Dublo wobble...

[Prometheus]

I'd really appreciate a view here...

 

Both of my HD/Wrenn Duchess/City locos have a wobble when running . Others I've seen have exhibited this too, it almost seems a characteristic of the chassis. Am I correct in thinking that it's down to the width of the tyre on the drivers, so allowing excess lateral movement when running?  [or perhaps the distance between the flanges and the inner face of the rails].

 

As the front bogie and rear truck neither bear weight nor guide the loco in any way, the chassis is, in effect, a long one with substantial front and rear overhangs running on a relatively short six-wheel chassis, the centre wheels being unflanged.

 

I'm not keen to re-wheel. Is there likely to be any other explanation for the wobble?

 

thanks all.

 

Tony

[Il Grifone]

Is this a lateral side to side 'hunt'? If so it's probably due to one of the axles being slightly bent or possibly a wheel loose on its axle. This is especially likely in the case of an Atholls or gloss Montrose which have the narrow axle ends, but can occur with any of them. The long chassis without any side control of the bogie and pony doesn't help. Running the locomotive upside down with the aid of flying leads should prove the point - any wheel running out of true should be immediately obvious. Correction involves carefully levering of the offending wheel with a screwdriver suitable tool. The 2 rail locos have relatively soft bushes which can cause this. New Wrenn replacements are avilable on eBay.

 

Araldite will cure loose wheels.

[sagaguy]

I'd really appreciate a view here...

 

Both of my HD/Wrenn Duchess/City locos have a wobble when running . Others I've seen have exhibited this too, it almost seems a characteristic of the chassis. Am I correct in thinking that it's down to the width of the tyre on the drivers, so allowing excess lateral movement when running?  [or perhaps the distance between the flanges and the inner face of the rails].

 

As the front bogie and rear truck neither bear weight nor guide the loco in any way, the chassis is, in effect, a long one with substantial front and rear overhangs running on a relatively short six-wheel chassis, the centre wheels being unflanged.

 

I'm not keen to re-wheel. Is there likely to be any other explanation for the wobble?

 

thanks all.

 

Tony

First thing,check that the drivers are square on the axles,2 rail versions have plastic insulating insulating bushes in the wheel centres & they can shift on the axle especially Wrenn versions.Turn the loco upside down on the bench & apply current,you should soon see if they are wobbling side to side,sometimes, a small screwdriver can be used to gently adjust any wobble.

 

                              Ray.

[sagaguy]

Is this a lateral side to side 'hunt'? If so it's probably due to one of the axles being slightly bent or possibly a wheel loose on its axle. This is especially likely in the case of an Atholls or gloss Montrose which have the narrow axle ends, but can occur with any of them. The long chassis without any side control of the bogie and pony doesn't help. Running the locomotive upside down with the aid of flying leads should prove the point - any wheel running out of true should be immediately obvious. Correction involves carefully levering of the offending wheel with a screwdriver suitable tool. The 2 rail locos have relatively soft bushes which can cause this. New Wrenn replacements are avilable on eBay.

 

Araldite will cure loose wheels.

Hah!! you beat me to it.

 

                Ray.

[locomad]

First thing,check that the drivers are square on the axles,2 rail versions have plastic insulating insulating bushes in the wheel centres & they can shift on the axle especially Wrenn versions.Turn the loco upside down on the bench & apply current,you should soon see if they are wobbling side to side,sometimes, a small screwdriver can be used to gently adjust any wobble.

 

                              Ray.

Interesting this as I've a few wrenn/Hornby-dublo which have a wobble what I often find on the up side down test it's not just one wheel/axle but all apart from centre which wobble.

 

I've a very wobbly castle I'am not quite sure of the heritage, body is no good indication as they are easy to swop, it's a 1/2 inch motor with Hornby-dublo or wrenn wheels, but it's got a 3 rail tender base (one with pick ups) but again tenders get swopped. It's got a Hornby dublo plastic pick up on main chassis.

 

What is different is the axle ends are black, while most others are shiny metal is it a converted 3 rail using wrenn parts?

 

It wobbles dreadfully I've tried in the past screwdriver lever, I've taken the insulated wheel off using a proper wheel puller and tried to reset it's tight, should I have used new insulated bushes?

 

I tend to believe now it should be left, it goes, it pulls quite a load, about the same as a ring field, it looks better as you have a cab (with crew in) I've got use to the wobble, maybe it's all part of the rich difference between locos, bit like the real thing

[sagaguy]

It`s a Hornby Dublo Castle & it sounds like it`s was originally 3 rail converted to 2 rail,Wrenn castles always used a ringfield motor,1/2" motors were used in Bristol Castle.It`s certainly worth repairing,there are some very good repairers out there,The Dublo Surgeon for one.He will also supply new bushes if you wanted to do it yourself.

 

                        Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Ray,

 

Denbigh Castle also used the 1/2" motor chassis. Bristol was the 3-rail version and Denbigh the 2-rail one. Those are the only two body swaps as the Ringfield casting was different. The Ringfields were Cardiff for 2-rail and Ludlow for 3-rail, then, there were all the Wrenn ones that fitted the Ringfield chassis.

 

Locomad,

 

Bristol Castle was the only Castle version with Mazak wheels, all the others had the nickel plated ones that both Dublo and Wrenn used. For a long time Wrenn still used the same 3-rail tender base with holes for the pick-up plungers. It was only later on in Wrenns existance that these holes were filled in.

 

In BR livery only the Castle and 8F had four different variations as these were the only two locos to have different chassis's fitted. The A4 had three identities, the Duchess and E3002 just the one and the rest had two. I cannot remember if the EMU got a different number for 2 and the 3-rail version like the others did.

 

Garry

Edited November 28, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[Prometheus]

The upside-down test, carried out, showed no eccentric rotation of the drivers but, as I had suspected [in this case], an amount of lateral movement, exaggerated to an extent on the track by wide-ish tyres. When running, and pulling a load [10 Pullmans], the wobble is diminished but not negated. I guess that re-wheeling would deal with this but a] expensive and b] the point of the restoration was to keep everything as original as possible.

 

I'll probably live with it. I'm not hugely unhappy about it really.

 

But thank you all for your observations.

 

Tony

[Il Grifone]

 Some sort of spring control for bogies/ponies would probably help. There is a fair amount of slop in Dublo wheel/rail standards which allows any wheels running out of true to have full rein to cause wobble. The W.C. chassis has these items sprung and seems stable (or at least mine does).

 

AFAIK all Dublo and Wrenn locos have shiny axles, bit a spot of black paint will cure this. Th euse of acrylic paint will enable it to be easily cleaned off again to keep collector's happy. The wheel tyres (not the treads and flanges of course) also benefit from blackening. It makes the underscale wheels appear larger.

 

My 'horseshoe' Duchess came with 26mm Romfords. These looked better, but resulted in a locomotive which could almost reach Tri-ang speeds and would fly off the track at the first curve. Their plastic bodies allow Tri-ang locos to stay on the rails due a lower baricentre. She now has Dublo wheels....

 

Has anyone one tried to make a single chimney pre-war Duchess or a post-war 'Semi'? I think there is enough metal to take a file to the smokebox, but I haven't tried as yet.

[Golden Fleece 30]

 Some sort of spring control for bogies/ponies would probably help. There is a fair amount of slop in Dublo wheel/rail standards which allows any wheels running out of true to have full rein to cause wobble. The W.C. chassis has these items sprung and seems stable (or at least mine does).

 

AFAIK all Dublo and Wrenn locos have shiny axles, bit a spot of black paint will cure this. Th euse of acrylic paint will enable it to be easily cleaned off again to keep collector's happy. The wheel tyres (not the treads and flanges of course) also benefit from blackening. It makes the underscale wheels appear larger.

 

My 'horseshoe' Duchess came with 26mm Romfords. These looked better, but resulted in a locomotive which could almost reach Tri-ang speeds and would fly off the track at the first curve. Their plastic bodies allow Tri-ang locos to stay on the rails due a lower baricentre. She now has Dublo wheels....

 

Has anyone one tried to make a single chimney pre-war Duchess or a post-war 'Semi'? I think there is enough metal to take a file to the smokebox, but I haven't tried as yet.

How about this one David?  It is not my work of art though, it is how it came to me a long time ago. One Dublo enthusiast has converted an Atholl into the single chimney version AND made the presentation box for it and two coaches that was once contemplated but never made.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

Garry,

 

That's settled it. My blue Coronation is going to have her smokebox attended to and acquire a utility front end. A nice new sharp file is called for I think. I could then use my Wrenn 'City of Glasgow' nameplate transfers correctly (the Wrenn model incorrectly has a cylindrical smokebox), though I was going to use them on a standard green one.  I probably will as there are plenty of ex-streamliners to choose from and a limited number with the curved frames.

 

David

[sagaguy]

Keep us posted on this conversion,if the worst comes to the worst,you can get car body filler from Halfords.

 

Ray.

[Il Grifone]

Keep us posted on this conversion,if the worst comes to the worst,you can get car body filler from Halfords.

 

Ray.

 

Filler is an important part of the Grifone toolkit!  2 part plastic metal is a favourite.

 

The conversion is on hold until warmer weather comes along. It was 10°C in my workroom/conservatory this morning! Of course I could wait until SWMBO goes shopping and work in the kitchen, but zinc alloy filings are not really a good idea in there. If I can find where I put her (the Duchess not SWMBO!), I'll post a photo of her current state*. There are a couple of black ones too. One is to be a CPR no. 1215 replica and the other in LMS 1946 black (Atholl with blinkers?) or BR lined black as favoured by Crewe before they were reminded that class 7 (as it was then) passenger livery was supposed to be blue. (Strangely only Swindon fully embraced this idea, but made up for it later on.)

 

*There's a box somewhere containing about half a dozen Dublo Duchesses, but I have a feeling she's not one of them.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Il Grifone

[sagaguy]

Filler is an important part of the Grifone toolkit!  2 part plastic metal is a favourite.

  Mine`s Araldite Rapid!.

 

                      Ray.