Stanier 8f

[MatthewCarty]

I am considering pre-ordering R3564, and I was wondering if anyone would be able to fill me in on the history of this model? I know Hornby haven't produced it recently, but I mainly wanted to know if all the tooling dates from the super detail time or if some of the tooling dates back further (like the 4f and 2p)? Also, if anyone has one of the later ones from about 2010/11, what they thought of the model, positives and negatives?

 

Many thanks in advance.

Edited November 13, 2017 by MatthewCarty

[bike2steam]

Well 8 of my 9 8F's run on Hornby chassis, all are excellent runners/haulers which include a selection from the first 'Super-detail', made in China batch. The 9th runs on a Bachmann WD chassis as 48169. Are you talking about 48045 which the promotional pics show it with 10 inch numerals, as it was turned out from Darlington in April 1965 for the last days of it's life?

[MikeParkin65]

I've got 48406 from about 2010 and its a fine loco. Smooth running and reasonably powerful. Some say the 8f is ready for a new version but it looks pretty much like an 8f to me. Can be bought for very reasonable prices (£60 to £80) on ebay if you're so inclined and of course there are few easier loco's to renumber or repaint than unlined all black ones! 

[adb968008]

I’ve got 8510, 7476, 48773, 48151, 48154 and 45160 all Hornby rtr 8f’s no complaints on any of them.

Also a spare chassis waiting to become a Z.

Edited November 13, 2017 by adb968008

[adb968008]

The pictures of 48045 shows a front end of an 8f, but the back end of a railroad 4f tender...

But..

the tender has coal Rails, and see through ones at that, which have only previous been seen on the compound/patriot railroad chassis.

 

Right now it looks a hybrid of 3 toolings but that’s a mock up.

We may be surprised with an all new Fowler tender, but that would be odd, as everything else that ran with a Fowler has pretty much been done already by Bachmann.

 

Now just to confuse things further.. 48045 was a Darlington overhaul, and so was famed by its large letters, and AWS box and tanks on its running plate... we haven’t seen the other side of this model yet, but it could turn out to be exceptionally good... or a very expensive muddle/mashup of a model..

https://www.flickr.com/photos/the-evanses/5006412582

Edited November 13, 2017 by adb968008

[Stevelewis]

I notice  the  spec  states  5 pole  skew wound  motor,  no  mention   of  a  flywheel  though,  so  presumably  it  wont  have  one?.......  Or 2  like  the  J15!

[peterfgf]

I am considering pre-ordering R3564, and I was wondering if anyone would be able to fill me in on the history of this model? I know Hornby haven't produced it recently, but I mainly wanted to know if all the tooling dates from the super detail time or if some of the tooling dates back further (like the 4f and 2p)? Also, if anyone has one of the later ones from about 2010/11, what they thought of the model, positives and negatives?

 

Many thanks in advance.

I have three Hornby 8Fs, including one of the older models, R322, 48758.  This is tender drive but I thought it good enough to put a decoder in the tender.  I'm still pleased with it.

The other two are R2229, 48154, and E2393, 48773.  I think these are great models and I have every expectation that the new releases will be at least equal, and probably will be better, in quality.  A pre-order would have already gone in, but I'm hesitating over the Fowler tender for the BR livery version.  I much prefer the Stanier tender.

Peterfgf

[Gilbert]

 "A pre-order would have already gone in, but I'm hesitating over the Fowler tender for the BR livery version.  I much prefer the Stanier tender."

 

I have to agree with that...

Chris

Edited November 14, 2017 by Gilbert

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I notice  the  spec  states  5 pole  skew wound  motor,  no  mention   of  a  flywheel  though,  so  presumably  it  wont  have  one?...

 Easily modified if it is still provided with a rear shaft on the motor, as on all the earlier versions I have seen. The rear motor bracket needs the reinforcing ribs cut back flush to permit a 2mm shaft diameter flywheel to be installed. Dependent on the diameter and length dimensions of the chosen flywheel a little space may need to be cut in the body interior. I put in an 18mm dia. 5mm long brass flywheel in this way on a friend's 8F (resolute DC operator) probably a dozen years ago, no trouble at all doing it, or in subsequent operation.

 

I am considering pre-ordering R3564, and I was wondering if anyone would be able to fill me in on the history of this model? I know Hornby haven't produced it recently, but I mainly wanted to know if all the tooling dates from the super detail time or if some of the tooling dates back further (like the 4f and 2p)? Also, if anyone has one of the later ones from about 2010/11, what they thought of the model, positives and negatives?...

 The 8F is one of Hornby's 'curate's eggs'. Take the good as read, here's the other stuff. It will likely be more accurate as a model with the Fowler pattern tender (I don't own such a thing from Hornby so haven't looked closely at one) by elimination of Hornby's inaccurate Stanier tender with its spurious valance and compressed spring and axlebox detail! There's been plenty of fuss on more recent model releases about mechanism intrusion into what should be underboiler airspace: the 8F is one of the worst examples but this is rarely mentioned. Not only is there a socking lump of the mechanism on view, it has a spinning gear shaft end drawing attention to itself! I think it is the only eight coupled OO model that has this affliction, all the others now on sale boast more recent tooling with the mechanism neatly concealed in the firebox. Also has the totally unnnecessary and unreliable two pivot pony truck.

 

What this means is that a redesigned mechanism on the layout of those in the other eight coupled types with fully concealed drives, and the tender underframe from the new Duchess,  would go a long way to bring this item up to standard.

[MatthewCarty]

Thanks for the replies. I think I'll wait and see what the Fowler tender is like before I make a decision to buy it. I started modelling after the last one of these was brought out, and so I was hoping it might be like the BR 4mt (a super model, but not been produced recently). As I now understand it is from a bit further back in Hornby's history, I might wait until there is a bit more information about it, as whilst it sounds like it could do with a newer super detail version, I can see it is probably a very long way away!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Unfortunately, in Hornby's current position this model is unlikely to get any upgrade. Hornby needs all the cash cows it can milk, and I'd expect this is one of them.

[bike2steam]

I’ve got 8510, 7476, 48773, 48151, 48154 and 45160 all Hornby rtr 8f’s no complaints on any of them.

 

Hornby turned out a Turkish one as well, I missed that ??

[Poor Old Bruce]

The pictures of 48045 shows a front end of an 8f, but the back end of a railroad 4f tender...

But..

the tender has coal Rails, and see through ones at that, which have only previous been seen on the compound/patriot railroad chassis.

 

Right now it looks a hybrid of 3 toolings but that’s a mock up.

We may be surprised with an all new Fowler tender, but that would be odd, as everything else that ran with a Fowler has pretty much been done already by Bachmann.

 

Now just to confuse things further.. 48045 was a Darlington overhaul, and so was famed by its large letters, and AWS box and tanks on its running plate... we haven’t seen the other side of this model yet, but it could turn out to be exceptionally good... or a very expensive muddle/mashup of a model..

https://www.flickr.com/photos/the-evanses/5006412582

 

At least the Railroad 4F (and 2P) tender is something like the right scale size and is streets ahead of the awful caricatures inflicted on the Patriots and Compounds.

[adb968008]

Hornby turned out a Turkish one as well, I missed that ??

Yes they did, for Proses in Turkey, a run of 200. It certainly wasn’t cheap (at the time) and was sold across Europe so there’s not many about.

 

I have one, and some how through the mists of time I acquired a spare R3083 TCDD tender too., which I’ve no idea what to do with.

 

R3083 was the catalog number

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qMYuzx6-NgE/maxresdefault.jpg

 

Video here (not mine).

 

https://youtu.be/QqAfUSPyBCg

Edited November 14, 2017 by adb968008

[bike2steam]

Yes they did, for Proses in Turkey, a run of 200. It certainly wasn’t cheap (at the time) and was sold across Europe so there’s not many about.

 

I have one, and some how through the mists of time I acquired a spare R3083 TCDD tender too., which I’ve no idea what to do with.

 

R3083 was the catalog number

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qMYuzx6-NgE/maxresdefault.jpg

 

Video here (not mine).

 

It'd be nice to have one of those, I worked on the first one to come back to this country for preservation - it had an example of every known screw thread known to man.

[Flying Pig]

At least the Railroad 4F (and 2P) tender is something like the right scale size and is streets ahead of the awful caricatures inflicted on the Patriots and Compounds.

Apart from the lack of motor and some separate handrails, the Railroad Fowler tender is the same model that first appeared behind the Airfix 4F of 1978. As far as I recall, it matched the Roche drawing pretty well at the time and the axleboxes and springs are nicely moulded. Other aspects could be improved: the steps are moulded solid with the frames and the prong-like fire iron supports are a bit strange.

 

I see from the photo linked by adb968008 that the prototype tender was the beaded and flush riveted variant with tank vents in the coal space, so is an appropriate choice by Hornby, as the Airfix/Railroad model has AFAIK only ever appeared in this form.

[Steamport Southport]

Didn't the Compound have a Deeley tender?

 

 

 

Jason

[Poor Old Bruce]

Didn't the Compound have a Deeley tender?

 

Hornby's interpretation of it.

[adb968008]

At least the Railroad 4F (and 2P) tender is something like the right scale size and is streets ahead of the awful caricatures inflicted on the Patriots and Compounds.

True, but for the price of this 8f, you could buy an rtr Bachmann S&D 7f, or 4f take it’s tender, and a Hornby 8f, join them together and off you go..no paint needed.

 

sell off the front of the 4f/ 7f, and the spare 8f tender, the job would cost you less than half of this offering, and you’d have a much better detailed tender, though I suspect the 4f loco chassis and the Stanier tender could have all number of other uses :-)

 

I’ve got an alternate cunning 8f plan at the moment, and sucked up a 34006 Bude 1948 trials Stanier tender..watch this space.

Edited November 16, 2017 by adb968008

[peteskitchen]

 Easily modified if it is still provided with a rear shaft on the motor, as on all the earlier versions I have seen. The rear motor bracket needs the reinforcing ribs cut back flush to permit a 2mm shaft diameter flywheel to be installed. Dependent on the diameter and length dimensions of the chosen flywheel a little space may need to be cut in the body interior. I put in an 18mm dia. 5mm long brass flywheel in this way on a friend's 8F (resolute DC operator) probably a dozen years ago, no trouble at all doing it, or in subsequent operation.

 

 

 Did it make much noticeable difference? I only have one super detail 8F but it is one of my smoothest running locos, possibly due to its low gearing.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 Did it  (fitting a flywheel) make much noticeable difference? I only have one super detail 8F but it is one of my smoothest running locos, possibly due to its low gearing.

 Not a dramatic difference, but the owner 'likes flywheels', runs his layout on DC using the old H&M variac units.

 

I was forever fitting flywheels when I ran DC, but gave it up - and removed them - once I went DCC, as the electronic simulation of inertia is vastly more effective. I even take flywheels off RTR if the loco is short of weight for traction, better to use the space that frees up by solidly packing it with lead...

[adb968008]

Looks like Hornby have done their research on this 8f...

 

Today I’ve seen the other side of it.. complete with aws battery box and tanks.

 

The tender has added handrails, coal rails as well as the above.

 

It’s not just sticking an 8f with an airfix tender, they’ve rendered this 8f very well and It was a class member which was a little different.

Edited November 25, 2017 by adb968008

[Leander]

The  cab side sheet has been modified accordingly (9" wide panel to which the doors were attached). This was needed because of the discrepancy in width of the 3500 gallon Fowler tender.

[Dunsignalling]

True, but for the price of this 8f, you could buy an rtr Bachmann S&D 7f, or 4f take it’s tender, and a Hornby 8f, join them together and off you go..no paint needed.

 

sell off the front of the 4f/ 7f, and the spare 8f tender, the job would cost you less than half of this offering, and you’d have a much better detailed tender, though I suspect the 4f loco chassis and the Stanier tender could have all number of other uses :-)

 

I’ve got an alternate cunning 8f plan at the moment, and sucked up a 34006 Bude 1948 trials Stanier tender..watch this space.

Bude will look silly with a Fowler tender IMHO.

[adb968008]

Bude will look silly with a Fowler tender IMHO.

Depends on whether I put it in front of the smokebox or behind the cab.. :-) Garratesque Bulleid ?

 

Nah... I recently came into possession of a 1949 picture of a 48169, with BRITISH RAILWAYS Stanier tender. But to model this 8f, in addition to 8f front, I will need WD 2-8-0 wheels.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96451-8f-with-wd-wheels/

It’s been done before on this site, but I’ve been trying find out where the wheels came from (they aren’t actually WD but they look like it), one theory is they may have come from Vulcan Foundry to Crewe by mistake, using pattern for an overseas loco (India) which also had 4’8 1/2” wheels, the VF works picture of it looks like similar wheels, which i’m Researching more, it may be nothing and i’m Probably wrong but it’s an interesting thing to try and research.

One things for sure nothing else at Crewe had them, and making a one off pattern for one off wheels, not logged as any experiment is odd, but make do and mend in a war is not unusual, neither is sourcing parts from other manufacturers for shipping and assembly at the works, in wartime.

48169 was built in April 1943, VF had a cancellation of 8f orders also in early 1943, so it’s not beyond possibility some components were prior made and transferred to Crewe, I saw a picture of something from VF which look very similar to 48169’s in their works picture, but it’s theory and I could most likely be wrong, i’m looking when bored.

Edited November 25, 2017 by adb968008