Oriented Strand Board (OSB) for baseboard

[Guest theonlydt]

Oh no! Not another baseboard thread!

 

Hoping to get around to a project sometime soon, but trying to achieve the same aims as most people, namely:

1. Lightweight

2. Resistant to warping and flexing

3 Suitable for modelling

 

Adding a fourth in here:

4. Control noise and vibration

 

I'm Canada based, for my sins, and was wandering around the local DIY store looking at the materials. I know most on here default to marine ply, but this can be pretty expensive, and the sheets I was looking at had to be 3/4 inches thick before they were using 5 ply construction that wasn't already thoroughly warped. Birch ply, as mentioned here, seemed the most resistant.

 

However, I was in the flooring section and saw this product:

http://www.kent.ca/kbs/en/product.jsp?skuId=1265002&navAction=jump&navId=153&prdId=1265002&catalogId=153\

Put simply it's oriented strand board/OSB/flakeboard/sterling board/aspenite, with a thin foam backing. 

 

Each panel is one inch thick, approximately 40% of that seems to be OSB, 60% is Extruded polystyrene. (the website states just under an inch thick, but the manufacturer states one inch).

They're only 6lbs in weight, for a 2 foot by 2 foot panel.

 

My thoughts:

- With a frame this would be lighter than 9mm+ marine ply

- The OSB is more resistant to warping than ply

- 2' x 2' panels gives good modular flexibility (I'd probably do 2' by 6' sections underframed)

- By using supporting cross braces each 2' under the tongue/groove it should be strong enough, but still light

- The foam will reduced noise and vibration, being directly bonded to the bottom of the OSB

- IT'S CHEAP! Between 1/3rd and 2/3rds the cost of decent, thickish plywood by surface area (depending on thickness, wood, surface finish, and economies of scale in larger panels)

 

Potential problems:

- OSB is rough and nasty - would likely need a full cork overlay for attaching, painting etc. I wondered if a thin MDF sheet would be good, as it could be bonded to the OSB (keep it from warping), and it would provide a uniform, fine surface, that would needs lots of PVA sealing....

- a 2' 2' panel won't be as strong doubled up as one 2' 4' panel, though another store seems to have 2' 4'

- Questions around fitting motors, etc - the foam won't hold screws, and the OSB is a little thin.

- The foam would act as a decent acoustic barrier between the OSB and the frame, but if screws were overtightened this would compress the foam, twisting/warping the panels with respect to others. Maybe?

- I did a search and this isn't a material typically used, but it also seems much less available in the UK than over here. Much of our housing is wood frame with OSB panels. Once sheeted (and clad) it's strong and doesn't warp/flex. Am I leaping into the unknown?

 

The plan would be to keep it inside. The room would be a minimum of 8 degrees, maximum on a summer day of likely 30 degrees. Humidity here is a female dog. Many summer days spent at 100% humidity. You sit on the sofa and it feels squelchy and wet...

 

OSB seems much better than chipboard and MDF - the question is - is it better than plywood? And is the foam useful, or going to cause more problems than it's worth?

 

Interested in thoughts and feedback.

 

Thanks

[chris p bacon]

OSB seems much better than chipboard and MDF - the question is - is it better than plywood? And is the foam useful, or going to cause more problems than it's worth?

 

Interested in thoughts and feedback.

 

Thanks

 

The foam board is not a material I've not used or seen here, but in answer to your question is OSB better than ply. . . . .No...... Definitely not.

 

We use it for structural bracing and shuttering, it has too much movement and no strength.

[LBRJ]

I have used OSB for  the floors ceilings and internal lining of sheds, it also good for stables (when horses kick it, it shatters and won't trap the hoof ).

Apart from that I cant see it as been a baseboard material.

[Guest theonlydt]

The foam board is not a material I've not used or seen here, but in answer to your question is OSB better than ply. . . . .No...... Definitely not.

 

We use it for structural bracing and shuttering, it has too much movement and no strength.

In which plane does it have movement? One where a frame would alleviate that?

 

For baseboard is the strength in the covering or the frame? My understanding was the frame had to be strong and twist free without the covering sheet - the sheet has to then be strong enough to hold the weight of landscape/scenery etc, and can add strength to the frame in one or more dimensions.

 

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the usefulness of the responses, I just want to understand it better.

[Harlequin]

I was instinctively going to say "no, not suitable" but thinking about it, OSB might be OK. I have used it extensively in the construction of my house and workshop.

 

As you say, it's rigid when fixed to a frame and surprisingly moisture resistant - especially OSB3.

 

I'm not convinced it's lighter than ply when used alone and you'd probably have to use 12mm OSB in place of 9mm ply and support it every 400mm to avoid warping.

 

Regarding the insulated floor panels, why not put the foam side up? That would solve the problem of the rough surface, might remove the need for track underlay entirely and might be a really good surface to model on!

 

OSB does have rough edges that tend to flake with repeated handling so you might have to clad the edges.

 

Having said all that, you can't beat birch ply - it's a really lovely material to work with.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Harlequin

[chris p bacon]

In which plane does it have movement? One where a frame would alleviate that?

 

 

You would ideally need to brace it at 300mmm intervals to stop sag.

 

As a rough constructional board it is ideal but for our purposes there are too many negatives. I work with the material most days and I'm a fan of it, but as a baseboard it really isn't suitable. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

As crispy has said it's ideal in the right application, like MDF,inherently it has no linear strength so will sag like billyho unless regularly braced, but then you've negated any weight savings.

Marine ply may be the most expensive road to go down, but for guarenteed results it can't really be beaten.

 

Mike.

[Arthur]

 

Ply also has a more consistent surface and construction. Having recently used OSB to roof an outbuilding (subsequently clad in metal tiling) I found different parts of the OSB more or less difficult to drive screws into. Depended on just what bit of the material mix formed the surface at any one part.

 

.

[pete_mcfarlane]

I'm Canada based, for my sins, and was wandering around the local DIY store looking at the materials. I know most on here default to marine ply, but this can be pretty expensive, and the sheets I was looking at had to be 3/4 inches thick before they were using 5 ply construction that wasn't already thoroughly warped. Birch ply, as mentioned here, seemed the most resistant.

DIY store plywood is generally of low quality. A timber merchant should be able to sell you decent quality 1/4" plywood (and probably for less than the DIY store wants for warped low quality stuff) . 

[unravelled]

There is also the possible reaction between expanded polystyrene and plastic sheathing on wires. This seems to have caught out a few modellers in the past.

 

Dave

[brossard]

I went to a timber merchant for my plywood.  I got 12mm (1/2") Russian ply for the ends, 1/2" rubbish both sides for the sides and 3/8" VG one side for the tops.  The merchant cut the 25mm and 1/2" ply into 4" strips for me so it was then a matter of sticking it all together.

 

Some more details here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127114-another-as-yet-unnamed-7mm-layout/

 

John

Edited November 20, 2017 by brossard

[The Stationmaster]

There is also the possible reaction between expanded polystyrene and plastic sheathing on wires. This seems to have caught out a few modellers in the past.

 

Dave

 

More like probable - expanded polystyrene certainly did a good job of partially melting the outer pvc covering on 1.5 mil twin + earth mains cable when I rather forgetfully put some in the wrong place when insulating my shed.  I don't know if the extruded insulating foam shares the same properties but definitely seek advice on that.

[Guest theonlydt]

More like probable - expanded polystyrene certainly did a good job of partially melting the outer pvc covering on 1.5 mil twin + earth mains cable when I rather forgetfully put some in the wrong place when insulating my shed.  I don't know if the extruded insulating foam shares the same properties but definitely seek advice on that.

Interesting - some quick googling suggests this should no longer be a problem, but wonder whether we should trust to that or not. It would be too much to ensure the wiring be sheathed in another material.

 

I don't think I have the risk tolerance to try it this time - but I do want to test it sometime. Maybe a 2x4 scenic scene or something.

[Mike Storey]

We seem to have the same problem, here in France, as you do in Canada. Most wood is crazily expensive here (except ruddy great planks used for roof trusses and beams - go figure), especially ply in any quality, and I can only imagine that it would be cheaper to use 18ct gold for my baseboards, than birch ply. It is so expensive that British and Irish "ferry builders" (the ones who arrive here after a lifelong career in pub management, scrap dealing or decorating, who miraculously know how to build an entire house, or install windows or fix your plumbing or your roof, just by crossing the Channel) tend to bring back as much as their white transit vans can carry, each time they visit the UK. But will they sell it to me? Will they heck. Not after what I called them.

 

Anyway, whilst many French layout builders have tried out all sorts of non-wood baseboards (according to the mags here), most report many problems with point motor fixings, rigidity, extra bracing and so on. Hence the favoured solution here is to use a strong frame, using the cheapest wood possible, and then a partial board surface, either just for the track layout, or larger, but in such a way that you only use less than half the amount of ply you would for a fully surfaced board. The "holes" are then filled either with the insulation board or foam, or with cheaper chipboard, wooden slats or strong wire mesh to support scenery. Perhaps this would help keep your costs down whilst maintaining a rigid track surface?

 

Me? I bring a couple of sheets of birch ply back with me on each pirate raid to cheapo Britain ....... I do compensate by spreading cheap French wine to the natives.

[Guest theonlydt]

We seem to have the same problem, here in France, as you do in Canada. Most wood is crazily expensive here (except ruddy great planks used for roof trusses and beams - go figure), especially ply in any quality, and I can only imagine that it would be cheaper to use 18ct gold for my baseboards, than birch ply. It is so expensive that British and Irish "ferry builders" (the ones who arrive here after a lifelong career in pub management, scrap dealing or decorating, who miraculously know how to build an entire house, or install windows or fix your plumbing or your roof, just by crossing the Channel) tend to bring back as much as their white transit vans can carry, each time they visit the UK. But will they sell it to me? Will they heck. Not after what I called them.

 

Anyway, whilst many French layout builders have tried out all sorts of non-wood baseboards (according to the mags here), most report many problems with point motor fixings, rigidity, extra bracing and so on. Hence the favoured solution here is to use a strong frame, using the cheapest wood possible, and then a partial board surface, either just for the track layout, or larger, but in such a way that you only use less than half the amount of ply you would for a fully surfaced board. The "holes" are then filled either with the insulation board or foam, or with cheaper chipboard, wooden slats or strong wire mesh to support scenery. Perhaps this would help keep your costs down whilst maintaining a rigid track surface?

 

Me? I bring a couple of sheets of birch ply back with me on each pirate raid to cheapo Britain ....... I do compensate by spreading cheap French wine to the natives.

I guess this is where I should say that living in a forestry area it's not *that* expensive. Just more expensive.

 

As you can see those panels were $8 each for 2x2. So $16 for 2x4. In that sheet size 1/2 plywood is about $35. (need to add tax though - so $18.50 and $40.). In GBP this translates to just over 11 pounds, and 25 pounds.

 

A 4x4 sheet of 3/4 birch ply is 38 pounds.

 

So, cheap compared to Europe, but the cost differential is why I raised the issue of OSB. There are a couple of plants around here making OSB.

[brossard]

Mike, good wood isn't cheap but neither is it ruinously expensive here.  I believe that it is false economy to use substandard material for the boards since you will spend a lot on track and infrastructure not to mention hundreds of hours of construction.  To have the boards let you down would be a tragedy (yes I've done that).

 

As I mentioned, I try to use the appropriate materials for their final use.  I don't think there is a need to use all Russian ply, it is dear and dense/heavy.

 

John

Edited November 20, 2017 by brossard

[Mike Storey]

I guess this is where I should say that living in a forestry area it's not *that* expensive. Just more expensive.

 

As you can see those panels were $8 each for 2x2. So $16 for 2x4. In that sheet size 1/2 plywood is about $35. (need to add tax though - so $18.50 and $40.). In GBP this translates to just over 11 pounds, and 25 pounds.

 

A 4x4 sheet of 3/4 birch ply is 38 pounds.

 

So, cheap compared to Europe, but the cost differential is why I raised the issue of OSB. There are a couple of plants around here making OSB.

 

That birch ply does not sound cheap compared to the UK - I think I only paid about £70 for an 8'x4' on the last visit - but I think you have made your decision now?

[brossard]

Being pedantic, when I bought my Russian ply, the man behind the counter was at pains to point out that birch ply is NOT the same as Russian ply.  The sheet I bought was 5' x 5'.  Afraid I don't recall what I paid.

 

John

[Guest theonlydt]

That birch ply does not sound cheap compared to the UK - I think I only paid about £70 for an 8'x4' on the last visit - but I think you have made your decision now?

 

8x4 was about 55 pounds for... 1/2 inch I think. So a little cheaper, but not extremely cheap.

 

Yeah, decision is to spend the money on birch ply to begin with. If I end up trying to do a cheap project sometime (low risk) I'll try the product or one like it to be able to provide feedback to people.

[JST]

We seem to have the same problem, here in France, as you do in Canada. Most wood is crazily expensive here (except ruddy great planks used for roof trusses and beams - go figure), especially ply in any quality, and I can only imagine that it would be cheaper to use 18ct gold for my baseboards, than birch ply. It is so expensive that British and Irish "ferry builders" (the ones who arrive here after a lifelong career in pub management, scrap dealing or decorating, who miraculously know how to build an entire house, or install windows or fix your plumbing or your roof, just by crossing the Channel) tend to bring back as much as their white transit vans can carry, each time they visit the UK. But will they sell it to me? Will they heck. Not after what I called them.

 

Anyway, whilst many French layout builders have tried out all sorts of non-wood baseboards (according to the mags here), most report many problems with point motor fixings, rigidity, extra bracing and so on. Hence the favoured solution here is to use a strong frame, using the cheapest wood possible, and then a partial board surface, either just for the track layout, or larger, but in such a way that you only use less than half the amount of ply you would for a fully surfaced board. The "holes" are then filled either with the insulation board or foam, or with cheaper chipboard, wooden slats or strong wire mesh to support scenery. Perhaps this would help keep your costs down whilst maintaining a rigid track surface?

 

Me? I bring a couple of sheets of birch ply back with me on each pirate raid to cheapo Britain ....... I do compensate by spreading cheap French wine to the natives.

 

Living in France I had the same problem with the price of ply. I resolved it by using somewhat chunky timbers (demi chevron) for the frame and topped it off with 16mm chipboard at €16 a sheet (2.5 x1.25 mtrs). A bit agricultural but it won't fall down! I found OSB of a decent quality to be a bit pricey here as well.

[Junctionmad]

I now use , 6mm Russian birch ply which I buy in Ireland for 17 euros for a 1525 mm square sheet ( single sheet price , good discounts for multiple sheet orders ) , I have the supplier ( he has a CNC saw ) cut some of it into strips 120mm mm wide . This is MR BB/BB ply very good stuff indeed . I see no need for marine ply , which is WBP glue, for an indoor project . BB is about the best face material you can get in ply these days as B is nearly unobtainable , BB/CP with the reverse side face just sanded is also acceptable and may be a little cheaper ( by comparison with your prices , 8x4 sheets of 12mm birch ply WBP glue BB/CP , is 44 euros , 12 mm MR BB/BB 1.525m square is 25 euros , all prices inc 23% VAT )

 

I then create a " egg box" approx 300 mm square using the 120 mm ply strips , these are initially hot glue tacked and then all seams are taped with fibreglass tape and resin. No fasteners are used . I cut the strips to length but in a chop saw

 

The resulting structure is flat , rigid ( we tested siting a 9 stone man on it , with the board just supported at the corners ) and a 5 by 2 foot ( mixing my measurements here ) baseboard can be held aloft in a single hand. there is no warping longitudinally or traversely but it will twist diagonally about 15 mm , so your baseboard legs must be level.

 

Never going near 2x1 and heavy ply again

 

OSB, MDF and chipboard are all junk for base boards imho , osb is not particularly flat , needs to be thick and hence heavy for any strength , and mdf , because it will always sag and its hydroscopic, and is about good enough as firewood ! ( which is choice from me , because the county where I live has both an MDF plant and an osb plant in it !!! ( and even though the OSB raw timber is delivered by rail , I still wouldn't use it !!!! ) . The typical scenario of bracing ply with red/white deal timber is also poor , as these days sawn timber is of poor quality and often warps in centrally heated houses, in fact it's usually the ply ends up bracing the deal !

 

Here's a pic of a test board , 1 foot wide ( actually 350 mm ) I left lying around in several rooms for months to see if any issues developed

 

Given the cost of today's model railway , it's a foolish step to skimp on baseboards , im seen enough horror stories in my time( the outer " channel " is where I place all the electrics and servo motors )

 

I have just created a laser cut version which interlocks together for my clubs o gauge layout.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Junctionmad

[Enterprisingwestern]

Magnetic ply wood and furniture, Ireland is an interesting place these days!

 

Mike.