting.......:-)

 

Having been down a similar path, I came to the conclusion that it went back to my childhood when we were very happy, but never had the money to spend on anything but the essentials plus the few treats on birthdays and Christmas.  I recall gazing for hours and hours and the latest Triang/Hornby/Gamages catalogues every year and my imagination went into overload.

 

Fast forward 50 years and I've been fortunate with jobs/housing/pensions etc and suddenly found I had cash to buy all these things, only this time it was my credit card went that into overload and most new models arrived on our doorstep.  I convinced myself they would be an investment and in some cases they were, but many weren't.  Overall, I guess I broke even.  

 

What did I get from it?  The excitement of receiving and opening the latest purchase.  The pleasure of looking at something for a few days and then it went back in the box awaiting that layout that never got built.

 

It's funny comparing the two situations and it reminded me of my boss who had yearned for a Porsche all his life and eventually the day came and he bought a brand new 911.  Over a beer many years later he admitted that the reality of owning one, somehow still fell short of the feelings of wanting one when it was a pipedream.  It seems life is like that and there are few things these days that exceed my expectations and those that do, often involve a combination of people/place/time.  Most of my memorable meals for instance have been in a pub over a few beers and simple pub food with a group of friends when it seemed everything just clicked and the hours flew by.

 

On the up side, selling stuff on eBay became quite therapeutic and photographing that 'must have' model at the time and seeing it attract bids in some way was equal to the excitement of buying one in the first place.

 

The real 'cure' came though when Martin Wynne convinced me to build my own pointwork and then I realised the 'high' of making something and seeing it work was infinitely more pleasurable than waiting for the postman and opening a box.  The cost of raw materials was a fraction of what I was spending before and the addiction of 'must have' models has gone.  I haven't bought a model now in a few years and really enjoy making something.  Of course it could be any aspect of this hobby of ours, but clearing your workspace and going back to basics when we had to make everything might just be the answer to 'new model addiction'.

Edited by gordon s
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Why do we buy RTR? Do we treat RTR trains as consumables or collectables? Do we purchase items because they were not available or we could not afford them in the past?

I have no use for a 1930s C1 but it does look rather smart. Then it obviously needs a rake of the correct Pullmans to pull.

Seeing the prototype Deltic being delivered back in my schooldays I had to have a model. That required suitable stock so Bachmann Mk1s arrived in the hobby room.

I tend to model rural branch lines so they are all totally out of place so I built a 6' x 4' board and laid some set track to give them a run from time to time.

Funnily enough buying things and setting up a place to run them has led to a more tidy approach and running a train round while I work on a kit or an RTR conversion is quite relaxing and I do manage to get more modelling done. 

I am not well off, but have reached an age where my savings divided by life expectancy puts me in a comfortable position to indulge in my hobby. I share this situation with many others of my age group who had continual employment and have paid off the mortgage. In twenty years time I think things will be very different.

Bernard

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Very interesting discussion.

 

I think I’m with Gordon above, in that this is somehow tied-up with childhood. There was barely a spare ha’penny in our household when my brothers and I were boys, which certainly led to a fair bit of ‘nose pressed to toy shop window’ stuff, but it also led to nearly all of our toys being secondhand, either straight hand-downs, or from jumble sales. This all resurfaced as a love of older-style 0 Gauge r-t- r (see my thread).

 

I’ve opened too many ‘collecting avenues’, and although I manage to stay within the bounds of sensible affordability I’ve frankly got too many trains! My comfort is that I know really serious collectors, and boy, do they have a lot of old trains.

 

So the solution is simple: mix with addicts who are worse afflicted than yourself, and you’ll feel fine.

 

Maybe.

 

PS: re-reading the above, I realise that it might come across as a tear-jerking whinge about having second-hand toys. what I actually meant was rather the opposite. Having old toys meant 0 gauge, including a glorious Bassett Lowke 2-6-4T, when everybody else had 00, then Dublo when everyone else was drifting toward Triang. It formed a taste for "heavy metal", for which I'm profoundly grateful.

Edited by Nearholmer
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So the solution is simple: mix with addicts who are worse afflicted than yourself, and you’ll feel fine.

 

Maybe.

 

That's why some of us spend time here - therapy!

 

But then when you have tried to confine your spending to a mere handful of totally disparate prototypes and scales ( OO, HO French and US, On30 - but at least they all use 16.5 mm) along comes a holiday elsewhere and suddenly HOm looms, too. 69 next week and feckless....

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That's why some of us spend time here - therapy!

 

But then when you have tried to confine your spending to a mere handful of totally disparate prototypes and scales ( OO, HO French and US, On30 - but at least they all use 16.5 mm) along comes a holiday elsewhere and suddenly HOm looms, too. 69 next week and feckless....

I must confess that my earlier post neglected to mention a mild flirtation with O Gauge, but two r-t-r 0-6-0 tanks and half-a-dozen wagon kits never hurt anyone.............

 

John   

Edited by Dunsignalling
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My problem is I buy something thinking about what layout I can do with that and usually do build it! It appears my thrill of the purchase lasts into building a layout ;) Once I've scratched that itch I can quite happily move on to the next project, selling or dismantling and recycling the layout.

I've accumulated stock for a couple of projects then changed tack for various reasons so sold it on. I have bought a few locos like Deltic simply because I like them and they are the ones that tend to come out and get run on my fathers layout when I visit which is a traditional roundy.

My solution in OO was to build a rtr friendly layout where I can swap buildings and vehicles around to run different small collections at home or present it as just a couple at a show. I have Light railway, SR steam, BR steam, 2000's for its 'real' location then West Highland 37's and Metropolitan themes as well.

The OO stuff tends to be rtr now and I concentrate my modelling of stock on the 7/8ths narrow gauge where there is no off the shelf option. It allows me to enjoy running models without the 7/8ths getting frustrating because it takes so long.

One or two have called rtr and modelling different branches of the same hobby but I disagree because the two can overlap in so many ways. I like building layouts but not stock as much so I only build stuff I really want. I'm also more interested in the overall picture so I devote my time to the general impression rather than every last correct detail. When people criticise that approach I refer them to the great art in galleries that shows a similar split of focus.

So no we don't 'need' any toys but if they give you a bit of pleasure that help you through life in one way or another that's fine. I'm not sure buying for others works as I've done that and thought that's a nice model and bought one for myself!

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Ultimately what is so satisfying about buying something and then doing nothing with it?

 

We have all been guilty of temptation, some of us have succumbed, but unless you make some effort yourself (other than reaching for a card) most of the rewards of our hobby will elude you. 

 

Purchase and ownership are OK, and if your interest is in collecting and display fair enough, but unless you actually do some modelling you are missing out on a large part of the more satisfying aspects of our hobby.

 

Chaz

Edited by chaz
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I think we're all guilty. We might try and rationalise. But then models hove into view to create a railway Shangri-La.

in my case the latest are the H and P tanks. But after that mmmm. A C2X or K would be essential.

 

Regarding others there can be extreme mental turmoil. Do I need an O class 15?

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I've only bought two, identical, new releases. My plans included building a light railway in EM gauge, but when Dapol announced their O gauge Terriers in Kent & East Sussex livery, I decided to model the K&ESR in O gauge. So my only two new releases have been bought for a specific purpose, that involved a change of plan to suit them, but not a new project or an addition to a pile of stuff stored in a cupboard. I may even be starting to build the layout soon!

 

I've also got two Oxford GWR Toads on pre-order, again for specific uses. One is for my EM gauge "Abbotsbridge" layout, and the other will probably be converted to the single example that was built as a broad gauge convertible, for use on my "Small, Broad and Totally Pointless" layout. If I don't convert it to broad gauge, it will be converted to P4 and backdated to as built condition for SB&TP.

 

I can't think of any other new releases I have a use for, and I'd rather spend the money on tools and materials for making stuff, or not spend it at all :).

Edited by BG John
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A very interesting and thought provoking thread. I have far more models then I will ever 'need', even though if we are to use the language of addiction I am in 'therapy'  :no:

 

I buy far fewer new RTR than I used to, and by and large I try and stick to the 'one in, one out' process whereby if there are new acquisitions I have a sort through and find something that can be passed on. My observations on my own motivations -

 

Like others here, we did not have much spare cash when I was a child. I've loved trains since I was small but my dad was into aircraft (he built flying RC models). Train sets were too expensive  and I never got one - in fact it was only at the age of 11 that I started creating a layout, using secondhand parts from the Harrow Model Shop. My big dream at that age was to be able to afford both a loco and a controller, as one wan't much use without the other. One of the things this motivated me to do was to go out and get a job as soon as I could, because I realised that without money, we don't get what we want, and no-one is just going to give it to you.

 

Possibly because of this background, I never abandoned the hobby - even through youth and marriage or whatever I always managed to keep my toes dipped in the water of modelling, even if layouts were temporary. And of course, new releases that took my fancy were bought.

 

My core interest is the BR Blue era of my childhood - and you only have to look back to the catalogues of the 1970s to see that most RTR was of steam and pre-nationalisation, so for a while, it was reasonably easy to work on the basis that if it was blue and RTR in 00 I would buy it. However, as we grow our interests develop so from being relatively uninterested in steam, the more I, for example, visited open days and heritage railways, the more they interested me. I became (and still am) particularly fascinated by that period in the late 1960s when steam ran alongside BR Blue - I realised as an adult, just how much within touching distance of the Victorian railways the BR blue era of my youth had been - semaphore signalling, steam heat and all. 

 

This meant of course scope creep on what was being bought. The 1980s and 90s brought about continuous 'upgrading' of models, the latest ones always being the final answer in accuracy and fidelity until the next one....

 

In the early to mid 2000s I went through some major changes in my life and I realised that I was in the habit of 'having' to buy the latest releases - and it was, unbelievably, a chore rather too much of the time. How silly! This is supposed to be fun! So I did undertake a big clearout and downsizing and really began to test acquisition and ownership against  one criteria - that being  whether I will get pleasure from a purchase. This is liberating in a couple of ways - it releases you from the 'need' to buy 'c' ONLY because you already have 'a' and 'b' of a set (rather than because you want it); and it also means I can buy something without needing to feel I ought to be keeping it forever - I know if it fits and brings joy it will stay; whereas if, after a while, I think 'no', I can pass that on to someone who wants it more .In these days of batch production I often find this approach allows a fellow enthusiast who 'missed the boat' when a model came out to get it later. Indeed, one of my criteria for moving something on is where the 'collectors' market sends the price of something I bought to the level where I think actually, other people obviously love it more than me so I'll move it on. The money gets recycled in the hobby anyway.

 

I look round now on the cusp of 50 and realise that I own or have owned literally every single model I craved as a child. There's a sense of satisfaction and purpose in having done it, but that is distinct from needing to sit amongst this stuff for the rest of my life for the sake of it. If I don't get some degree of pleasure from it now - from handling it or running it - then it can go.My older son (now grown up) never got 'the bug' but my youngster is train and model obsessed. He does get indulged more than I did but actually one of the things I do buy today are models of some of the trains we ride around on today together - he has some to play with now, but I'm also making sure that when he's grown up there are one or two models of trains of his own childhood that he'll hopefully take pleasure in having - and if not, I'm sure someone out there will want them....

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Possibly equally important - what about the stuff you wish you'd bought at the time....and didn't....

Or the stuff you sold and wish you'd kept.

 

I have more trains than I need but SWMBO has more shoes than she needs but we each respect the other's indulgences and collections.

 

There must be some joke somewhere about RTR trainers and RTR trains.

 

 

Pete the Elaner many thanks for explaining the need to purchase with the n+1 formula.

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Well !! Years ago ( about 20) I decided I was gonna be 'strict' with myself over purchases to prevent overspending (ha,ha). One area I knew well ( South Staffs), one era ( 1958 - 1960), and only buy locos/classes I actually saw as a young railway enthusiast ( ok 'train-spotter' ??) - but the figure now is in 3 numbers, with far too many multiples, ah well, the best of intentions.

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