coachmann Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) I'll bet any weirdiness of sleeper spacing or girth will evaporate one the points are embedded in rust-tinted ballast. I say this because I barely noticed the old Code 75 points even though the rest of the system was Peco bullhead track. Edited November 10, 2017 by coachmann 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted November 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 10, 2017 My next purchase will be a 'large' radius turnout, both hands. However, what size drill do you recommend for fishplate boltholes? Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) I remember Paul Martin of EDM Models telling me a few years ago that he couldn't get Micro-Engineering On30 track from USA as they were waiting for a delivery of rail from Sheffield !! Apparently there are hardly any manufacturers who are able to turn (draw?) wire into rail and this firm in Sheffield supply almost all track manufacturers. . I am pretty sure it is a firm at Oxspring, just outside Penistone. Wintwire are the chaps. They even have a picture of some FB rail on gallery of products! http://www.wintwire.co.uk/profile-wire-manufacturers.htm Edited November 10, 2017 by LBRJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) I have managed to trim 2 LH turnouts to the correct distance apart for a crossover (54mm track centres, near enough!) Here is one with both rails trimmed, compared with an untouched one. Removing one of the rails is awkward because of the rivet under the rail. I wiggled it out. This leaves the chair distorted, but no problem as I am throwing that part of the sleeper away anyway. The next photo shows the two sets of rails trimmed and sleepers removed. Next, I added the two sleepers removed from the straight tracks back onto the straight tracks but with the short end facing outwards. I shall later add a bit of the discarded sleepers to make them up to proper length. I also straightened the curved rail, which is curved beyond the frog. I then added fishplates and put it together, to look like this... Before I add plain track to the ends I shall need to remove a bit of the straight rail to get the sleepers and fishplates in the right place. A bit more fettling and the lot will be fit for the layout. I was a bit nervous before I started. After all, it is nearly £60 of kit I could have ruined. In the end it was pretty straightforward though. I am quite pleased with the result. Edited November 10, 2017 by Echo 19 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted November 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 10, 2017 A few posts ago there were some comments regarding the slide chairs and the blocks fitted. Here are some pictures of blocks on a bullhead turnout.. zz 088.JPG zz 089.JPG zz 090.JPG Here is the Toe end of one of the switches showing how it stops at the end of the slide chair, ensuring support for the thinner end of the switch. Note the base plate and it's insulated joint to allow track circuits to function... zz 087.JPG Finally the Z bar that stops the switch rail moving fore and aft. Flat bottom has a block bolted between the stock and switch rails. zz 093.JPG Historically I had an involvement in laying track work at the Botley end of the workshops at Eastleigh. The point work was purchased as a kit of second hand parts. I did not realise there were regional variations in how the chairs were laid out.... Just like when planning a model railway it was difficult to fit all the point work in and we ended up with the equivalent of a radius 2 curve at one point No danger of you getting run over when you took those pics, then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted November 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 10, 2017 I bought one today and generally I rather like them. I hadn't realised that the point timbers gradually slant away from 90 degrees to the straight rail, though, and wonder how prototypical that is? Also, has anyone tried re-wiring it so that it behaves like a normal live frog point, rather than this unifrog business? Shouldn't be too difficult, I'd have thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 No danger of you getting run over when you took those pics, then! Long out of use. But when in use it looks like it was clipped for one route. The 'blobs of stuff' on top of the other rail are Motak, the lubricant from traction motor gear cases. Other than the fact it never dries, it would make an excellent glue as it sticks better than s4it to a blanket..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 10, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 10, 2017 I bought one today and generally I rather like them. I hadn't realised that the point timbers gradually slant away from 90 degrees to the straight rail, though, and wonder how prototypical that is? Also, has anyone tried re-wiring it so that it behaves like a normal live frog point, rather than this unifrog business? Shouldn't be too difficult, I'd have thought. Hi CK According to those in the know, it was a pre-group or pre REA practice to align the timbers transversely on a cord running from the centre of the toe to the tip of the V. The GWR apparently continued this after the other three had gone for the 90 degrees look. I also understand that some of the modern concrete bearer point work has a similar arrangement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 I have managed to trim 2 LH turnouts to the correct distance apart for a crossover (54mm track centres, near enough!) Here is one with both rails trimmed, compared with an untouched one. aDSCF5079.gif Removing one of the rails is awkward because of the rivet under the rail. I wiggled it out. This leaves the chair distorted, but no problem as I am throwing that part of the sleeper away anyway. aDSCF5080.gif The next photo shows the two sets of rails trimmed and sleepers removed. aDSCF5081.gif Next, I added the two sleepers removed from the straight tracks back onto the straight tracks but with the short end facing outwards. I shall later add a bit of the discarded sleepers to make them up to proper length. I also straightened the curved rail, which is curved beyond the frog. aDSCF5082.gif I then added fishplates and put it together, to look like this... aDSCF5083.gif Before I add plain track to the ends I shall need to remove a bit of the straight rail to get the sleepers and fishplates in the right place. A bit more fettling and the lot will be fit for the layout. I was a bit nervous before I started. After all, it is nearly £60 of kit I could have ruined. In the end it was pretty straightforward though. I am quite pleased with the result. That's the spirit! Interest to note how the link wires prevent cutting the wing rails back much further (although can always be re-soldered, I suppose) Got to handle one myself today. Lovely thing and the ability to curved it is quite remarkable - no need for curved or Y points! Bring on the slips - especially the single - next I say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) That's the spirit! Interest to note how the link wires prevent cutting the wing rails back much further (although can always be re-soldered, I suppose) Got to handle one myself today. Lovely thing and the ability to curved it is quite remarkable - no need for curved or Y points! Bring on the slips - especially the single - next I say. Difficult to explain easily, but you do have to cut one of the link wires. Doesn't matter though because the other is still there and because you have 2 turnouts back to back everything is still wired up. EDIT Forgot to mention that I am going for DCC, so no sections to worry about. I am using metal rail joiners. Anyone using DC would need to use insulated rail joiners on the crossover, so the wiring I removed would have to be replaced to ensure all the rail is live. Edited November 10, 2017 by Echo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 I bought one today and generally I rather like them. I hadn't realised that the point timbers gradually slant away from 90 degrees to the straight rail, though, and wonder how prototypical that is? Also, has anyone tried re-wiring it so that it behaves like a normal live frog point, rather than this unifrog business? Shouldn't be too difficult, I'd have thought. The unifrog is pretty much the same as a live frog. The switchable area is just much smaller than usual. My impression is that if you follow Peco's instructions it will work very well. No need to do any alterations. Just wire up the crossing nose the way you would for a normal live frog turnout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted November 11, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2017 Has anyone else noticed a difference in gauge between the new Peco bullhead points and C&L finescale track? I post this simply as an observation, without comment regarding either brand, as without a micrometer it is hard to determine whose gauge is the more accurate. I first noticed this when joining the two tracks, when the C&L track gauges that I use had to be push-fitted with a bit of a 'click' into the Peco point. Upon closer inspection it transpires that Peco's point is constructed to a very slightly narrower gauge than C&L's flexitrack, see below. Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Has anyone else noticed a difference in gauge between the new Peco bullhead points and C&L finescale track? I post this simply as an observation, without comment regarding either brand, as without a micrometer it is hard to determine whose gauge is the more accurate. I first noticed this when joining the two tracks, when the C&L track gauges that I use had to be push-fitted with a bit of a 'click' into the Peco point. Upon closer inspection it transpires that Peco's point is constructed to a very slightly narrower gauge than C&L's flexitrack, see below. IMG_1800.JPG Phil. How odd! It looks suspiciously like it might be 16.2mm (please don’t start a fight!). Is anyone able to measure it accurately? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) Have you measured the gauge? The Peco chairs appear to be smaller but that may be an illusion created by the sleeper width. Which sleepers are correct to scale or are the timbers of pointwork that much heavier than the plain track? Edited November 11, 2017 by Anglian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Gun blue will deal with the wing rails or some rust eating paint..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) Have you measured the gauge? The Peco chairs appear to be smaller but that may be an illusion created by the sleeper width. Which sleepers are correct to scale or are the timbers of pointwork that much heavier than the plain track? Plain track timbers are 10" wide and crossing timbers 12". Just measured one of mine, from the package and 16.2mm at appears to be. Edited November 11, 2017 by Merfyn Jones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted November 11, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2017 Have you measured the gauge? The Peco chairs appear to be smaller but that may be an illusion created by the sleeper width. Which sleepers are correct to scale or are the timbers of pointwork that much heavier than the plain track? I've only measured the gauge with a pretty basic plastic rule: Peco looks fractionally under 16.5mm, C&L a little more over... but you'd need a micrometer to get an accurate reading. When joining the two, flaring the Peco rails very slightly at the join ensures a smooth connection and stock runs through this no problem. I think you're right, the chairs look pretty much the same dimensionally, the sleeper width is different and this is prototypical. The Peco chairs are a crisper moulding though, my photo doesn't do them justice. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted November 11, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2017 Perhaps C&L are taking us all to the 'dark side' of track laying. It's only a hop, skip & jump to P4.... What's a few mil between friends? Play nicely now, people! Have a great weekend everyone, it'll soon be Easter! Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted November 11, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2017 Sadly, I wish P4 was just about track gauge. Its all those axles, clearances and chassis rebuilds that's the turnoff! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Sadly, I wish P4 was just about track gauge. Its all those axles, clearances and chassis rebuilds that's the turnoff! Actually, OO locos can benefit from some springing or compensation from an electrical pick-up aspect, particularly 0-4-0s and 0-6-0s. Many OO RTR locos just have sloppy axles in an effort to keep the wheels firmly on the track but this is often not enough. Fortunately that's the turn on for me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 11, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2017 Has anyone else noticed a difference in gauge between the new Peco bullhead points and C&L finescale track? I post this simply as an observation, without comment regarding either brand, as without a micrometer it is hard to determine whose gauge is the more accurate. I first noticed this when joining the two tracks, when the C&L track gauges that I use had to be push-fitted with a bit of a 'click' into the Peco point. Upon closer inspection it transpires that Peco's point is constructed to a very slightly narrower gauge than C&L's flexitrack, see below. IMG_1800.JPG Phil. Not quite so bad looking if you line up the inside of the railhead, the C&L seems to have a wider head too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted November 11, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2017 So presumably the new Peco track is the same gauge as the point? I don't have any of this track at the moment. Thanks Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 So presumably the new Peco track is the same gauge as the point? I don't have any of this track at the moment. Thanks Phil All Peco bullhead below.....Judge for yourself..... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted November 11, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2017 All Peco bullhead below.....Judge for yourself..... WEB bullhead.jpg Looks good to me; thanks Coach. The sleepers look a bit more 'authentic' and will take weathering in a good way as well IMO. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Anyone got a top 3/4 view of C&L vs Peco BH plain track? I was wondering how the chairs compare, especially on the inside of the rail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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