layout planning help

[mark374]

Hi all

 

After being to Workington MRE again  has made me want to finally build a layout that i can take to shows,   i have a rough idea what i want  but stuck to come up with a plan 

 

 

Im looking to build a layout up to 11x7ft to sit in my shed  but also build extra boards so when i take it shows i can extend it to up to 20-22ft x 10-15ft  these may be highspeed lines or fiddle yard extensiosn

 

im looking to build a working loco depot,  to house some of my collection with a 4-6 road shed and sidings,    a 4 platform station with two trough roads, and a freight & coach yard  along with a town scene  and a high rise line over a bridge,    i know i could build a bridge board as a extension   

 

also thinking of a fiddle yard that i can add at shows

 

anyone got any track plan ideas   

 

 

also thinking of running one or two american trains  so can you run HO trains on OO track 

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Mark

[Zomboid]

also thinking of running one or two american trains so can you run HO trains on OO track

 

Yes. Wheel standards vary, so you might want to think about that if you're considering hand built track, but if it's Peco or similar then you shouldn't have any trouble.

[Nick Holliday]

Just be mindful that US locos are much taller than UK and you may have problems, despite the scale factor, getting them under any bridges, particularly if you are trying to keep clearances to a minimum to reduce any gradients.

[Chimer]

Trying hard to visualise how this might work......  

 

Q1, is this going to be a roundy-roundy, both at home and on the road? 

Q2, are you planning/prepared to do without a fiddle yard in home mode? 

Q3, how long do you want your passenger trains (and therefore platforms)?

 

At the moment, I'm thinking you'll only get the station you want on one of the 11' extension boards.

 

Best of luck!

 

Chris

[mark374]

Thanks for the help all,    I might look at trying to by a dummy American loco and one or two boxcars  when i start the build  to see if it will work   dont really want to splash out on a model and a rake of american stock for it to not fit 

 

 

Trying hard to visualise how this might work......  

 

Q1, is this going to be a roundy-roundy, both at home and on the road? 

Q2, are you planning/prepared to do without a fiddle yard in home mode? 

Q3, how long do you want your passenger trains (and therefore platforms)?

 

At the moment, I'm thinking you'll only get the station you want on one of the 11' extension boards.

 

Best of luck!

 

Chris

 

 

Hi Chris

 

Q1   yes it is going to be a roundy roundy layout for both home and show

Q2   yes  im only planning a fiddle yard for shows 

Q3   at the moment im looking at passenger trains around 1 loco and a max of 6 coaches  ( A4 falcon with 6 Hornby railroad teaks) 

 

Hope this helps 

 

Mark

[imt]

............

Im looking to build a layout up to 11x7ft to sit in my shed  but also build extra boards so when i take it shows i can extend it to up to 20-22ft x 10-15ft  these may be highspeed lines or fiddle yard extensiosn

 

im looking to build a working loco depot,  to house some of my collection with a 4-6 road shed and sidings,    a 4 platform station with two trough roads, and a freight & coach yard  along with a town scene  and a high rise line over a bridge,    i know i could build a bridge board as a extension   

 

also thinking of a fiddle yard that i can add at shows

 

............

 

If you are hoping for that lot in 11' by 7' you are in for disappointment I fear.  Try buying a track plan book which will give you a whole load of layouts to look at.  If you buy a Freezer one remember that it will need some size adjustment for modern Streamline or equivalent dimensions.

 

You could look at something like Crewlisle (Google this forum) which is roundy roundy on 3 levels and goes to shows, but wanting extensible as well is quite a challenge.

Edited November 21, 2017 by imt

[Flying Pig]

Brian D's layout Deneside is built in an 11'x7' shed and has gone through a number of design iterations which may give you some idea of what can be fitted in. Thread here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89435-deneside-br-north-eastern-region/

[DCB]

I  can't see a 11 X 7 being extendable to 20 X 15 without some extensive compromises but best of luck.

 

Check out CJ Freezer, watch the gradients as he designed for big hairy chested Hornby Dublo and White metal kit locos which were phenomenal hill climbers compared to todays feeble equivalents.  Freezer often used a curved diamond which is no longer available if it ever was available, so beware, but basically he used streamline points and 2nd radius minimum, often 2ft radius minimum and if you allow 10% extra its usually fine.  I have a CJF Inspired unfinished layout which is 6'4" X 4'6" which takes 6 coach trains (Just) with terminus continuous run and spiral to reverse loop on 3 levels so  11X 7 should be a doddle.  

 

Check out Crewlisle if you want a master class in how to cram several gallons into a pint pot!

[Chimer]

This is my initial thought ...... given that I agree with other commentators that you can't get it all into 11' x 7' ........

 

 

The blue shapes are the permanent bits, green the extensions.  Total size is 22' x 14', with the boards 2' wide - 2'6" or 3' at the top might be better, but would start to cramp the operating well a bit.  The black line represents the double track main line.  It doesn't have to go straight across the green boards, but obviously the ends must match up.  I have attempted to show transition curves, starting sharp (say settrack R3 and R4) then easing to a radius you won't mind having visible so much, at top left and bottom right.

 

The station is shown on an extension board because you need at least six feet of platform for a six coach train, and eighteen inches of throat pointwork at each end, so nine feet in a straight line before trying to fit in points for the goods yard etc.  You can't get that into the shed as you also need at least two feet at each end of that for the 90^o curves.  Putting the station partly on the transition curve would help, but not enough.  You could have platforms shorter than your crack train, which wouldn't need to stop, but for a four platform, six track station that would look all wrong to me.

 

So the suggested compromise is to do without the station at home, getting operational enjoyment from the carriage sidings, goods yard and loco depot (which I had indicated would go in the bottom right hand corner, but I now see the label has got lost in translation).

 

Hope that gives some food for thought without being too discouraging .......

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[imt]

Well - I left it last night, since it seemed unkind and the germ of the idea you need was there BUT please remember you are operating and looking from INSIDE the layout.  The solution needs to move the blue boards crosswise, so back scenes etc. are now in the middle and the viewer sees the layout from OUTSIDE the oblong.

 

You can design a layout which will work from inside OR outside - but that needs to be a specific design criterion and have a good deal of thought applied to it.  Crewlisle does seem to work viewed either way as anybody who has seen it at an exhibition will attest.

 

One way might be to build the scenery with an outline shape on the back of the board so that when it becomes the front in an exhibition (having left behind in the shed any back scene) it still looks OK.  I expect you will then need an exhibition backscene to go all round the inside of your layout.

 

I for one would love to see this design as it develops - so please do post it here.

[Chimer]

IMT - I understand the general point about backscenes (tricky given this has got to work happily for the OP at home too), but no idea what you mean by needing to move the blue boards crosswise?

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[imt]

IMT - I understand the general point about backscenes (tricky given this has got to work happily for the OP at home too), but no idea what you mean by needing to move the blue boards crosswise?

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

Well I had this silly idea that such a move would put back scenes at the back against the shed walls. It will of course but the 90 degree corners will need to poke through the shed walls and nothing will connect up.  Just ignore this old fool.  There may be something in my ramblings, but the design process so corner pieces could be rotated and so on is too difficult to contemplate!  Sorry!

[Zomboid]

If you want something extendable then I'd recommend adopting (or inventing) a modular standard - there's a British one on this forum which didn't really catch on, or the US Freemo standard which is not all that different. Anyway, the idea would be that you could build a set of corners and a set of straight boards which could be set up on a variety of configurations, some of which might fit in the shed, and the whole lot could be taken to an exhibition or set up in the garden or something.

[mark374]

Thanks all  for the tips,  

 

The backscene ive had an idea for which is having two lots one for at home another for shows which will bolt on and off,  and build the scenery around the track

 

Mark

[mark374]

Quick note to the station   im now planning on doing a curved station as i belive this could help shorten the area needed and allow a 6 coach train in  plus when at shows i can add a 2ft extension board on one end to length it  and keep it simple

 

 

Mark

[The Johnster]

I  can't see a 11 X 7 being extendable to 20 X 15 without some extensive compromises but best of luck.

 

Check out CJ Freezer, watch the gradients as he designed for big hairy chested Hornby Dublo and White metal kit locos which were phenomenal hill climbers compared to todays feeble equivalents.  Freezer often used a curved diamond which is no longer available if it ever was available, so beware, but basically he used streamline points and 2nd radius minimum, often 2ft radius minimum and if you allow 10% extra its usually fine.  I have a CJF Inspired unfinished layout which is 6'4" X 4'6" which takes 6 coach trains (Just) with terminus continuous run and spiral to reverse loop on 3 levels so  11X 7 should be a doddle.  

 

Check out Crewlisle if you want a master class in how to cram several gallons into a pint pot!

 

 

The Freezer plans have been around for years, but I would advise a degree of wariness and skepticism towards them; I suspect not all of them have ever been actually built.  They are inspirational, and look amazing on paper but require very considerable woodworking expertise if more than one level is involved, as it usually is, and were designed for an era when nobody batted an eyelid at 3 coach or 9 wagon trains in main line modelling; things were a bit more 'represntational' in those days!  Very steep gradients and very sharp curves are the norm.

 

I suspect you are in some danger of making the rookie mistake of trying to fit too much into a small space, and while I have no wish to tell you what you need to do, must say that it is better in general to go with what fits easily than with what takes some effort to cram in!