Jump to content
 

Peco Bullhead Points: in the flesh


AJ427
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'll bet any weirdiness of sleeper spacing or girth will evaporate one the points are embedded in rust-tinted ballast. I say this because I barely noticed the old Code 75 points even though the rest of the system was Peco bullhead track. 

Edited by coachmann
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember Paul Martin of EDM Models telling me a few years ago that he couldn't get Micro-Engineering On30 track from USA as they were waiting for a delivery of rail from Sheffield !!  Apparently there are hardly any manufacturers who are able to turn (draw?) wire into rail and this firm in Sheffield supply almost all track manufacturers.

 

.

 

I am pretty sure it is a firm at Oxspring, just outside Penistone.

 

Wintwire are the chaps. They even have a picture of some FB rail on gallery of products!

http://www.wintwire.co.uk/profile-wire-manufacturers.htm

Edited by LBRJ
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have managed to trim 2 LH turnouts to the correct distance apart for a crossover (54mm track centres, near enough!)

 

Here is one with both rails trimmed, compared with an untouched one.

 

post-26366-0-22698700-1510343740.gif

 

Removing one of the rails is awkward because of the rivet under the rail. I wiggled it out. This leaves the chair distorted, but no problem as I am throwing that part of the sleeper away anyway.

 

post-26366-0-20270300-1510343741.gif

 

The next photo shows the two sets of rails trimmed and sleepers removed.

 

post-26366-0-81810100-1510343741.gif

 

Next, I added the two sleepers removed from the straight tracks back onto the straight tracks but with the short end facing outwards. I shall later add a bit of the discarded sleepers to make them up to proper length. I also straightened the curved rail, which is curved beyond the frog.

 

post-26366-0-41994300-1510343742.gif

 

I then added fishplates and put it together, to look like this...

 

post-26366-0-11842600-1510343743.gif

 

Before I add plain track to the ends I shall need to remove a bit of the straight rail to get the sleepers and fishplates in the right place. A bit more fettling and the lot will be fit for the layout.

 

I was a bit nervous before I started. After all, it is nearly £60 of kit I could have ruined. In the end it was pretty straightforward though. I am quite pleased with the result.

Edited by Echo
  • Like 19
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

A few posts ago there were some comments regarding the slide chairs and the blocks fitted.  Here are some pictures of blocks on a bullhead turnout..

 

attachicon.gifzz 088.JPG

 

attachicon.gifzz 089.JPG

 

attachicon.gifzz 090.JPG

 

Here is the Toe end of one of the switches showing how it stops at the end of the slide chair, ensuring support for the thinner end of the switch.  Note the base plate and it's insulated joint to allow track circuits to function...

 

attachicon.gifzz 087.JPG

 

Finally the Z bar that stops the switch rail moving fore and aft.  Flat bottom has a block bolted between the stock and switch rails.

 

attachicon.gifzz 093.JPG

 

Historically I had an involvement in laying track work at the Botley end of the workshops at Eastleigh.  The point work was purchased as a kit of second hand parts.  I did not realise there were regional variations in how the chairs were laid out....  Just like when planning a model railway it was difficult to fit all the point work in and we ended up with the equivalent of a radius 2 curve at one point

No danger of you getting run over when you took those pics, then!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I bought one today and generally I rather like them.

 

I hadn't realised that the point timbers gradually slant away from 90 degrees to the straight rail, though, and wonder how prototypical that is?

 

Also, has anyone tried re-wiring it so that it behaves like a normal live frog point, rather than this unifrog business? Shouldn't be too difficult, I'd have thought.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No danger of you getting run over when you took those pics, then!

Long out of use.  But when in use it looks like it was clipped for one route.  The 'blobs of stuff' on top of the other rail are Motak, the lubricant from traction motor gear cases.  Other than the fact it never dries, it would make an excellent glue as it sticks better than s4it to a blanket.....

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

I bought one today and generally I rather like them.

 

I hadn't realised that the point timbers gradually slant away from 90 degrees to the straight rail, though, and wonder how prototypical that is?

 

Also, has anyone tried re-wiring it so that it behaves like a normal live frog point, rather than this unifrog business? Shouldn't be too difficult, I'd have thought.

Hi CK

 

According to those in the know, it was a pre-group or pre REA practice to align the timbers transversely on a cord running from the centre of the toe to the tip of the V. The GWR apparently continued this after the other three had gone for the 90 degrees look.   I also understand that some of the modern concrete bearer point work has a similar arrangement.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have managed to trim 2 LH turnouts to the correct distance apart for a crossover (54mm track centres, near enough!)

 

Here is one with both rails trimmed, compared with an untouched one.

 

attachicon.gifaDSCF5079.gif

 

Removing one of the rails is awkward because of the rivet under the rail. I wiggled it out. This leaves the chair distorted, but no problem as I am throwing that part of the sleeper away anyway.

 

attachicon.gifaDSCF5080.gif

 

The next photo shows the two sets of rails trimmed and sleepers removed.

 

attachicon.gifaDSCF5081.gif

 

Next, I added the two sleepers removed from the straight tracks back onto the straight tracks but with the short end facing outwards. I shall later add a bit of the discarded sleepers to make them up to proper length. I also straightened the curved rail, which is curved beyond the frog.

 

attachicon.gifaDSCF5082.gif

 

I then added fishplates and put it together, to look like this...

 

attachicon.gifaDSCF5083.gif

 

Before I add plain track to the ends I shall need to remove a bit of the straight rail to get the sleepers and fishplates in the right place. A bit more fettling and the lot will be fit for the layout.

 

I was a bit nervous before I started. After all, it is nearly £60 of kit I could have ruined. In the end it was pretty straightforward though. I am quite pleased with the result.

That's the spirit!

 

Interest to note how the link wires prevent cutting the wing rails back much further (although can always be re-soldered, I suppose)

 

Got to handle one myself today. Lovely thing and the ability to curved it is quite remarkable - no need for curved or Y points! Bring on the slips - especially the single - next I say.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the spirit!

 

Interest to note how the link wires prevent cutting the wing rails back much further (although can always be re-soldered, I suppose)

 

Got to handle one myself today. Lovely thing and the ability to curved it is quite remarkable - no need for curved or Y points! Bring on the slips - especially the single - next I say.

Difficult to explain easily, but you do have to cut one of the link wires. Doesn't matter though because the other is still there and because you have 2 turnouts back to back everything is still wired up.

 

EDIT

 

Forgot to mention that I am going for DCC, so no sections to worry about. I am using metal rail joiners. Anyone using DC would need to use insulated rail joiners on the crossover, so the wiring I removed would have to be replaced to ensure all the rail is live.

Edited by Echo
Link to post
Share on other sites

I bought one today and generally I rather like them.

 

I hadn't realised that the point timbers gradually slant away from 90 degrees to the straight rail, though, and wonder how prototypical that is?

 

Also, has anyone tried re-wiring it so that it behaves like a normal live frog point, rather than this unifrog business? Shouldn't be too difficult, I'd have thought.

The unifrog is pretty much the same as a live frog. The switchable area is just much smaller than usual. My impression is that if you follow Peco's instructions it will work very well. No need to do any alterations. Just wire up the crossing nose the way you would for a normal live frog turnout.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Has anyone else noticed a difference in gauge between the new Peco bullhead points and C&L finescale track?  I post this simply as an observation, without comment regarding either brand, as without a micrometer it is hard to determine whose gauge is the more accurate.  

 

I first noticed this when joining the two tracks, when the C&L track gauges that I use had to be push-fitted with a bit of a 'click' into the Peco point.  Upon closer inspection it transpires that Peco's point is constructed to a very slightly narrower gauge than C&L's flexitrack, see below.

 

post-25458-0-04209700-1510397436_thumb.jpg  

 

Phil.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone else noticed a difference in gauge between the new Peco bullhead points and C&L finescale track? I post this simply as an observation, without comment regarding either brand, as without a micrometer it is hard to determine whose gauge is the more accurate.

 

I first noticed this when joining the two tracks, when the C&L track gauges that I use had to be push-fitted with a bit of a 'click' into the Peco point. Upon closer inspection it transpires that Peco's point is constructed to a very slightly narrower gauge than C&L's flexitrack, see below.

 

IMG_1800.JPG

 

Phil.

How odd! It looks suspiciously like it might be 16.2mm (please don’t start a fight!). Is anyone able to measure it accurately?
Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you measured the gauge? The Peco chairs appear to be smaller but that may be an illusion created by the sleeper width.

 

Which sleepers are correct to scale or are the timbers of pointwork that much heavier than the plain track?

Edited by Anglian
Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you measured the gauge? The Peco chairs appear to be smaller but that may be an illusion created by the sleeper width.

 

Which sleepers are correct to scale or are the timbers of pointwork that much heavier than the plain track?

 

Plain track timbers are 10" wide and crossing timbers 12".

 

Just measured one of mine, from the package and 16.2mm at appears to be.

Edited by Merfyn Jones
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Have you measured the gauge? The Peco chairs appear to be smaller but that may be an illusion created by the sleeper width.

 

Which sleepers are correct to scale or are the timbers of pointwork that much heavier than the plain track?

 

 

I've only measured the gauge with a pretty basic plastic rule: Peco looks fractionally under 16.5mm, C&L a little more over... but you'd need a micrometer to get an accurate reading.  When joining the two, flaring the Peco rails very slightly at the join ensures a smooth connection and stock runs through this no problem.

 

I think you're right, the chairs look pretty much the same dimensionally, the sleeper width is different and this is prototypical.  The Peco chairs are a crisper moulding though, my photo doesn't do them justice.

 

Phil

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly, I wish P4 was just about track gauge.  Its all those axles, clearances and chassis rebuilds that's the turnoff!   :this:  :O

Actually, OO locos can benefit from some springing or compensation from an electrical pick-up aspect, particularly 0-4-0s and 0-6-0s. Many OO RTR locos just have sloppy axles in an effort to keep the wheels firmly on the track but this is often not enough. Fortunately that's the turn on for me!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Has anyone else noticed a difference in gauge between the new Peco bullhead points and C&L finescale track?  I post this simply as an observation, without comment regarding either brand, as without a micrometer it is hard to determine whose gauge is the more accurate.  

 

I first noticed this when joining the two tracks, when the C&L track gauges that I use had to be push-fitted with a bit of a 'click' into the Peco point.  Upon closer inspection it transpires that Peco's point is constructed to a very slightly narrower gauge than C&L's flexitrack, see below.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_1800.JPG

 

Phil.

Not quite so bad looking if you line up the inside of the railhead, the C&L seems to have a wider head too ;)

post-6968-0-03203300-1510412415.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...