New Hornby 14xx

[BWsTrains]

Finally had time to investigate the issues with this little beast tonight.

Hi,

 

happy to report that I managed to get one from the "good" batch, tested pre-shipping to Aus by the supplier (now sold out).

Runs like a charm, I added DCC and it creeps along even better than my prized 57xx from B. Points no problem, faintest wheel slip on a more pacy start but no problem as this is perfect for my flat single Autocoach demand.

 

What I would appreciate is any tips regarding access to the axles, I removed the 3 screws but the bottom plate was reluctant to move far except for a few mm at the rear. I'm guessing some lugs are holding it firmly in place

[adb968008]

Hi,

 

happy to report that I managed to get one from the "good" batch, tested pre-shipping to Aus by the supplier (now sold out).

Runs like a charm, I added DCC and it creeps along even better than my prized 57xx from B. Points no problem, faintest wheel slip on a more pacy start but no problem as this is perfect for my flat single Autocoach demand.

 

What I would appreciate is any tips regarding access to the axles, I removed the 3 screws but the bottom plate was reluctant to move far except for a few mm at the rear. I'm guessing some lugs are holding it firmly in place

The screw is convienently hidden... in the chimney !

 

When you remove the chassis, also undo the pipes which run from under the body and clip into the chassis (1either side), they just clip in no glue.

Edited January 21, 2018 by adb968008

[Coppercap]

The screw is convienently hidden... in the chimney !

When you remove the chassis, also undo the pipes which run from under the body and clip into the chassis (1either side), they just clip in no glue.

That's to remove the body from the chassis, not the bottom plate to access the axles. I think it's fair to assume the body's already off...

[The Johnster]

The screw is convienently hidden... in the chimney !

 

When you remove the chassis, also undo the pipes which run from under the body and clip into the chassis (1either side), they just clip in no glue.

 

This used to be the default method of fixing bodies back in the day, with Hornby Dublo, Triang, and Trix using the method.  Lugs at the rear of the chassis engaged with the body which was fixed with the screw down the chimney.  I have forgotten how it was managed on Triang's 'with smoke' (Seuthe) locos.  One of the first things I did as a 'proper' modeller (someone who had build a Ratio 4 wheeler which ran) (a 'real' modeller was someone who'd painted it in fully lined Dean livery) was to paint the brass screws matt black so that looking down the chimney was more realistic...

[railroadbill]

Further to adb968008's excellent analysis of the different 14xx models. I've finally managed to buy a second hand older version Hornby 14xx  (shiny chimney). The rear carrying wheels are lightly sprung with a lot of free up and down movement.  Unlike the latest version type I bought and  returned, the driving wheels on this one have no fore and aft slack so they don't wobble. 

The loco runs very well, so that sprung rear axle does the trick.  (Plus decent pickups).

[BWsTrains]

The screw is convienently hidden... in the chimney !

 

When you remove the chassis, also undo the pipes which run from under the body and clip into the chassis (1either side), they just clip in no glue.

Hi,

 

Sorry my question was not totally precise, Coppercap has it spot on that I've negotiated getting the body off, I worked that out from the generic service sheet in order to add the DCC chip.

 

Where I ran into a problem was in lifting the bottom plate away (down) from the motor / chassis assembly so I can access the axles. As noted I've removed the three screws in this plate. Would appreciate help here as I encountered a fair amount of physical resistance and didn't want to snap anything.

 

Colin

[BWsTrains]

Further to adb968008's excellent analysis of the different 14xx models. I've finally managed to buy a second hand older version Hornby 14xx  (shiny chimney). The rear carrying wheels are lightly sprung with a lot of free up and down movement.  Unlike the latest version type I bought and  returned, the driving wheels on this one have no fore and aft slack so they don't wobble. 

The loco runs very well, so that sprung rear axle does the trick.  (Plus decent pickups).

Clearly some distinct batch differences with this model as mine has no detectable fore / aft movement and as noted runs very smoothly (to my modest specs anyway).

 

My rear axle has very limited vertical travel unlike your older version so I'm wondering if there's a stiff spring, no room for spring? All will be revealed when I get inside to access the axles (see #156). I'll report what differences if any there are from what adb has reported.

Meanwhile, I'm totally happy with the running performance of mine

[railroadbill]

A query about 14xx liveries. I think there are people on this thread who may know. I've seen pictures of 1409 in unlined  green with BR late emblem (one of the Hattons ones is like this). This doesn't have top feed. Were there any no-topfeed locos in plain green with early BR emblems?  I can't find any pictures in my books or on internet sites so far.

 

This is because I'm thinking of finishing off my Ks 14xx   (in plain green e/e) and my other 2 14xx (Airfix and Hornby) are lined BR L/E.  So roughly same era but bit different would be good. Failing that 1409 in l/e would work of course. Any info or sources I could access please?

[BWsTrains]

Railroadbill,

 

you might try asking on the " Hattons announce 14xx / 48xx / 58xx" topic which has 50+ followers vs the modest 5 diehards here

 

[The Johnster]

The Hatton's is available in a wider variety of liveries as well; you pays your money and takes your choice!

[IamDaniel]

I emailed Hornby about this issue and they replied that they are awaiting new, presumably thicker, traction tyres.

 

Did they give any indication on when they may arrive? And will we need to buy them ourselves or email Hornby to ask them to send the new tyres out?

[adb968008]

Apologies for the delay here’s how to remove the body...

 

1. Unscrew the chimney screw

2. Unclip the pipes from the body to the chassis, front and rear, both sides

3. Tip out the front of the chassis from under the chimney and slide the chassis away from the footplate. There’s a small lip the chassis rests on, from behind the bufferbeam.

Edited January 29, 2018 by adb968008

[BWsTrains]

Apologies for the delay here’s how to remove the body...

 

1. Unscrew the chimney screw

DEEB9827-E2E2-4975-84EA-F397395E1744.jpeg

2. Unclip the pipes from the body to the chassis, front and rear, both sides 9E3320FE-42E3-4C8E-AF96-8496B229803C.jpeg

3. Tip out the front of the chassis from under the chimney and slide the chassis away from the footplate. There’s a small lip the chassis rests on, from behind the bufferbeam.302C0022-35A9-475A-B5CD-3ABE074092C6.jpeg

Thanks John,

 

I'm already past the stages you list here. What I'm after is explained in a reply to your latest PM,

 

Colin

[adb968008]

Heres a bit deeper ..

 

1. Unscrew the 3 bottom face plate screws.

2. Unscrew the screw next to the motor on the chassis (in blue below) and then lift the motor from its retainer, to give the wires some movement latitude (in yellow),I had a bit of mastic holding my wires to the chassis, I just lifted it off, then turned the motor horizontal (red below) and pushed it toward the gears to make the wiring loose (unless you want to just cut the wires and resolder later)

3. At each end the faceplate has two lugs holding the faceplate to the chassis, under the coupling. Remove the couplings, (pull out) then using a small screwdriver nudge the faceplate lug from under the chassis on both sides, repeat at both ends.

3. Now you can lift the base place away (turn it sideways and it gives you access to the chassis).

Here’s with the X8064 springs from peters spares fitted, of note the little spring under the driving wheel: fitting that one may as may have taken my performance improvement away ! I think i’ll stick with 1 spring on the back wheel only.

Edited January 29, 2018 by adb968008

[railroadbill]

to give the wires some movement latitude (in yellow),I has a bit of mastics holding my wife’s to the chassis, [/url]

This thread continues to be very interesting. Excellent model engineering by adb968008, however sticking your wife to the underside of the chassis does sound a bit extreme I'm afraid.

:-)

Edited January 29, 2018 by railroadbill

[The Johnster]

This thread continues to be very interesting. Excellent model engineering by adb968008, however sticking your wife to the underside of the chassis does sound a bit extreme I'm afraid.

:-)

 

Not in the least; I take it you never met my ex, but the underside of a chassis would have been a good place for her...

 

Bitter, me???

[adb968008]

This thread continues to be very interesting. Excellent model engineering by adb968008, however sticking your wife to the underside of the chassis does sound a bit extreme I'm afraid.

:-)

Oops iPhone typing at its best !

 

I do however recommend to have plenty of “wife” in stock, they come in useful for all kinds of things, but they can come unstuck occasionally too, usually at the very moment you don’t want them too. Sell by dates wildly vary, so if you can handle them, multiple can be useful, failing that have one, and keep substitute brands on the side.

Edited January 29, 2018 by adb968008

[BWsTrains]

Took a gnats doo dah off the front axle slot and the little loco is as good as gold.

 

If middle wheels / axle sit 0.25mm too high, simple trig says that a "gnat's doo dah" is in this case 0.5mm as the middle axle is close to the mid point of the triangle. The removal can be via either front or rear axle, whichever is easier or more cosmetically appealing.

 

WRT my own model the gap at the middle axle is ~0.1mm, barely enough to matter except at the odd spot around the layout where I can get wheel slip. Thanks to latest help from adb968008 I will access, file down and add a spring.

 

Colin 

Edited January 30, 2018 by BWsTrains

[tomparryharry]

I've had a look, but a bit puzzled...

 

This gnats doo-dah. Is it imperial, or metric?

 

Is it European, or from elsewhere?

 

Does the gnat know?

 

gnaturally, it's gnormal to have this sort of gnowledge....

[BWsTrains]

Finally had time to investigate the issues with this little beast tonight......

 

 

 

So the solution, I found is two fold...

 

1.. fold inwards the pickups, at the bend, so they retain hold of the trailing wheel (I didn’t need to do this with the driving wheels),this avoids the hard bounce on the points, and additionally solves the loss of contact on the curves.

2. Buy yourself a Hornby X8064 spring from Peters spares for £1.43 direct, or £1.52 on ebay...

No filing necessary, despite the 1mm difference gap, but whilst it will triple the performance, it’s just not the DJ version.

 

It looks like Hornby tried to save money by removing the spring, betting on a 1mm less axlebox hole doing the job of the spring, without considering the weight distribution of this model is uneven and additionally reducing the gauge of the wire to the pickups (I think this is here nor there on impact), but now toeing out the pickups on the trailing wheels does mean a loss of contact on curves, and the spear hitting the points...

 

Now I've had time to follow up on my model which unlike others' ran well out of the box, I had just the faintest hint of wheel slip with a 480g, 3 Coach load (more than I'll normally run). Tempting fate I followed adb's excellent help getting everything apart then:

 

1) I filed down the required ~0.5mm of the back axle slot to align axles

2) Inserting a spring on back axle does improves overall running but only if I cut the spring down to very few turns. Beyond that performance deteriorated, there is a sweet spot with just modest downwards pressure on the rear axle

3) Tried a front spring as as per adb, found it deteriorates running however short

4) adjusted the pickups while I was there. They were not causing trouble but it makes sense to bring them up higher on the rims away from the track line(front, rear)

 

So, in summary, adb was spot on and my little 48xx navigates all corners of the layout without a stutter.

 

thanks again for the help, I've learnt a lot working thru this exercise

 

Colin

Edited March 13, 2018 by BWsTrains

[railroadbill]

As a replacement for the 2 new 14xx models I bought and returned because of poor running, I now have 2 earlier Hornby 14xx models via e-bay. They both run very well, no stalling anywhere at all.  One was mint, the other slight box damage. They will need the shiny metal chimneys painted black though (and renumbering).  The re-engineering of the current ones as described by adb968008 and BWs trains is something I'll have to miss, but I do have 2 well running 14xx locos which was my original intention.

Job done.

 

 

 

 

A trio of 14xxs, my old  Airfix one at front, 2x Hornby behind.

 

[BWsTrains]

As a replacement for the 2 new 14xx models I bought and returned because of poor running, I now have 2 earlier Hornby 14xx models via e-bay. They both run very well, no stalling anywhere at all.  One was mint, the other slight box damage. They will need the shiny metal chimneys painted black though (and renumbering).  The re-engineering of the current ones as described by adb968008 and BWs trains is something I'll have to miss, but I do have 2 well running 14xx locos which was my original intention.

Job done.

 

 

14xx.jpg

 

 

A trio of 14xxs, my old  Airfix one at front, 2x Hornby behind.

 

Your points are fair enough but my excellent brand new 48xx cost me GBP 37 ex GST and runs perfectly after a few minor tweaks

 

It was 95+% before that and my efforts were a learning exercise as much as anything. At the risk of offending others, I'd argue my tweaks were an order of magnitude lower than those needed for another 14xx model under DCC operation.

 

EBay UK is not really an option for us Overseas expats; "caveat emptor" if you will.

 

1) I can return a genuinely faulty loco to my favourite UK retailer at zero cost, I suspect not with such confidence to an EBay vendor. Can you see them stumping up AUD 30 return postage, I think not,

2) no ex GST price option on EBay AFAIK

 

The old Hornby (R 2026 or R3117) is a good model but recent offers at the Big "H" pre-owned in "as New" condition sell for near to GBP 60.

 

Will a Hornby re-release appear in 2019? The 2017 batches sold quickly and with a few mods a reissue must surely fix up the problems,

 

Seems as if both our solutions meet our specific needs, win/ win eh?

 

,

[railroadbill]

Absolutely!  I was lucky with mine, which were both just over £30. The new release ones I bought were £34 (they soon went up to £44) though). I'd  looked on and off for second hand 14xx locos but as you say they were usually £60 or so. So getting Railroad ones considerably cheaper than second hand was a good idea at first. As it turned out, I saved a bit of money buying second hand and  both those locos are ok.

Think the finish on the railroad ones is better than the older models.

With the tweaks you've done I think both of my original purchase railroad ones would have run ok, especially moving the pickups off the bottom inside of the wheels where they can catch on pointwork, and filing the bearings to get the loco sitting level. Which would have been an interesting exercise.

However, win-win for both of us as you say!

[peteskitchen]

Now scheduled for re release now in lined BR green livery....with a 20% price hike! I wonder what happened to all those returned/recalled GWR liveried 14xx's from last year?

[BWsTrains]

Now scheduled for re release now in lined BR green livery....with a 20% price hike! I wonder what happened to all those returned/recalled GWR liveried 14xx's from last year?

Scrapped I reckon. Cost to return, rework / repaint the old lot would just not stack up. Pity really and bit of a waste if issues could be fixed up as adb96.. has shown earlier and others of us have followed.

 

I'm still very happy with mine on a value for money / requirements basis (i.e. light load), in fact the 48xx / Autocoach combo has become a favorite of mine. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by BWsTrains