Twilight of the 313's at Moorgate

[Edwin_m]

Yeah the 312s were 90 mph whereas the 310s were only 75 mph.

 

In the West Midlands, we were given four new ones of our own but I seem to remember, for some reason, ours were limited to 75 mph.

 

They bought them for a brand new station called Birmingham International, which they decided to gift with with a half hourly local service, rather then the previous hourly one, not long after the Euston service was increased to half hourly as well.

 

Strange to think that not all of the London trains even stopped there, from day one, and the place was dead except for when a show was on.

 

As far as I can remember from the magazines at the time, the four 312s for the LM were geared for 75mph to be the same as the 310s, with which I imagine they interworked and worked in multiple.  In that era they were mostly confined to the WCML slow lines whereas the ECML units needed to use the Fasts. 

[russ p]

Traction interlock with the doors certainty on Heaton based DMUs wasn't activated until about 89/90 guards used to give two on the buzzer and leave the local door open until the train left the platform!

[D854_Tiger]

As far as I can remember from the magazines at the time, the four 312s for the LM were geared for 75mph to be the same as the 310s, with which I imagine they interworked and worked in multiple.  In that era they were mostly confined to the WCML slow lines whereas the ECML units needed to use the Fasts. 

 

Yes, sounds about right, though I never remember them so working, a 312 in multiple was usually with its own kind and nearly always for a show, shuttling back and forward between New St and International.

 

The other regular multiple workings were football specials, round the loop, New Street - New Street via Witton.

 

Incidentally, I believe they rarely (if ever) ventured further south than Bletchley, even then only for maintenance exams, and I also believe the operators on the ground were given very strict instructions that the 312s must not stray off their intended route i.e further south than Coventry.

 

Something to do with WMPTE having financed their purchase.

 

Having said that, I'm pretty sure they did stray.

[ba14eagle]

Apologies for going off topic, but was it 312204 which was dubbed "the canary" after being painted in WMPTE yellow livery in the mid 80's?

[96701]

Getting old sucks

The alternative is not worth considering.

[Southernman46]

Wonder if there'll be a 313 farewell tour like the 303 "Blue Train" farewell up & down the WCML - got up to 86 mph at one point ISTR !!

[Gwiwer]

Wonder if there'll be a 313 farewell tour like the 303 "Blue Train" farewell up & down the WCML - got up to 86 mph at one point ISTR !!

While waiting in Haywards Heath up loop for a late-running portion to attach on Friday night a pair of 313s came flying through on the up main. Never coupled in traffic because they don’t have SDO and some platforms are less than 6-car this surprised me as it was right in the path of the up Brighton fast booked to overtake there. All the lights were on but no-one was home. These units are not permitted in traffic on the main line. This was an e.c.s. move to Selhurst and must have been clocking 80mph. The fast passenger was around 12 late and followed us up instead of overtaking.

[jamie92208]

An interesting thread.   I ride this line out to Old Street when I go to London to meet up with other denizen's of Early Risers.  I took a photo just to record the scene. This is from November 2016.

I did ride the old Paris Metro trains back in 1967 and remember those handles.   Some of the current stock still has them.   Also the old loco hauled Inox corrugated stock that was used until recently on the coastal lines through Nice and Cannes had a similar system and those doors regularly got opened between stations in the summer.   The same system is in use on the Cathage to Tunis Maritime Line and those doors open again after every station stop.

 

Jamie

[96701]

Sorry, somewhat off topic from 313s.

I've walked the tunnels on more than one occasion. We used to look after the electrical installations (low and high voltage including traction supplies). This included the high level lighting which was controlled from the traction supply and the low level battery lights which were controlled by the fire alarm panels at the stations.

 

Here's  Moorgate just off the platform ends with both sets of lights on.

 

A low level twinlight controlled from Old Street.

 

Emergency lights in the handrails at Old Street.

 

 

[anroar53]

Sorry, somewhat off topic from 313s.

I've walked the tunnels on more than one occasion. We used to look after the electrical installations (low and high voltage including traction supplies). This included the high level lighting which was controlled from the traction supply and the low level battery lights which were controlled by the fire alarm panels at the stations.

 

Here's  Moorgate just off the platform ends with both sets of lights on.

Mvc-039s.jpg

 

A low level twinlight controlled from Old Street.

Mvc-037s.jpg

 

Emergency lights in the handrails at Old Street.

Mvc-034s.jpg

 

Brings back more memories. Remember countless occasions of doing the shut down at Moorgate, or 'Plugging Out' as it was often referred to. After the last train left you went to the room at the stops end of 10. You'd then have to wait until the train had arrived at Drayton Park, the longest 8-10 minutes of the whole shift. The Box would ring to confirm the train was 'out', there was a panel at head height looking along the platform. You then inserted two keys, one for the up and one for the down line. Both were given a quarter turn, and a pair of illuminated red lights (two for each line), would go out to indicate the traction current had been discharged. The tunnel lights would come on as the traction live lights went out.

[John M Upton]

While waiting in Haywards Heath up loop for a late-running portion to attach on Friday night a pair of 313s came flying through on the up main. Never coupled in traffic because they don’t have SDO and some platforms are less than 6-car this surprised me as it was right in the path of the up Brighton fast booked to overtake there. All the lights were on but no-one was home. These units are not permitted in traffic on the main line. This was an e.c.s. move to Selhurst and must have been clocking 80mph. The fast passenger was around 12 late and followed us up instead of overtaking.

 

They travel to and from Selhurst for tyre turning fairly regularly which means they get a non stop run up and down the main line empty although usually single units as Brighton's allocation is fully stretched and utilised at least on weekdays.

 

Six car operation does happen on Brighton & Hove Albion match days at Falmer between Brighton and Lewes, not calling at Moulscomb as that is four cars long.  The comment earlier about how coupling two 313's was always a bit of an issue still applies as I have found out on a couple of occasions recently!!

[roythebus]

I was a secondman at KX from December 1975 to July 1978 and had the "pleasure" of not only watching the redevopment of KX but the change over of the NCL. i had a few turns down there on the converted 501 motor coaches to battery electric. The track down the hole only went as far as Old Street, some had been lifted. It was a smelly duty as the battery acid mingled with the 80-odd years of brake dust and grime. We even had an 08 and a 31 down the tunnel on odd occasions. I can't remember who the drivers were and I was not invlved, but I understand one got as far as Highbury before it clipped something in the tunnel roof.

 

For mess room facilities at Drayton Park we had a Mk1 buffet car which provided seating with a table and a source of hot water to make the tea! The rails in the depot wre a very light flat bottom section which I understand were sold to one of the Welsh n/g lines. The false walls at the station hide a treasure trove of period adverts and enamel station name signs, they were just left and bricked over. It's a pity I never took my camera to work with me in those days. Sometimes working in the tunnel the light would flicker and the drivers used to say it was the Moorgate ghost...

 

The battery locos were limited to 25, but taking a pair empty from Hertford to Hornsey one afternoon we got up to a decent 60, following hard on the heels of the stopper in front! The motors would take parallel and would keep going as long as the battery lasted.

 

As for the 313s, some of the drivers looked forward to driving them for the novelty value, but they were as others have said troublesome, with pan refusing to raise or lower at Drayton Park amongst some of the faults. Working a Cambridge semi-fast out of KX one evening with a 31 and 8 on, we were Finsbury Park then first stop Welwyn. A 313 appeared next to us at FP, done all stations and beat us to Potters Bar! they were quite fast on the pulling away and had better brakes than a vacuum set.

 

I've been on a few on the Coastway in the last couple of years, and you have to be a bit of an anorak to endure one from Pompey to Brighton! They still give a smooth firm ride, but the seats for that distance and no toilets either...

 

My son is assistant fleet engineer for the GVT in charge of the former BR "heritage" fleet, including the Hornsey based 313s for his sins. I would never have dreamt all those years ago that I would have had a drive of them new and my son, as then not born, would be the man in charge of them 39 years later! Most of the original 313 drivers from those days have now retired, "Deltic Dave" Neville, "Budgie" (RIP), Roger Spouse, "Nashy" and the rest.

[jamie92208]

 

 

For mess room facilities at Drayton Park we had a Mk1 buffet car which provided seating with a table and a source of hot water to make the tea! The rails in the depot wre a very light flat bottom section which I understand were sold to one of the Welsh n/g lines. 

 

I think that they went to the Festiniog which was getting the upper section above the tunnel fettled at that that time, after being out of use for many years.  I did my Mountain Leadership Certificate up there in 1978 and on the way to the pub from somewhere high up in the hills one night we walked across the line near Blaneau and I remember seeing the FB rail. 

 

Jamie

[anroar53]

For mess room facilities at Drayton Park we had a Mk1 buffet car which provided seating with a table and a source of hot water to make the tea! The rails in the depot wre a very light flat bottom section which I understand were sold to one of the Welsh n/g lines. The false walls at the station hide a treasure trove of period adverts and enamel station name signs, they were just left and bricked over. It's a pity I never took my camera to work with me in those days. Sometimes working in the tunnel the light would flicker and the drivers used to say it was the Moorgate ghost...

 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/23700069@N03/15766384579/in/faves-8888017@N08/

Solves the mystery of the catering vehicle in this picture

[Pete the Elaner]

The first I remember of the 313s was when 4 were transferred to Clacton for services to Colchester & Walton. They replaced 308s, but only for a year or so before I think the 308s were re-introduced. Does anyone know why they stayed there a short time?

Several years later, 4 more 313s ran the service & stayed a little longer than the first 4, being replaced by 312s then 321s.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Very interesting thread.

 

I was lucky enough to lead a group visit to the line just before reopening including a walk through the tunnel from Drayton Park to Highbury & Islington. I still have photos (slides) somewhere. We did quite a lot of the walk alongside the main line (hi vis provided) which I am sure would not be allowed these days.

 

Like Gwiwer, I then became a student in that part of London, living for a while in Hornsey. So the 313s became quite familiar and that service very useful as some my fellow students held parties in their flat next to Enfield Chase station.

 

I can also recall visiting the line with my dad just before closure of the Drayton Park - Finsbury Park section (1965?) for replacement by the Victoria Line.

[roythebus]

It must have been 1965 when the DP-FP section closed. I used to bunk off school and go riding around on the Underground. Mellows Hire provided some Bedford SB coaches for the replacement service and I remember seeing the junction works at FP when the Victoria Line was being built, with Picc trains running in enlarged tunnels on bits of wood so it seemed. And the standard Stock on the NCL.

[keefer]

A few pages about the Northern City line, starting at Moorgate:

http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/Moorgate_station2.html

Edited November 13, 2017 by keefer

[Edwin_m]

In fact only one tunnel of the GN&C at Finsbury Park became Victoria Line, the other one went to the Piccadilly with each getting one new platform, so as to provide cross-platform interchange.  Similarly the Victoria took over one of the GN&C platforms at Highbury & Islington, which must have involved making a short section of new tunnel to main line dimensions. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Edwin_m

[Gwiwer]

With this topic very much in mind and finding myself in the wilds of Crews Hill earlier today (OK - I was there for the W10 bus which, as one of the least-frequent in the TfL network, required my attention) I then took the train into Moorgate.

 

The unit was exactly as others have described.  A shabby and woebegone carrier of First vinyls and a Thameslink brand sticker outside, faded and slightly grubby seats inside.  But it still ran as they almost always have done in terms of being respectably smooth and quiet.  Student days were recalled along the way; at Palmer's Green (home to the young lady of the time), passing Bounds Green depot (GC 180, Anglia 90005 and depot gronk 08441 present but anything else was tucked up warmly inside) and the myriad of sidings and sheds thence to Harringay.  No more is IC charter stock berthed at Ferme Park but it was novel to sight class 700 "White Motor" Thameslink units sharing Hornsey depot with classes 313, 365 and 387.  And of course there is no longer a blue haze over Finsbury Park created by idling Deltics which was the case when the 313s first appeared.

 

Then down the ramp to Drayton Park where the lights flicked and the motor note changed as the pan and shoes were lowered for the AC/DC changeover.  Trees now occupy the site of the one-time tube depot.  A short ride later and we were at Highbury & Islington where most of the small number of passengers alighted for transfer to the adjacent Victoria Line.  The GN platforms here and at the other stations to Moorgate are pure timewarp Network SouthEast.  Quite well kept though.  Essex Road was, as it usually is, devoid of passengers altogether, one alighted at Old Street and the remaining four of us arrived in Moorgate's fateful platform 9.  Despite having been a daily user for a time I still cannot use that platform without a shiver and the memory of what I was so very nearly involved in.  I left with a thought to all those who were less lucky, either fatally or scarred for life one way or another.

 

The 700s presage another game-change as along with the nomadic 387s (ex-Southern, and moving on to who knows where) they will oust the current order in the next few months.  The days of the 313 are numbered but their replacement is yet to appear from the production lines.  It was a trip full of memories though not all were good ones.  I shall be back before the 313s finally leave and to make use of the new Thameslink connections through the former "Railway Lands" allowing trains to run between Brighton and Cambridge very soon now.

[Gwiwer]

In fact only one tunnel of the GN&C at Finsbury Park became Victoria Line, the other one went to the Piccadilly with each getting one new platform, so as to provide cross-platform interchange.  Similarly the Victoria took over one of the GN&C platforms at Highbury & Islington, which must have involved making a short section of new tunnel to main line dimensions. 

Correct.  

 

It wasn't a straight swap.  New links were bored to permit cross-platform interchange.  The southbound Victoria Line runs into old tunnel north of Finsbury Park easily spotted by its cast rather than concrete lining segments.

[McGomez]

(313011 being a particularly late arrival IIRC)

 

 

You do remember correctly Gwiwer.

It was the last to be underlined in my book.

The rumour mill of the day had it that it was cannibalised at Hornsey to keep the others running although I still find that hard to believe.

Was it used for testing purposes elsewhere, I wonder?

[jim.snowdon]

It's entirely possible. At around the same time, there was one unit of 1973 tube stock delivered that became a donor for virtually everything and as a result never carried a fare paying passenger in its life. Part of it ended up in the LU track recording train, and its driving motor coach eventually ended up replacing one that got badly fire damaged in an electrical fire at Wood Green.

 

Those were the days when it hadn't occurred to procurement to specify that the spare parts should be delivered before the first rolling stock deliveries.

 

Jim

[Gwiwer]

You do remember correctly Gwiwer.

It was the last to be underlined in my book.

The rumour mill of the day had it that it was cannibalised at Hornsey to keep the others running although I still find that hard to believe.

Was it used for testing purposes elsewhere, I wonder?

 

I can certainly believe it was used as what we now term a "Christmas Tree" since at the time of their introduction there was no ready source of spares, the design and technology were fundamentally new and old hands (many of them with no previous electric traction experience) would perhaps have taken the path of least resistance to keep things moving when the fleet was under pressure.  Which in the early years it definitely was with 2-3 minute peak headways and every train into Moorgate in the morning peak, and out in the evening, packed to the gunwhales.  It's not like that any more.

[Southernman46]

Most fleets have one ................... the DLR's is currently vehicle 39 which is basically now a bodyshell on jacks in Beckton depot - got into "trouble" recently for actually referring to it as "a Christmas tree" in a failure report - apparently the preferred term is "Donor vehicle"

 

I explained my error was due to being an ex-BR trained Dinosaur ............

 

In many ways, a 313 ought to end up in the NRM collection as they are the 1st of many of that EMU design especially as no PEP vehicles survived

Edited November 14, 2017 by Southernman46