Twilight of the 313's at Moorgate

[96701]

Trees now occupy the site of the one-time tube depot.  

Trees occupied the area when I went out of the substation to explore the former depot. Fortunately I was warned about avoiding the wheeldrop pit which is still there and totally unmarked and hidden in the vegetation. 

[russ p]

 

My son is assistant fleet engineer for the GVT in charge of the former BR "heritage" fleet, including the Hornsey based 313s for his sins. I would never have dreamt all those years ago that I would have had a drive of them new and my son, as then not born, would be the man in charge of them 39 years later! Most of the original 313 drivers from those days have now retired, "Deltic Dave" Neville, "Budgie" (RIP), Roger Spouse, "Nashy" and the rest.

If you are on about Deltic Dave Thompson? I still speak to him on a regular basis and go out of a pint now and again

[stewartingram]

I'm not sure about those 387s moving on - but would like to know?

As I understand it the outer suburban fleet of GN is as follows:

 

317 & 321 - now departed for pastures new.

 

365 - the full class still active (apart from the Potters Bar victim). On the verge of being replaced, originally 1/2 the fleet weer going to GWR, but apparently this is now cancelled. The remainder were to remain with GN. Note that half of them came from Connex.

 

387 - recently transferred from the Thameslink route, these have taken over the majority of Cambridge/Kings Lynn services from 365, though odd 365 workings still remain beyond Cambridge to Ely at least. Note that the one route is actually 2 services, Cambridge (where trains divide), and then on to Kings Lynn. Some trains continue to Ely to reverse. There are problem running more than a single 4-car set beyond Ely (track capacity, some short platforms, OHL power problems, all of which are hinted at for the future). 387s do work some Peterborough services, but these are mainly 365.

 

700 - these now have replaced everything on the Thameslink (Bedford) route, and have just started on the Peterborough line. More to start in the coming weeks. Also they are to start on the Cambridge route soon, though at the present time because of the restrictions cannot replace trains to Kings Lynn.

 

So presumably the 700s will oust the 365s? That leaves the 387 on the Lynn route - don't forget the dividing of trains at Cambridge. Are the 365s going (as they are the oldest?). Add the upcoming timetable changes for when through services from GN go through on Thameslink and it gets complicated!

 

Stewart

[Gwiwer]

It should get simpler!

 

700s start on Peterborough and Cambridge turns which transfer to Thameslink as soon as the core opens fully.

387s work the remaining turns, basically the “Kings” (Cross to Lynn) as everything else will switch.

 

317s and 321s are gone. 365s are expected to go for storage at Ely. There is not enough work left for the entire 387 fleet meaning some at least may well move on. I doubt GWR would need them; they already have some in storage themselves unless or until the balance of electric services between London and Reading is sorted out between them and Crossrail. They could go back to Southern but their 110mph top speed is better used elsewhere. Southern’s biggest problem is capacity on the coast and as followers of this thread will know they are getting not some nice fast 387s but more tired and aged 313s when they finish on the GN routes.

 

Class 700/0 can, I understand, also be used for Kings Cross (any platform) to Cambridge and will be able to go to Kings Lynn when the power supply is reinforced. North of Cambridge is not within Thameslink territory however so expect no big changes there. 700/1 units may only use platforms 1-8 (not 0) at the Cross due to their 12-car length.

 

As part of this shuffle more platform space will be released at Kings Cross (9-11) offering scope to return some of the stoppers to their erstwhile home though at the cost of Moorgate losing them. My experience suggests a return to Kings Cross would be popular with off-peak users not bound for desks in the Square Mile.

[anroar53]

With this topic very much in mind and finding myself in the wilds of Crews Hill earlier today (OK - I was there for the W10 bus which, as one of the least-frequent in the TfL network, required my attention) I then took the train into Moorgate.

 

 

 

The GN platforms here and at the other stations to Moorgate are pure timewarp Network SouthEast.  Quite well kept though.  Essex Road was, as it usually is, devoid of passengers altogether, one alighted at Old Street and the remaining four of us arrived in Moorgate's fateful platform 9.  Despite having been a daily user for a time I still cannot use that platform without a shiver and the memory of what I was so very nearly involved in.  I left with a thought to all those who were less lucky, either fatally or scarred for life one way or another.

 

 

Moorgate was always a lonely place to work, especially after the end of the evening peak hour from 1900 when the other staff had gone home. My time there was pre-NSE and the orange and black colour scheme just added to the gloom. You used to operate out of a 'broom cupboard' office in one of the cross passages between 9 & 10. you had to contend with the constant racket of the 'Down' Escalator to the Northern Line City branch. Other than that it was increasingly rare to see a passenger in the evenings, and the only human contact was a brief exchange with the train crews as they changed ends. The signalling was usually in 'Auto' mode, whereby approaching trains set the route into the platforms. No. 9 was the prime platform, and a train would only be routed into 10 if 9 was occupied. This normally meant outside peak hours all traffic ran in and out of 9. To despatch the train you would push the 'Train Ready to Start' plunger on the wall outside the office. You would hear the points go over with an echoing 'ker-chunk', and the signal would clear.

 

Just after midnight, and before the last train arrived, you would do a last walk round the platforms to make sure everything was okay. You would then close off and lock all the lattice gates except the one at the exit to no. 9. Once the train had arrived you would stop the Northern Line escalator. I would normally wait by the gate at no.9 until the last train had pulled out and then pulled the gate over. It was then you had the shut down routine to go through which I mentioned in an earlier post. It was at this time that the platforms were totally still and silent without the noise of the escalator running. You would turn off the Office equipment and then go to the Staff Room at the Buffer stops end of platform 10. From here you would have to wait for the last train to reach Drayton Park, before switching off the traction current. It was here that, if you believe in ghosts, you would briefly see a reflection in the mirror of someone standing in the doorway, but on turning round there was no-one there. Being a bit sceptical I always put it down to a tale told to try and 'frighten the new guys'. I never encountered any 'spooks' while I was there, but the platforms were very eerie in that last twenty minutes or so. It was always nice to finally lock no.9 gate and nip upstairs before the LT staff shut the main entrance.

 

It didn't surprise me when I heard that the Northern City Line had lost it's late evening service a few years after I left, but was surprised when the service resumed again sometime later.

 

Andy,

Ghost of stations past.  

Edited December 6, 2017 by anroar53

[roythebus]

If you are on about Deltic Dave Thompson? I still speak to him on a regular basis and go out of a pint now and again

 

No, Deltic Dave Neville. He's still around on the FB 34A group.

[russ p]

Ahh sorry did you know Dave Thompson?

[phil_sutters]

This is how they announced their arrival on Coastway Services in 2010.

[Gwiwer]

Spin.

 

"To help provide room on our busier services ....." three-car units will replace four-car units.  Unless, of course, they meant the 313s were going to allow longer trains to London.  A bit hard when many peak-time trains were already at the maximum 12-car length.

 

The 3-car 377/3 units which had been used on some (not all) coastal services could have been paired and used to meaningfully increase capacity on the London - Coastway splitters where a 12-car train would have divided at Haywards Heath with 6 going east and 6 west.  Instead we had then and still have today overcrowding as pairs of four-car units are used with only 4 to each coast.  Quite simply that isn't enough much of the time. When 12-car trains are provided the split is 8/4 meaning one side (usually Littlehampton) still gets a rough deal.

 

I know it's Railway Politics which determines a lot of this shuffling around.  I know it was undesirable to have the 313s in suburbia where they rightfully belonged if only because they would have been a small and incompatible type mixing with larger fleets and needing dedicated diagrams.  

 

To say they have been unloved along the Sussex coast these past seven years would at best be a polite understatement.

[Titan]

I have never had a need to visit these Moorgate station platforms, but I made a point once to visit the scene of the dreadful crash to pay my respects. The dead end tunnel is quite short, about  a coach length from the platform to the wall, so you can clearly see the end of the tunnel from the platform. It was chilling to recollect that after the crash the train came to a halt with the third coach half way in... 

[John M Upton]

The unit and coach data panels on the 313/2's still give the original seating capacity from when they were 3 and 2 seated rather than the 2 and 2 seating they now have.  This is probably because they got their respray before the interiors were done and no one bothered to correct the details.

[eastwestdivide]

The only time I've been down the Moorgate branch in recent years was out of curiosity when a journey planner from S Yorks to S London offered me an interesting routing, which still appears to be in the system today with the right choice of stations. The middle of the day service was fairly well filled when I did it:

 

Doncaster-Stevenage-Finsbury Park-Highbury & Islington-Dalston Junction-Peckham Rye for 2h30.

 

Other trains give the more straightforward Doncaster-KX-underground-London Bridge-Peckham Rye for 2h34 or 2h38, or sometimes 2h55ish

[Gwiwer]

Shows the often overlooked benefits of the TfL Overground if nothing else. It can be surprisingly quick crossing London.

[phil_sutters]

The unit and coach data panels on the 313/2's still give the original seating capacity from when they were 3 and 2 seated rather than the 2 and 2 seating they now have.  This is probably because they got their respray before the interiors were done and no one bothered to correct the details.

At least one arrived with its pantograph still in-situ, although in Southern colours. If you look at the poster above that one has OLE above it.

[John M Upton]

When the 313's were first transferred south they were needed in a hurry so initially just got the coat of paint. One was used still in Silverlink purple for crew training only.

 

Subsequently they then went away again which was when the interior was refreshed, Coastway branding applied and the pantographs removed.

[Southernman46]

I have never had a need to visit these Moorgate station platforms, but I made a point once to visit the scene of the dreadful crash to pay my respects. The dead end tunnel is quite short, about  a coach length from the platform to the wall, so you can clearly see the end of the tunnel from the platform. It was chilling to recollect that after the crash the train came to a halt with the third coach half way in... 

The official report is available on-line and well worth a read if you have a spare hour .....................

[5944]

365 - the full class still active (apart from the Potters Bar victim). On the verge of being replaced, originally 1/2 the fleet weer going to GWR, but apparently this is now cancelled. The remainder were to remain with GN. Note that half of them came from Connex.

First units have now been taken out of service, now that the 700s have started on the GN. 365505, 517 and 519 are at Hornsey at the moment. The plan a couple of weeks ago was 6 units (i.e. 2 x 12 cars) to be stored. A 12 car hot spare would be kept in case a 700 failed, and the other three units would be going through dilapidation repairs (replacing damaged seat cushions, misted windows, wall moquette panels, that sort of thing), but that's probably all changed by now! Even at Hornsey we don't know where the 365s will be heading once they've finished on the GN. We don't even know if we're keeping any! And this thread was the first I'd heard of the 313s heading to the coast.

[John M Upton]

We have been told four heading south, two for service (presumably compensation from the DfT for taking away a couple of our 377's and giving them to South Eastern) plus two as parts donors.  More to follow has not been ruled out I reckon.

[Gwiwer]

They really know how to win votes! Luckily for DafT most of the Coastway seats are not exactly marginal.

[John M Upton]

If it's got a blue rosette on it, they vote for it!!

 

Actually I like the 313's, it keeps me with a full Guards dispatching licence in my pocket along with safety critical PTS which I would have lost were they not here whereupon I would have been converted to an OBS.

Edited November 14, 2017 by John M Upton

[Nimbus]

It intrigues me that the GN 313s are now older than the GN Quad-Arts were at withdrawal. And also their relative quaintness.

Both suffered cosmetic neglect in their twilight years.

 

The Nim.

[Southof1E top tmd]

313s rescue Silverlink Sep 2003!

 

When Bletchley TMD had to ground all their 321 fleet due suspected brake faults it was class 313s to the rescue from Sep 11-13th 2003. Various 313s were borrowed from  Euston - Watford DC duties, spare Silverlink ones drafted in and even GN 313060/064 drafted in on M.Keynes - Eustons. It was unusual to ride them at speed, as mentioned good riding units. They will be much missed from Moorgate and Kings X peak turns as they are still personally much missed on the "DC" and NLL

 

NR

 

www.leightonlogs.org

[John M Upton]

Apparently 313201 currently in Wolverton Works has had a respray....

 

It's not green and white anymore..

[RANGERS]

Apparently 313201 currently in Wolverton Works has had a respray....

 

It's not green and white anymore..

 

Would be apt to see one or two of them back in blue/ grey before the finally depart the GN

[roythebus]

When new the 313s gave a very firm but comfortable ride. I've been on a couple in recent years on the Pompey-Brightons and the ride was just as good then. the main grumbles, the seats aren't really suitable for longer distances, and of course no toilets!

 

Somewhere around I've got some of the original timetable leaflets.