DJM stand at Warley

[johnlambert]

I'm glad I got the chance to stop and say hello (and to purchase a couple of Mermaids, I was worried they'd have sold out by Sunday).

[DJM Dave]

I'm glad I got the chance to stop and say hello (and to purchase a couple of Mermaids, I was worried they'd have sold out by Sunday).

Good to meet you John,

 

Luckily there wasn't a mad demand for the dutch mermaid and we sold a total of 24 all weekend.

 

cheers

Dave

[reevesthecat]

I’m also excited about the proposed class 81’s-85’s mooted as well. Although I only saw the 370’s in anger as a 14 coach once i spent misspent youth at Tring copping 81-87’s and such like and the video posted on the APT thread of th APT leaning into the curves looked fantastic but i was anamoured with the banger blue electrics. Boy what a diverse, interesting and overall more fun railway system we had back then.

Cheers

Dave

 

Dave what's that about the proposed class 81-85?

N Gauge or OO?

Mark

[DJM Dave]

Dave what's that about the proposed class 81-85?

N Gauge or OO?

Mark

Hi mate,

 

Durham Trains of Stanley have said if the APT is a success, then they will go ahead with plans to produce the 81-84 in OO gauge and 81-85 in N gauge over a period of time in what is being called their ‘west coast range’.

This press release went out to the mags last Thursday by the way.

 

The range will also include EMU’s ....classes 303, 304 and 312 at present.

 

However, this is all a proposal, but they do have the best intentions, so we will have to see how the APT project gets along

Cheers

Dave

[Thebigshot]

Hi mate,

Durham Trains of Stanley have said if the APT is a success, then they will go ahead with plans to produce the 81-84 in OO gauge and 81-85 in N gauge over a period of time in what is being called their ‘west coast range’.

This press release went out to the mags last Thursday by the way.

The range will also include EMU’s ....classes 303, 304 and 312 at present.

However, this is all a proposal, but they do have the best intentions, so we will have to see how the APT project gets along

Cheers

Dave

Hi Dave

 

Firstly my appoligy for being down beat hear but I think this maybe a difficult project to do and mite fall short due to the cost but I hope I'm wrong and if I win the lottery I'll call you but don't hold your breath

 

Thanks

Alan

[adb968008]

Hi mate,

Durham Trains of Stanley have said if the APT is a success, then they will go ahead with plans to produce the 81-84 in OO gauge and 81-85 in N gauge over a period of time in what is being called their ‘west coast range’.

This press release went out to the mags last Thursday by the way.

The range will also include EMU’s ....classes 303, 304 and 312 at present.

However, this is all a proposal, but they do have the best intentions, so we will have to see how the APT project gets along

Cheers

Dave

Durham Trains does realise that Durham isn’t on the left coast but the East don’t they ?

 

Shouldn’t they be modelling J class wrecks and other aged 0-6-0 heaps ?

- but i’m Glad they’re not !

 

APT is a niche, and much like the Hornby one, iconic.

 

It will appeal to the right people, even if it’s expensive, but as already stated it will be a model which when it’s gone it’s gone.

 

I have two Hornby ones, to make into 7 car rake, but lack the full openFirst and Open Second as it was never done, it’s also a model past it’s age.

Edited November 28, 2017 by adb968008

[DJM Dave]

Durham Trains does realise that Durham isn’t on the left coast but the East don’t they ?

Shouldn’t they be modelling J class wrecks and other aged 0-6-0 heaps ?

- but i’m Glad they’re not !

Tut tut tut ;-) lol

[Mike Storey]

Durham Trains does realise that Durham isn’t on the left coast but the East don’t they ?

 

Shouldn’t they be modelling J class wrecks and other aged 0-6-0 heaps ?

- but i’m Glad they’re not !

 

Yeah - it's for tax reasons.

[DJM Dave]

Hi Dave

Firstly my appoligy for being down beat hear but I think this maybe a difficult project to do and mite fall short due to the cost but I hope I'm wrong and if I win the lottery I'll call you but don't hold your breath

Thanks

Alan

Hi Alan,

 

It’s a bold bold statement of intent by Durham Trains of Stanley, and I have to say Mick has his heart in the right place in all this.

So far though, without press publishing etc, we both think the ‘take up’ has been fantastic.

 

This I think, is ‘the’ opportunity to get this train as a great model on your layouts and I very much doubt a 14 car train of an iconic UK prototype set will be offered again any time soon.

 

I for one, as a young lad spending time at Tring watching banger blue electrics trundle through, loved that era, place and the trains, and would have to do a layout based on a west coast theme.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Silverstreak]

How much longer for an O Gauge J94

[tomparryharry]

How much longer for an O Gauge J94

 

Longer?

 

Well, the 00 model is about 5"long, so I'd guess about 7 3/4-8". Give or take an odd thou or two.

 

It's probably a bit taller & wider as well.....

 

Sorry, it's a cheap shot, but I couldn't resist it. Blame it on my advancing age, and retreating hair!

[truffy]

Why on earth is a haulier concerned about his name being on toy trains?

 

If you want to monetise their brand, they want a cut. Simple greed commercial nouce is all.

[Andy Hayter]

Olddudders  asked:

 

Why on earth is a haulier concerned about his name being on toy trains?

 

If you want to monetise their brand, they want a cut. Simple greed commercial nouce is all.

 

 

While there might be an element of that, it is generally not the prime reason.

 

Failure to enforce the use of a trademark, can lead to its loss of recognition as a trademark.  If the trademark is your company name then you are scr€wed.

 

https://lawshelf.com/courseware/entry/loss-of-trademark-rights-section-10643​  - for those of a legal bent.

 

The problems is of course that if you are happy to sell the rights on a model for a nominal £1, by the time the lawyers have drafted the agreement, there are several noughts added.

 

The most bizarre case of enforcing a trademark in models that I have seen occurred back in the 1990s/ early noughties.  

 

The Accor hotel group at that time owned the Wagon Lits and CIWL trademarks.  At that tome Jouef were producing a range of H0 scale CIWL coaches.  Accor prosecuted Jouef for infringement of their trade mark - IIRC specifically the CIWL crest - and won.  At that time Accor were running the Venice Simplon Orient Express and were selling their clients the Jouef models -that they objected to - as souvenirs!

[Oldddudders]

If you want to monetise their brand, they want a cut. Simple greed commercial nouce is all.

Protecting the brand is essential, of course. Requiring licences to use the branding is a reasonable part of that. Charging real money for those licences to firms in the toy train market is cheap, mean and unnecessary. The brand has demeaned itself.

[Andy Hayter]

I am sure many will have sympathy with that view Ian but the law is more complex.

 

My link does not seem to work for some reason so here a few abstracted sections:

 

 

Loss of Rights Due to Naked Licensing or Failure to Police

“Naked licensing” is the term used when a mark owner licenses the use of a mark without maintaining any control over its use.......

 

......By granting someone the right to use a mark and then failing to control their use of the mark, one will essentially be abandoning the mark and risk losing the exclusive right to use the mark.

 

 

None of that comes free and I think it entirely reasonable that a company should not be significantly out of pocket by releasing its use of trademark to a model company.

 

Giving it for free could lead to the mark being deemed as abandoned.

[John ks]

It may be an urban myth but I recall hearing that Santa Fe encouraged Lionel to paint their models in Santa Fe colours

 

It was free advertising for them

 

John

 

Edit I hit enter at the end of the first line & the stupid computer posted my message

Edited December 26, 2017 by John ks

[Andy Hayter]

There can certainly be benefits in terms of advertising by having models carrying a company logo, although with a shrinking market you might wonder how big the benefit would be to have a model loco or wagon with a company logo on it.

 

It is however a double edged sword since your name might become so popular as to have lost its advertising power.  How many here have a hoover at home not made by Hoover?  I wonder if Hoover have effectively lost their trade mark if used as a lower case name.

 

In France the elderly generation still understand "to take the Crampton" to mean take a train even though Crampton locomotives probably ceased commercial service before WW1.  Likewise railcars are often/usually referred to as Michelins - after a 1920s experiment with railcars on rubber tyred wheels and tested in the UK as well as  France - even though they produced no more units after the second world war and would be much happier to be known for the tyres and not the railcars.  Just to get back to railways.

 

EDIT for typo

Edited December 26, 2017 by Andy Hayter

[adb968008]

Aside the legal issues, it is also to ensure the brand is being recreated correctly (font, colour, proportions) and that it is being used on something appropriate to the businesses interest...

A coke van in blue rather than red isn’t something you want.

 

The below is an actual event from around 2005, but seen as such a sensitive issue I won’t name the company now, even though it’s changed it’s name.

 

A few years ago a major US corporation sanctioned some corporate gift spending in the Middle East,,.

That team locally thought a Hookah for smoking tobacco with the corporate logo as a gift for high spending sheikhs was a good idea...

The US team didn’t see it that way... when it was perceived as a corporate branded bong arrived in London. A private jet with some execs and lawyers flew out to the ME same day from the US to ensure and ovsersee as many as could be recovered were destroyed within days.

The fear was these pipes could end up on US news and cause massive damage to the brand.

Edited December 27, 2017 by adb968008

[Roy Langridge]

There can certainly be benefits in terms of advertising by having models carrying a company logo, although with a shrinking market you might wonder how big the benefit would be to have a model loco or wagon with a company logo on it.

 

It is however a double edged sword since your name might become so popular as to have lost its advertising power. How many here have a hoover at home not made by Hoover? I wonder if Hoover have effectively lost their trade mark if used as a lower case name.

 

In France the elderly generation still understand "to take the Crampton" to mean take a train even though Crampton locomotives probably ceased commercial service before WW1. Likewise railcars are often/usually referred to as Michelins - after a 1920s experiment with railcars on rubber tyred wheels and tested in the UK as well as France - even though they produced no more units after the second world war and would be much happier to be known for the tyres and not the railcars. Just to get back to railways.

 

EDIT for typo

The fact is only those of us who own a real Hoover have a Hoover at home. Hoover will defend their trademark when used by competitors, You will never see Vax or Dyson selling their products as hoovers, they are vacuum cleaners. Hoover will not go after Joe Bloggs for calling his Vax a hoover.

 

The same applies here, if a commercial company wishes to use a private logo or livery, they are required to pay a licence fee. If I, as an individual, repaint stock in that livery then whilst I have strictly broken the law, it is highly unlikely that I will be taken to court.

 

I own a company and we would never allow the use of our logo without control, and that would cost us money - money that we would expect to recoup. Without control it could be that our logo is used in a manner that damages our company.

 

Roy

Edited December 27, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[adb968008]

The fact is only those of us who own a real Hoover have a Hoover at home. Hoover will defend their trademark when used by competitors, You will never see Vax or Dyson selling their products as hoovers, they are vacuum cleaners. Hoover will not go after Joe Bloggs for calling his Vax a hoover.

The same applies here, if a commercial company wishes to use a private logo or livery, they are required to pay a licence fee. If I, as an individual, repaint stock in that livery then whilst I have strictly broken the law, it is highly unlikely that I will be taken to court.

I own a company and we would never allow the use of our logo without control, and that would cost us money - money that we would expect to recoup. Without control it could be that our logo is used in a manner that damages our conpany.

Roy

Wasn’t there a modeller on here, who modelled a refinery and was chased by the refiniery owners to remove all markings ?

[njee20]

At risk of going off tangentially the list of brand names synonymous with products is quite interesting, several I’d never thought about; biro, jet ski, breathalyser, jacuzzi, bubble wrap and onesie all spring to mind.