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Peco Bullhead Points: in the flesh

Peco bullhead points turnouts SL-U1189




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#1 AJ427

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 09:38

Some pics of the long awaited and much discussed product. Acquired from Frizinghall Models yesterday. They had a decent stock level and selling them for £27.
Mods, please feel free to move/lock this thread as appropriate.

F1C76422-4EB7-4B9E-AA3F-0E10AFB9B993.jpeg ECBBEB76-224F-44C6-861B-4FF88988E0AC.jpeg 5D60D59E-C5F2-4B12-9889-957E71B3F500.jpeg 2D420CFB-806F-4E36-85EE-27B68BC3A614.jpeg 8F9273AC-2270-4C2F-9D66-6826765CF84B.jpeg ABD06560-2C32-4069-9D43-7E77974F4981.jpeg 1CA4C16D-3ACA-49C8-86E1-52ED3E5C8D38.jpeg 67FE4BDF-B4BD-4D06-B892-1BDC1D6EBC0C.jpeg 2CCF8B9A-EE46-4A42-A737-A5589E54B4DA.jpeg D760C433-9802-4759-8711-C2B6BEBD156A.jpeg 314CB0F8-3843-4CBB-A658-150CF70EEAF1.jpeg 94CD885F-A905-4C34-B819-3FA501E16DCD.jpeg

Whilst robust, as expected they are much more flimsy than the flat bottom code 75. The switch mechanism is the usual spring so it clicks into place with finger action if that’s your preference.
You may be able to see some of the compromises for mass production - the double chairs look a bit odd and there is a sort of clamp/stopper on the fourth sleeper up from the switch mechanism.
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#2 Chamby

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 10:01

Has anyone tested these points when wired up yet? To my eye, the insulation gap on the wing rails is very close to the intersection, it makes me wonder if some RTR wheels might bridge both wing rails just before the insulation gap, creating a short. The implication being that accurate back-to-back measurements may prove to be more critical with these points than many users of RTR stock and turnouts may be used to!

It does make me wonder why the break is so close to the frog, presumably it simplifies construction by avoiding the need for a kink in the wing rail sections. But I am used to placing the insulation break further away from the opposite rail.

I am sure that Peco must have tested this configuration extensively, so I am for now assuming it will work as intended with all my RTR stock. But there is that niggling question!

Phil.
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#3 Nile

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 10:19

The break is where it is to minimise the dead section for those that don't wire up the unifrog.


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#4 Oldddudders

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 10:25

Has anyone tested these points when wired up yet? To my eye, the insulation gap on the wing rails is very close to the intersection, it makes me wonder if some RTR wheels might bridge both wing rails just before the insulation gap, creating a short. The implication being that accurate back-to-back measurements may prove to be more critical with these points than many users of RTR stock and turnouts may be used to!

It does make me wonder why the break is so close to the frog, presumably it simplifies construction by avoiding the need for a kink in the wing rail sections. But I am used to placing the insulation break further away from the opposite rail.

I am sure that Peco must have tested this configuration extensively, so I am for now assuming it will work as intended with all my RTR stock. But there is that niggling question!

Phil.

 

A quick dollop of nail varnish can limit the effect. Much used on Peco Code 83 points. I use clear but others might prefer their favourite shade....


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#5 andyman7

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 10:27

I feel a boxfile layout coming on......



#6 The Bigbee Line

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 10:59

 .....there is a sort of clamp/stopper on the fourth sleeper up from the switch mechanism.

The 'clamp/stopper' is a block to support the switch rail from moving out of gauge.  They are bolted to the closure rail and most slide chairs are fitted.  So easy to add where not moulded in.  Better to be able to add the missing piece that to have to chop out bits.

 

Thanks for the useful pictures..


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#7 Tim Dubya

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 10:59

A few comprises, as has been said but an excellent edition to the RTP range of track. I do hope these sell sufficiently to warrant Peco extending the range. I could do with a brace of medium radius and at the rate I'm progressing on my train set they may well catch up with each other.

Oh...

Is the wiring diagram idiot proof?
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#8 The Bigbee Line

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 11:09

These are the blocks on a flatbottom turnout.  Note the fixed block that stops the switch from moving longitudinally.  Bull head have a Z bar to do the same job.

 

blocks.jpg


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#9 bertiedog

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 12:55

Just had the first points arrive and laid on the layout, works perfectly with all wheels made to standard size and BB. I tested RP25, Hornby, and other current makes and they work fine.

 

The point is less robust out of the pack than other Peco codes, but just as strong fixed down on the layout.

 

Personally I feel the lack of self isolating as standard is going to confuse some users, just because it is different, It does not affect me.

 

The appearance is good, there are compromises, but if your that offended buy another make or build the point, probably at twice the cost.

 

It is certainly the best RTL commercial point ever offered to railway modellers.

 

Big but though, when are the rest coming?


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#10 John ks

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 13:25

Has anyone tested these points when wired up yet? To my eye, the insulation gap on the wing rails is very close to the intersection, it makes me wonder if some RTR wheels might bridge both wing rails just before the insulation gap, creating a short. The implication being that accurate back-to-back measurements may prove to be more critical with these points than many users of RTR stock and turnouts may be used to!

It does make me wonder why the break is so close to the frog, presumably it simplifies construction by avoiding the need for a kink in the wing rail sections. But I am used to placing the insulation break further away from the opposite rail.

I am sure that Peco must have tested this configuration extensively, so I am for now assuming it will work as intended with all my RTR stock. But there is that niggling question!

Phil.

 

Chamby

 

From looking at AJ427's images & if I understand your comments correctly I don't think the gaps will be a problem with regards to shorts (of coarse I could be completely wrong)

 

I agree that the back to back measurement will be critical especially if they are under gauge.

 

I have used one of AJ427's images to highlight the polarity of each rail.

In the first image the unifrog (painted grey) is not connected & will be dead. (electrically)

The next 2 images show the polarity of the unifrog when switched using a point controlled switch to power the unifrog for each direction

 

insulfrog.jpg

 

 

I think Peco did a much better job of the unifrogs in the bullhead point than they did with the Code 83 double slip

 

John


Edited by John ks, 05 November 2017 - 13:34 .

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#11 Chamby

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 14:25

Thanks John, I think that illustrates my point well.  Compared to the Streamline Electrofrog we are all used to, which has the break much closer to the centre of the 4 foot:

 

IMG_1791.jpg

 

The break is where it is to minimise the dead section for those that don't wire up the unifrog.

 

OK I get that... but I'm hoping it hasn't created another problem instead!  Time will tell.



#12 TrevorP1

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 14:27

Grateful thanks to 'AJ' for taking the trouble to photograph and post. I'm glad I waited for these.

 

My only problem is that my project is now in store due to a house move next month. But I will need quite a few so I can get some 'in stock', maybe build a trial section with point motor, and bash on at a pace when the new railway room is ready.



#13 coachmann

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 14:40

How about a view looking along the track so that we can compare the chaired appearance wit th'older Streamline points.....  :tender:


Edited by coachmann, 05 November 2017 - 14:40 .

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#14 Mallard60022

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 15:34

They look very tidy to me.

Philth


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#15 hayfield

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 15:38

If I were reviewing a loco and mention certain discrepancies I doubt if too many would object, so hopefully these thoughts will be taken in the same manner.

 

LET ME SAY ITS A VAST IMPROVEMENT ON THEIR H0 offerings, and should be congratulated for taking notice of what 4 mm scale 00 modellers wanted

 

With the slide chairs they look very good, but why do the tip of the blades not stop on the first slide chair ?

 

The block chairs in the 3PL and 4PL positions are excellent, but why are the last 2 slide chairs which should have the inside chair against the stock rail not been modelled (easy fix though)

 

The common crossing chairs differ to the style I am used to. I could be a copy of a different style though


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#16 bgman

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 16:00

I manage to see on at my local model shop yesterday and my first thoughts were favourable compared to other available products.

 

Looking at the tie bar mechanism it appears to be very similar to those used by Tillig in their points and agree with Bertiedog that if, like the Tillig offerings, they may be less robust until fixed down. That said, I am pleased to see this item now available and wish Peco success with it.


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#17 BlackRat

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 16:20

That'll do nicely!
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#18 Ramblin Rich

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 16:37

Chamby

From looking at AJ427's images & if I understand your comments correctly I don't think the gaps will be a problem with regards to shorts (of coarse I could be completely wrong)

I agree that the back to back measurement will be critical especially if they are under gauge.

I have used one of AJ427's images to highlight the polarity of each rail.
In the first image the unifrog (painted grey) is not connected & will be dead. (electrically)
The next 2 images show the polarity of the unifrog when switched using a point controlled switch to power the unifrog for each direction

insulfrog.jpg


I think Peco did a much better job of the unifrogs in the bullhead point than they did with the Code 83 double slip

John


The issue may be where the closure rails come close together before the small isolation gaps, the back of the wheels would get quite close to the opposite polarity closure rail with the possibility of a short. It depends how much overlap there is. As said, the usual practice is to have the break further along the closure rail, but Peco are being cunning trying to keep the unifrog length to a minimum. Hopefully it's been designed to work optimally, otherwise a small bit of insulating paint on the back of the rails might help!
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#19 theevilpupster

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 17:32

A few comprises, as has been said but an excellent edition to the RTP range of track. I do hope these sell sufficiently to warrant Peco extending the range. I could do with a brace of medium radius and at the rate I'm progressing on my train set they may well catch up with each other.

Oh...

Is the wiring diagram idiot proof?

 

Yes it is  :)


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#20 Merfyn Jones

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 17:35

Anybody know of somebody selling these on a website, not found any on the usual subjects ?


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#21 tender

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 17:40

Anybody know of somebody selling these on a website, not found any on the usual subjects ?

 

 

Kernow had some when I looked earlier today.


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#22 Brinkly

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 17:46

Right, no excuse not to get the cameo finished! 

 

They don't look too bad at all. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick


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#23 Nick G

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 17:53

Anybody know of somebody selling these on a website, not found any on the usual subjects ?

 

 

 I am sure Rhuddlan models will have them by the end of the week. There are some on eBay.



#24 bertiedog

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 18:13

There is no risk of shorting, as long as the BB is correct, the guard rail stops any risk of touching. This is not to say that out of gauge Lima, or wheels with rubber tyres that are worn might risk trouble. Old Tri-ang would fail, as would early Doublo.

It all depends on checking BB's.

An NMRA RP25 wheelset goes through with perfect clearances, and before you state these are American standards, they are the only tried and tested 16.5 track and wheel standard, and are now nearly 60 years old.

 

Stephen


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#25 37114

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 19:07

Glad these are finally here, I can make some progress with the new layout. They look a nice bit of kit but with some obvious compromises. I really can't see how they can be used with dead frogs unless they are in a mainline situation, the distance looks like a Hornby Pug or Sentinel could run over them. With a bit of weathering and careful ballasting they will look great.
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