GWR Autocoach Poll

[Neal Ball]

The list of options has been updated to include earlier Autocoaches. Unfortunately in doing so, I deleted the initial question, please vote again. 

 

 

 

There is already a thread asking hattons to build a new Autocoach, but which one should they (or someone else) commission? The Hornby Autocoach is donkeys old these days and it would be great to see a new model built to the same standards as the new DJM / Hattons 48xx.

The Hawksworth model from Bachmann is lovely, but has a very limited time frame as it was a BR build, not a 1930's GWR.

You will no doubt have a view which particular A diagram should be built, to start the poll off, I am suggesting three carriages that can be scanned. To get 100% accuracy, the ability to scan a project has to add / aid the production process.


Llangollen No. 167 A27 Built 1928/29: http://www.llangollen-railway.org.uk/gwrveh.html

West Somerset No 169 A27 http://www.auto169.co.uk

SVR No. 178 A28 Built 1930 Lot 1410: https://www.svrwiki.com/GWR_178_Autotrailer_Third

Didcot No 190 A30 Built 1933 Lot 1480: http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/coaches/190/190.html

A27 59ft 6" 12 vehicles (159 to 170) were built. Drawing on Pg 146 Jim Russell GWR coaches Part 2

A28: 62ft 6 1/2" 10 vehicles (171 to 180) new built. Drawing on Pg 151

A30: Photos on page 181 - no drawing.

Maybe on the basis that a donation is made to that railway for every model sold? I assume there would usually be a fee for scanning.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Neal Ball

[David Bigcheeseplant]

The Airfix/Hornby model is not a bad model and is mostly a A30 although can be converted to a A28, it seems pointless to want a new A27/A28/A30 as they are very simular, if a new GWR autocoach IS needed something different would be better a 70 footer or something with panelling to take the modelling period back a decade or two .

 

A pointless poll if you are gonna stick to the A27/A28/A30

[Wellyboots]

I have to agree with David on this, both the Airfix/Hornby and the Bachmann models are of similar prototypes so it does seem a little pointless to ask for more of the same. If you want a manufacturer to be interested you're more likely to be successful if what's asked for is obviously different.

[Siberian Snooper]

As I model the mid '20s, non of the current types are suitable for my period.

[woodenhead]

The poll that manufacturers have taken note of was the annual MREMAG/Rmweb one - where did Autocoaches score there.

 

A good score there probably means someone somewhere has something in their sights.

[81C]

Hi Neil

I would prefer something a bit earlier but after a quick browse of Russell's you would be looking at Toplight style coaches or some of the one off conversions from earlier trailers such as No 205.

Chrisf the GWR coach guru or K14 of this parish might be able to point the project in the right direction.

 

good luck Bob

[chrisf]

Guru?  Moi?

 

I see no point whatsoever in scanning an A28 or A30 when the raw material for a model already exists in the venerable Airfix/Hornby hybrid.  So what if it needs improvement?  A good honest bit of modelling will work wonders on it and there is no shortage of information to inform the process.

 

The A27 is a different matter.  This is significantly shorter in almost every dimension than its successors,  the A28/A30, and it would be a brave and/or foolish man who set about slicing the Airfix/Hornby specimen to produce one.  As one who cut his modelling teeth on dicing and slicing Kitmaster coaches in his teens I have to say that it would scare the bejasus out of me! 

  

I think that the books on auto trailers by John Lewis are a much better source of reference and inspiration than Russell.  Whichever source you consult you will find that the only design of [G]WR trailer produced in quantity was the post nationalisation A38/A44 as modelled by Bachmann and on all its variants there were only 25 of them.  Very few diagrams clocked up more than 10 specimens.  If scanning is to be the weapon of choice it follows that only those which exist and are accessible are suitable for scanning.  I would be wary of 70 ft prototypes if only because a lot of layouts have sharp curves on which long coaches look faintly ridiculous.  It is worth recalling that by far the majority of trailers lasted into the 1950s in service and many lived again in departmental use.

 

I would also check which kits are available before wastefully duplicating any of them in rtr form.

 

Chris

[BMacdermott]

The poll that manufacturers have taken note of was the annual MREMAG/Rmweb one - where did Autocoaches score there.

 

A good score there probably means someone somewhere has something in their sights.

Hello Woodenhead

 

In the 2016 Poll, the Autocoaches (and B-set for comparison) fared as below:

 

High Polling Segment:

230 votes: GWR B-set (1930-1931, 1933-1936)

202 votes: GWR Autocoach - Steel-panelled Collett (Diags.A27,A28,A30 of 1928-1932)

199 votes: GWR Autocoach - Wood-panelled 70ft (e.g. Diags.E, L, P, T and U of 1905)

197 votes: GWR Autocoach - Wood-panelled 59ft 6in (Diags.J & N of 1906/7)

193 votes: GWR Autocoach - Wood-panelled Ex-Steam Railmotor 70ft (Diag.A26 of 1928-1936)

 

Middle Polling Segment:

132 votes: (GWR) Autocoach - BR-built (Diag.A44 of 1955)

 

To put all that in context, 230 votes was not far off The Top 50 items; all the High Polling items were within the top 150 items.

 

Brian Macdermott (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[woodenhead]

Thanks Brian

 

So here is the definitive position I would say as neither of these have had new items introduced since the poll was last taken so will still be representative of the wider hobby view (rather than a straw poll RMWeb view).

 

I might be wrong but I don't think that is 800 votes for an Autocoach but around 200 as people will most likely have multi-selected across the range of options with some people in each dataset requiring a specific version(s).

[The Johnster]

I think it is fair to say that most of the posters to the 'Dear Hatton's' thread are after a pre Collett auto trailer; I certainly am!  As many of these are panelled, they are a less than easy scratchbuild.  If I were in the trade and looking for a new RTR production, I would ignore my personal wishlist preference for a diagram N (produced in 7mm by Lionheart/Dapol), and go for diagram L, a 70 foot monster that was the most numerous type produced, widely spread across the region, carrying all liveries from 1906 to the mid 50s, and available on a variety of bogies including Collett 7 foot which is already produced by Hornby.  One even had gangways.

 

Producing other bogie types and making them separately available might turn a profit as well, as they would be much in demand by scratchbuilders and bodgers like myself.

[longchap]

As has already been said, the old Airfix and subsequent derivatives are not that shabby and the Dart Castings kit certainly makes them much better, so we're not too badly off for the later steel bodied stock.

 

The real gap is with earlier trailers and something with wood panelling would go down a treat with many GWR modellers.

 

However, if the preferred route to market is driven only by scanning an available prototype, I guess the earlier diagrams will continue to be overlooked and that's a sad situation, as many early trailers were in use throughout the 1950s and into the 60s.

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

[Miss Prism]

Scanning alone can produce disasters, as we have seen on numerous occasions. The drawings and photos in the Lewis books, supplemented by intelligent and selective use of scans of contemporary vehicles (SRM93, Toplights etc) would be the correct route to an unpreserved autocoach in my view. Some prospective manufacturers might feel this was too much work though.

 

And thanks for the poll results, Brian - it's interesting that Bachmann's focus on era took precedence over the number of votes in the poll.

[Steamport Southport]

 

I would also check which kits are available before wastefully duplicating any of them in rtr form.

 

Chris

 

To be honest there isn't really much currently available as kits apart from two Comet kits. The Hawksworth design as made by Bachmann (A38 - 40/43) and the 1955 A44 conversions from D117s.

 

Also the Clifton Down set from Roxey Mouldings.

 

I think Worsley make a few side and end etches, but not as full kits. They seem to be more like scratch aids.

 

 

Personally I would be as happy with a decent kit as a RTR version. But that's not going to sell to the vast majority that bought the DJM 14xx.

 

 

Jason

[David Bigcheeseplant]

To be honest there isn't really much currently available as kits apart from two Comet kits. The Hawksworth design as made by Bachmann (A38 - 40/43) and the 1955 A44 conversions from D117s.

 

Also the Clifton Down set from Roxey Mouldings.

 

I think Worsley make a few side and end etches, but not as full kits. They seem to be more like scratch aids.

 

 

Personally I would be as happy with a decent kit as a RTR version. But that's not going to sell to the vast majority that bought the DJM 14xx.

 

 

Jason

 

David Geen makes the diagram L & P while CPL do an A27, A28 and & L, plus there where a number done by Blacksmith now Coopercraft but best not go there!

Edited November 6, 2017 by David Bigcheeseplant

[BG John]

Which era do you model?

1. 1920's
2. 1930 - shirt button era
3. WW2
4. 1940's pre Nationalisation
5. BR 1950's steam

Early 1900s. No point answering the other questions if I'm not allowed to answer the first one .

[Steamport Southport]

David Geen makes the diagram L & P while CPL do an A27, A28 and & L, plus there where a number done by Blacksmith now Coopercraft but best not go there!

 

I didn't put any of those as I didn't think that they are available.

 

 

 

Jason

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I didn't put any of those as I didn't think that they are available.

 

 

 

Jason

 

The CPL ones are and I am sure David Geen ones two

[Neal Ball]

Scanning alone can produce disasters, as we have seen on numerous occasions. The drawings and photos in the Lewis books, supplemented by intelligent and selective use of scans of contemporary vehicles (SRM93, Toplights etc) would be the correct route to an unpreserved autocoach in my view. Some prospective manufacturers might feel this was too much work though.

 

And thanks for the poll results, Brian - it's interesting that Bachmann's focus on era took precedence over the number of votes in the poll.

 

Thanks Miss Prism. If we ignore scanning a vehicle, which diagram A would you suggest?

 

Which era do you model?

 

• 1920's
• 1930 - shirt button era
• WW2
• 1940's pre Nationalisation
• BR 1950's steam

Early 1900s. No point answering the other questions if I'm not allowed to answer the first one .

I have added a pre1920 option. Edited November 6, 2017 by Neal Ball

[Neal Ball]

12 hours down and there are 12 votes and a healthy discussion about the merits of a new model.

 

There are a number of people who would like to see a new model, I for one am finding my old Airfix autocoac( doesn5 quite cu5 the mustard when compared to the new Collet carriages!

[TheSignalEngineer]

I need another autocoach but I am not interested in another flush panelled one. I have two Hawksworths and an old airfix one awaiting modification. My preference would be a 4mm version of the new Dapol 7mm Diagram N in early BR state. My line used 70ft ones but they are a bit long to use on a model in a confined space.

[ady77014]

If you want to study a pre-grouping Auto-trailer, isn't there number 38? although she's not serviceable.

[BG John]

I have added a pre1920 option.

Thanks, but there's no relevant option in the last question, and it won't let me vote without answering it.

[exet1095]

You have left off the option of a 70-footer, despite the existence of 92 at Didcot (and the SRM, which spent rather longer as a trailer). So, I'm afraid I can't join the poll.

[Legend]

Interesting and quite clear. Lowest cost possible , if I could have voted less than £50 , I would have. Also less interest in lights and passengers. Hope Bachmann takes note

[57xx]

I'll be holding off voting until there's a better choice of diagrams, agree with previous points that the A27/28/30 are too similar and would much prefer some earlier diagrams to choose from.