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New Hornby 14xx

14xx




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#151 BWsTrains

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 07:54

Finally had time to investigate the issues with this little beast tonight.

Hi,

 

happy to report that I managed to get one from the "good" batch, tested pre-shipping to Aus by the supplier (now sold out).

Runs like a charm, I added DCC and it creeps along even better than my prized 57xx from B. Points no problem, faintest wheel slip on a more pacy start but no problem as this is perfect for my flat single Autocoach demand.

 

What I would appreciate is any tips regarding access to the axles, I removed the 3 screws but the bottom plate was reluctant to move far except for a few mm at the rear. I'm guessing some lugs are holding it firmly in place





#152 adb968008

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:22

Hi,

happy to report that I managed to get one from the "good" batch, tested pre-shipping to Aus by the supplier (now sold out).
Runs like a charm, I added DCC and it creeps along even better than my prized 57xx from B. Points no problem, faintest wheel slip on a more pacy start but no problem as this is perfect for my flat single Autocoach demand.

What I would appreciate is any tips regarding access to the axles, I removed the 3 screws but the bottom plate was reluctant to move far except for a few mm at the rear. I'm guessing some lugs are holding it firmly in place

The screw is convienently hidden... in the chimney !

When you remove the chassis, also undo the pipes which run from under the body and clip into the chassis (1either side), they just clip in no glue.

Edited by adb968008, 21 January 2018 - 12:23 .


#153 Coppercap

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 13:01

The screw is convienently hidden... in the chimney !
When you remove the chassis, also undo the pipes which run from under the body and clip into the chassis (1either side), they just clip in no glue.


That's to remove the body from the chassis, not the bottom plate to access the axles. I think it's fair to assume the body's already off...

#154 The Johnster

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 14:34

The screw is convienently hidden... in the chimney !

When you remove the chassis, also undo the pipes which run from under the body and clip into the chassis (1either side), they just clip in no glue.

 

This used to be the default method of fixing bodies back in the day, with Hornby Dublo, Triang, and Trix using the method.  Lugs at the rear of the chassis engaged with the body which was fixed with the screw down the chimney.  I have forgotten how it was managed on Triang's 'with smoke' (Seuthe) locos.  One of the first things I did as a 'proper' modeller (someone who had build a Ratio 4 wheeler which ran) (a 'real' modeller was someone who'd painted it in fully lined Dean livery) was to paint the brass screws matt black so that looking down the chimney was more realistic...


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#155 railroadbill

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 18:59

Further to adb968008's excellent analysis of the different 14xx models. I've finally managed to buy a second hand older version Hornby 14xx  (shiny chimney). The rear carrying wheels are lightly sprung with a lot of free up and down movement.  Unlike the latest version type I bought and  returned, the driving wheels on this one have no fore and aft slack so they don't wobble. 

The loco runs very well, so that sprung rear axle does the trick.  (Plus decent pickups).



#156 BWsTrains

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 23:08

The screw is convienently hidden... in the chimney !

When you remove the chassis, also undo the pipes which run from under the body and clip into the chassis (1either side), they just clip in no glue.

Hi,

 

Sorry my question was not totally precise, Coppercap has it spot on that I've negotiated getting the body off, I worked that out from the generic service sheet in order to add the DCC chip.

 

Where I ran into a problem was in lifting the bottom plate away (down) from the motor / chassis assembly so I can access the axles. As noted I've removed the three screws in this plate. Would appreciate help here as I encountered a fair amount of physical resistance and didn't want to snap anything.

 

Colin



#157 BWsTrains

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 23:17

Further to adb968008's excellent analysis of the different 14xx models. I've finally managed to buy a second hand older version Hornby 14xx  (shiny chimney). The rear carrying wheels are lightly sprung with a lot of free up and down movement.  Unlike the latest version type I bought and  returned, the driving wheels on this one have no fore and aft slack so they don't wobble. 

The loco runs very well, so that sprung rear axle does the trick.  (Plus decent pickups).

Clearly some distinct batch differences with this model as mine has no detectable fore / aft movement and as noted runs very smoothly (to my modest specs anyway).

 

My rear axle has very limited vertical travel unlike your older version so I'm wondering if there's a stiff spring, no room for spring? All will be revealed when I get inside to access the axles (see #156). I'll report what differences if any there are from what adb has reported.

Meanwhile, I'm totally happy with the running performance of mine


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#158 railroadbill

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 17:56

A query about 14xx liveries. I think there are people on this thread who may know. I've seen pictures of 1409 in unlined  green with BR late emblem (one of the Hattons ones is like this). This doesn't have top feed. Were there any no-topfeed locos in plain green with early BR emblems?  I can't find any pictures in my books or on internet sites so far.

 

This is because I'm thinking of finishing off my Ks 14xx :o  (in plain green e/e) and my other 2 14xx (Airfix and Hornby) are lined BR L/E.  So roughly same era but bit different would be good. Failing that 1409 in l/e would work of course. Any info or sources I could access please?



#159 BWsTrains

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 21:40

Railroadbill,

 

you might try asking on the " Hattons announce 14xx / 48xx / 58xx" topic which has 50+ followers vs the modest 5 diehards here :sungum:

 



#160 The Johnster

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 13:07

The Hatton's is available in a wider variety of liveries as well; you pays your money and takes your choice!



#161 IamDaniel

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 13:41

I emailed Hornby about this issue and they replied that they are awaiting new, presumably thicker, traction tyres.

 

Did they give any indication on when they may arrive? And will we need to buy them ourselves or email Hornby to ask them to send the new tyres out?



#162 adb968008

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 10:19

Apologies for the delay here’s how to remove the body...

1. Unscrew the chimney screw
DEEB9827-E2E2-4975-84EA-F397395E1744.jpeg
2. Unclip the pipes from the body to the chassis, front and rear, both sides 9E3320FE-42E3-4C8E-AF96-8496B229803C.jpeg
3. Tip out the front of the chassis from under the chimney and slide the chassis away from the footplate. There’s a small lip the chassis rests on, from behind the bufferbeam.302C0022-35A9-475A-B5CD-3ABE074092C6.jpeg

Edited by adb968008, 29 January 2018 - 10:22 .


#163 BWsTrains

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 11:22

Apologies for the delay here’s how to remove the body...

1. Unscrew the chimney screw
attachicon.gifDEEB9827-E2E2-4975-84EA-F397395E1744.jpeg
2. Unclip the pipes from the body to the chassis, front and rear, both sides attachicon.gif9E3320FE-42E3-4C8E-AF96-8496B229803C.jpeg
3. Tip out the front of the chassis from under the chimney and slide the chassis away from the footplate. There’s a small lip the chassis rests on, from behind the bufferbeam.attachicon.gif302C0022-35A9-475A-B5CD-3ABE074092C6.jpeg

Thanks John,

 

I'm already past the stages you list here. What I'm after is explained in a reply to your latest PM,

 

Colin



#164 adb968008

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 12:45

Heres a bit deeper ..

1. Unscrew the 3 bottom face plate screws.
2. Unscrew the screw next to the motor on the chassis (in blue below) and then lift the motor from its retainer, to give the wires some movement latitude (in yellow),I had a bit of mastic holding my wires to the chassis, I just lifted it off, then turned the motor horizontal (red below) and pushed it toward the gears to make the wiring loose (unless you want to just cut the wires and resolder later)
B7CED232-6A0C-49C5-AD1B-9F5CF3A51A21.jpeg
3. At each end the faceplate has two lugs holding the faceplate to the chassis, under the coupling. Remove the couplings, (pull out) then using a small screwdriver nudge the faceplate lug from under the chassis on both sides, repeat at both ends.0035E43B-7B09-41B3-8F24-EB8EB9B1F46E.jpeg
3. Now you can lift the base place away (turn it sideways and it gives you access to the chassis).
8D062E4B-BB24-4F50-A2FE-513EDB61F265.jpeg
Here’s with the X8064 springs from peters spares fitted, of note the little spring under the driving wheel: fitting that one may as may have taken my performance improvement away ! I think i’ll stick with 1 spring on the back wheel only.97F464E2-8985-4FF8-9364-6005E2BC0A76.jpeg

Edited by adb968008, 29 January 2018 - 19:32 .

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#165 railroadbill

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 18:02

to give the wires some movement latitude (in yellow),I has a bit of mastics holding my wife’s to the chassis, [/url]

This thread continues to be very interesting. Excellent model engineering by adb968008, however sticking your wife to the underside of the chassis does sound a bit extreme I'm afraid.
:-)

Edited by railroadbill, 29 January 2018 - 18:03 .

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#166 The Johnster

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 19:29

This thread continues to be very interesting. Excellent model engineering by adb968008, however sticking your wife to the underside of the chassis does sound a bit extreme I'm afraid.
:-)

 

Not in the least; I take it you never met my ex, but the underside of a chassis would have been a good place for her...

 

Bitter, me???


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#167 adb968008

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 19:29

This thread continues to be very interesting. Excellent model engineering by adb968008, however sticking your wife to the underside of the chassis does sound a bit extreme I'm afraid.
:-)

Oops iPhone typing at its best !

I do however recommend to have plenty of “wife” in stock, they come in useful for all kinds of things, but they can come unstuck occasionally too, usually at the very moment you don’t want them too. Sell by dates wildly vary, so if you can handle them, multiple can be useful, failing that have one, and keep substitute brands on the side.

Edited by adb968008, 29 January 2018 - 19:37 .

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#168 BWsTrains

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:45

Took a gnats doo dah off the front axle slot and the little loco is as good as gold.

 

If middle wheels / axle sit 0.25mm too high, simple trig says that a "gnat's doo dah" is in this case 0.5mm as the middle axle is close to the mid point of the triangle. The removal can be via either front or rear axle, whichever is easier or more cosmetically appealing.

 

WRT my own model the gap at the middle axle is ~0.1mm, barely enough to matter except at the odd spot around the layout where I can get wheel slip. Thanks to latest help from adb968008 I will access, file down and add a spring.

 

Colin 


Edited by BWsTrains, 30 January 2018 - 09:46 .


#169 tomparryharry

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:11

I've had a look, but a bit puzzled...

 

This gnats doo-dah. Is it imperial, or metric?

 

Is it European, or from elsewhere?

 

Does the gnat know?

 

gnaturally, it's gnormal to have this sort of gnowledge....














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