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New Hornby 14xx

14xx




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#1 KGV

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 21:07

The new 2017 Hornby 14xx is now in the shops.

 

I have had an old Airfix/GMR 14xx since 1983 and it has never run well and recently completely conked out (shredded gears I think).  However, it was the first locomotive I ever purchased with my own money and therefore one of my favourite engines.

 

I have the new DJM/Hattons 48xx and 58xx but did not want to throw away my treasured 14xx.

So I decided to buy the new Hornby effort to replace the chassis on my old Airfix body.  And doing this would cost 1/3 the price of the new superior DJM model.

 

The new chassis fits exactly under the old body.  The only issue is the chimney screw is of a different diameter/thread so I used the new chimney and screw with the old body and new chassis.

 

My old Airfix body is even better than the new R3589 variant - which is GWR livery and has a superfluous blank smokebox numberplate. 

 

It is a little noisy for modern standards; it still has the annoying traction tyres (but a far better profile than on my old model) and is a little tight through my Peco Streamline Code 100 points so I will check the back-back when I have more time.

 

But overall I am very pleased.  My favourite engine is running far better than it ever has in the last 35 years, for 15 mins work. 

And now you cannot see the motor through the cab windows.

Excellent.
 

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#2 meatloaf

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 10:16

have they put a dcc socket in it?



#3 KGV

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 11:42

have they put a dcc socket in it?

 

There is a large weight that the fills the boiler and the motor is in the firebox.

There is room for a DCC chip in the cab but no socket that I recall seeing.


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#4 KGV

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 18:57

 is a little tight through my Peco Streamline Code 100 points so I will check the back-back when I have more time.

 

This indeed was caused by the back-back being a tad too close on the rear trailing wheels.  This was exacerbated by the pick-up wipers being at rail level such that the engine gets stuck at the check rails on most turnouts.  I eased out the rear wheels and now runs much better.


Edited by KGV, 12 November 2017 - 20:38 .

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#5 Monkey28

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 19:24

You must have been lucky to get a good 14xx

there’s been a lot of problems with the driving wheels one set being lower than the other. Hornby have withdrawn them from sale

See this post from the Hornby forum for more information https://www.hornby.c...lroad-14xx/?p=1

#6 Ian Hargrave

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 20:11

You must have been lucky to get a good 14xx
there’s been a lot of problems with the driving wheels one set being lower than the other. Hornby have withdrawn them from sale
See this post from the Hornby forum for more information https://www.hornby.c...lroad-14xx/?p=1


Sorry,where does withdrawn from sale appear ? Please explain this.

#7 81C

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 20:19

This indeed was caused by the back-back being a tad too close on the rear pony truck.  This was exacerbated by the pick-up wipers being at rail level such that the engine gets stuck at the check rails on most turnouts.  I eased out the rear wheels and now runs much better.

What pony truck    :scratchhead: , it doesn't have one.


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#8 Monkey28

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 20:26

Sorry,where does withdrawn from sale appear ? Please explain this.


Most of the 14xx don’t sit on the track properly and have no traction

Hornby have withdrawn them from sale as there’s a manufacturing defect they have asked for dealers to return them and people who have already received one have been told to return them if they are having problems with them

Maybe they will go back to China for rework it doesn’t sound like it’s a fix they can do in the uk

#9 Legend

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 20:59

Yes indeed it does look like there is a problem with this loco. Either the trailing wheels are too low or the driving wheels are not correctly positioned. Either way it appears that the drivers with traction tyres are not making proper contact with the rail. At the moment the line appears to be its only certain batches, so anyone that’s got one would be well advised to test it ASAP and return it to dealer if it’s showing signs of poor traction. Unfortunate for Hornby , but again drives home the point that they really need to do something about QC. It’s totally failed here if defective batches have got to the customer. I’m almost tempted to enquire if there is any QC in place at all or are we the customer it?
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#10 Ian Hargrave

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 21:26

Most of the 14xx don’t sit on the track properly and have no traction
Hornby have withdrawn them from sale as there’s a manufacturing defect they have asked for dealers to return them and people who have already received one have been told to return them if they are having problems with them
Maybe they will go back to China for rework it doesn’t sound like it’s a fix they can do in the uk


The question asked is ....where do you source the information that Hornby have withdrawn this model from sale ? Is this on the Hornby website ? Please evidence .

#11 JohnR

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:18

Theres nothing on the Hornby website about this - and of course a special edition of this model will be available at Warley soon.


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#12 Hroth

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:27

The question asked is ....where do you source the information that Hornby have withdrawn this model from sale ? Is this on the Hornby website ? Please evidence .

Well, I can substantiate tha fact that there is a problem with the new (general release) 14xx.  The one I received just sat on the track and hummed.  My retailer informed me that Hornby knew of the problem, that it affects approximately 50% of the models and that they were recalling them to be sent back to China.  Mine went back to the retailer for a full refund.

 

Its a pity as I wanted an inexpensive 14xx so I could retire my old Airfix one!


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#13 Ian Hargrave

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:00

This being the case,it might be helpful if any of our retail members could shed some light on this.


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#14 JohnR

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:34

Well, I can substantiate tha fact that there is a problem with the new (general release) 14xx.  The one I received just sat on the track and hummed.  My retailer informed me that Hornby knew of the problem, that it affects approximately 50% of the models and that they were recalling them to be sent back to China.  Mine went back to the retailer for a full refund.

 

Its a pity as I wanted an inexpensive 14xx so I could retire my old Airfix one!

 

I dont think anyone is questioning that there is a problem with some of these models. Merely that there doesnt seem to be any evidence that Hornby have issued a recall. 


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#15 JSpencer

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:11

Previous runs always had the trailing axle sprung (Airfix, Dapol and Hornby alike). Reading the above, and having already observed the same on their last Terriers, have they now made the trailing axle fixed (i.e no longer sprung)?

 

I have to say that both Bachmann and Hornby have removed sprung axles in recent years. A feature I found aided running qualities and pick ups a lot.


Edited by JSpencer, 13 November 2017 - 12:12 .

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#16 Miss Prism

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:25

The Airfix trailing axle was sprung?????



#17 Silver Sidelines

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 13:57

I guess whether or not it had spring is all in the eye of the beholder

The Airfix trailing axle was sprung?????

All the Airfix 14xx models that I have had apart had a little springy piece of phosphor bronze pressing against the rear axle.

38358191722_f26c3e4211_c.jpg
Airfix 14xx chassis deconstructed

Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines, 13 November 2017 - 15:33 .

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#18 The Johnster

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 14:59

That's the infamous sprung plunger pickup, not a spring on the axle, and a very good photo of it.  These looked like a good idea at the time, enabling a very light pressure on the wheel tread and reliable pick up without a braking effect, and hence a very smooth running model, but over time crud got into the housings and they jammed up.  

 

Looks like H have scored an own goal with this loco, and my plans for 1421 are on hold until it is sorted (on the other hand if Lord and Butler have one in stock and it runs properly on their test track..).  I am not clear on the cause of it, but apparently a manufacturing fault with the chassis block means that not all of the wheels sit properly on the track.  This could be because the block is out of square, or that the wheel channels are not of the same depth.  The rubber traction tyres are no help, and will always prevent the best possible pickup; they are a waste of time on a 14xx which rarely needs to pull more than one auto trailer anyway.  I hate traction tyres, and every model I've ever had with them runs better when I cut them off.  Haulage is not as big an issue as good running on my small BLT.

 

Sprung axles are not always the boon they seem to be; my Hornby 2721 has the rear axle sprung by a pair of springs bearing directly down on the axle; this was a cause of lumpy running until I filed the ends of the springs a little.  They are still too powerful, and lift the rear of the loco slightly.  H suggest cutting them down in their instruction sheet, but that sound like a guaranteed recipe for at least one of them pinging off into another space-time continuum.  The answer is to ballast the bunker as heavily as possible, and hope the front of the loco doesn't lift!


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#19 Silver Sidelines

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 15:35

Hi 'The Johnster'!
 
I have updated my picture with a big white arrow to highlight the phosphor bronze spring that rubs on the axle. Quite separate from the sprung brass pick up that rubs against the back of the wheel.
 

That's the infamous sprung plunger pickup, not a spring on the axle, and a very good photo of it.  ..ft!

 
Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines, 13 November 2017 - 15:37 .

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#20 darren01

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 17:09

Pity they do not do any BR versions.



#21 Miss Prism

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 17:12

Thanks, Ray. (If they'd kept the trailing axle rigid, but sprung the two driving axles, the running would have been 100% better!)


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#22 Silver Sidelines

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 17:27

I hadn't thought about springing the drivers,  Maybe that is why my model without traction tyres was only 'nearly very good'!

Thanks, Ray. (If they'd kept the trailing axle rigid, but sprung the two driving axles, the running would have been 100% better!)

 

Ray



#23 railroadbill

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 17:28

I've just had an email from rails of Sheffield about the 2 I've ordered. They have returned their whole batch to Hornby because the wiper pickups on the trailing wheels have been made too long. They expect the corrected locos to be back with them soon. So not getting mine just yet....

By the way only the airfix locos had plunger pickups. They can be made to work with a lot of TCL, (get the plunger to move freely) and a spot of electolube. My original airfix one is now surprisingly reliable (many years after I first bought it for £6.50 or thereabouts in 1981...)
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#24 Derails Models

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:40

I can confirm these models have been withdrawn from sale by Hornby and retailers are being reccommended to test all of the models they have and act accordingly if they are indeed faulty.

 

We've tested all of ours here and although they run reasonanbly well light engine, as soon as you add a load (two wagons in our case) it just grinds to a stop - and that's if it manages to pull away first. The issue we can see is that the rear driving wheel, which utilises the tractions tyres and therefore provides most of the traction, seems to be 1mm too high and therefore sits above the railhead and does not make contact with it. 

 

I must stress that it is only part of the batch that are affected (unfortunately that happens to be all of ours) and if anyone is thinking of buying one, I would head to your local shop and make sure the retailer tests it under load before you hand your cash over - you may find a good one, you may find a bad one.

 

Hornby have advised we return all affected models for credit and they seem to be saying they'll be sent back to China for rebuilding - whether we'll ever see them again remains to be seen...


Edited by Derails Models, 14 November 2017 - 09:41 .

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#25 Ian Hargrave

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:15

Thank you Dan for that and for saving us a pile of grief.At least we now know exactly what the problem is.At least you won't be out of pocket.










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