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Bachmann at Warley 2017


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I'll throw my twopennorth in re: the GWR mogul and Manor. Personally, the mogul would be the more useful model: a bigger class, went through a number of mods, varioations and liveries, were maids of all work, and found all over the GWR system: from Cornwall to Birkenhead, from London to Fishguard, and all types of train: express parcels, perishable goods, secondary main line all-stoppers etc. My dream 1947 GWR layout would require three or four of the beasts. 

 

The Manors meanwhile, are handsome locos, are namers, are popular in preservation, and were very much the flagships of the Cambrian Coast Express. But, they were geographically pretty restricted throughout their lives; confined mostly to North Wales and the West Midlands in both GWR and BR days; you'd be hard pushed to find one anywhere between London and Penzance, or in South Wales. I'd probably need one, at a push two for my dream layout, but no more. 

 

I want both, but really you are comparing an LMS Crab type loco versus a Jubilee type loco; or a Southern N or U class mogul versus a Schools Class. There's room for both but they are very different locos. I wouldn't mind this debate over which ought to come first but they share the same drivring wheels and tender anyway!

 

CoY

Hi

 

The only issue I have is if they do the manor in the 3 liverys (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that 7819 ever wore I believe GWR shirt button (last badge of the GWR I think) BR black early Crest and BR Green but it would be 7819 Hinton manor that I favour as the last manor that the GWR built

 

Thanks

Alan

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I was on site soon after the first Dinting derailment circa 1981 which tore up the down mainline platform. A steam crane came late afternoon. So suitable for modern Image? I would say so, but themn I am no authority on steam cranes.

Edited by coachmann
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I was on site soon after the first Dinting derailment circa 1981 which tore up the down mainline platform. A steam crane came late afternoon. So suitable for modern Image? I would say so, but themn I am no authority on steam cranes.

There’s a website for everything...

http://www.bdca.org.uk/steamreplaced.html

 

The last “lift” by a BR owned steam powered crane was August 1989.

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I was on site soon after the first Dinting derailment circa 1981 which tore up the down mainline platform. A steam crane came late afternoon. So suitable for modern Image? I would say so, but themn I am no authority on steam cranes.

My dad was on the Breakdown Train from Springs Branch, I think they went to both accidents at Dinting, MGR train and also ammonia tanks?

 

 

Ian

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My dad re-railed a train with a lollipop stick* somewhere between Bulawayo and Hwange. Do I win a prize? I only ask as I managed to walk past 'Bachmann's Tragic Overdrive' with maximum dilligaf.

 

*It may have been a jolly big stick made of metal, I heard this second hand.

 

Bernie

 

edited for spullong and grummans.

Edited by Finsbury
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Seems pretty clear cut, You pay a premium to be allowed in to see the EP's, and livery samples. Pictures of these, which are slightly less blurry than some of the pictures taken at the show (hat, coat, etc) end up all over forums and social media anyways, as Andy Y has already posted. Thanks Andy, and others that have posted pictures. 

 

As someone on the far side of the world, this is the only way I'll ever be able to see these items without purchasing them.

 

I think that's pretty much one of the reasons why people are p***ed off with Bachmann's decision to exclude 'mere customers' from viewing new items.  For many, myself included, visiting a local model shop to see new models 'in the flesh' is not an option, so quite often an annual visit to Warley is sometimes the only chance of viewing before you buy.  If I were the type of customer who preferred to see items before purchase, as I am sure many may well understandably be, then I would have thought that Bachmann's move can only succeed in losing potential advance sales.

 

Collectors Club members may well have payed a subscription, but remember too that Warley visitors in general have paid an entrance fee and in many cases may well have travelled a fair distance with the accompanying travel expenses too.  From a marketing/competition standpoint think of it this way - Hornby had samples of their forthcoming Class 800 and 87s on display, whereas Bachmann's Class 90 and other new items were 'off limits' to the majority of its customer base.  Okay, any retailer/seller will already know that customers can be a fickle bunch, so supposing I am poised with my credit card and keen to pre-order either Bachmann's or Hornby's forthcoming products, well, where am I now likely to spend my cash?  Will it be Bachmann with their 'off limits'/"No you're not coming in squire" approach?  Or will it be Hornby with their gleaming new wares on display for all to see and helpful staff happy to answer any questions? 

 

For some to also say that, "The photos are online anyway in a couple of days so what's the problem?" is just ridiculous.  If that's going to be the case in future then we might all as well stay at home and not bother to visit Warley at all - it'll save everyone some cash and we won't have missed anything anyway.  And what happens if other manufacturers decide to adopt a similar policy, are we all going to have to join each and every 'club' in order to be able to see anything worthwhile?   This hobby is expensive enough as it is without milking further cash from the 'mere customers', surely?

 

At the end of the day I personally found Bachmann's stance pretty off-putting, which instead of making me want to sign up to the Collectors Club instead tends to make me feel less willing to divert my hard-earned funds in their direction in the first place, however good their products may or may not be.  Of course, Bachmann may well see their move as a direct way of increasing Collectors Club memberships - perhaps they are right, who can say.  In my view it simply appears to be a great way of alienating the largest portion of your customer base.  After all, they only wish to show the new models to Collectors Club members, but will of course be happy to accept the sales revenue from us 'mere customers' when it suits.  What's that saying, something about "Wanting one's cake..."?!

Edited by YesTor
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I think my bigger problem with the lounge set-up was that it made it very hard to ask questions about products, the only Bachmann staff visible were all involved with Woodland Scenics demos or manning the door to the inner sanctum. I'm glad to say that when I asked the "doorman" he did go and get someone to answer my questions whereupon I was invited in to the holy of holies and had a very good look at both the 90 and the freightliner flats. (Oh and ran into Andy Y...)
It does seem a strange way to meet the customer though!

Andi

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I did want to go to Warley, but decided not to. Not for perhaps Bachmann, or Hornby for that matter. It's about 20-odd hours, and about £200, plus whatever I'd really like to buy.

 

As much as the national show appeals, I can visit a local show, easier travelling time, and more money in my pocket to buy what I'd need.

 

Whether I attend or otherwise, do you really think my appearance will galvanise the larger producers to suddenly start producing new items? No, I think not...The sun doesn't shine out of my ar$e....

 

Ian.

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I think that's pretty much one of the reasons why people are p***ed off with Bachmann's decision to exclude 'mere customers' from viewing new items.  For many, myself included, visiting a local model shop to see new models 'in the flesh' is not an option, so quite often an annual visit to Warley is sometimes the only chance of viewing before you buy.  If I were the type of customer who preferred to see items before purchase, as I am sure many may well understandably be, then Bachmann's move can only succeed in losing potential advance sales.
 
Collectors Club members may well have payed a subscription, but remember too that Warley visitors in general have paid an entrance fee and in many cases may well have travelled a fair distance with the accompanying travel expenses too.  From a marketing/competition standpoint think of it this way - Hornby had samples of their forthcoming Class 800 and 87s on display, whereas Bachmann's Class 90 and other new items were 'off limits' to the majority of its customer base.  Okay, any retailer/seller will already know that customers can be a fickle bunch, so supposing I am poised with my credit card and keen to pre-order either Bachmann's or Hornby's forthcoming products, well, where am I now likely to spend my cash?  Will it be Bachmann with their 'off limits'/"No you're not coming in squire" approach?  Or will it be Hornby with their gleaming new wares on display for all to see and helpful staff happy to answer any questions? 
 
For some to also say that, "The photos are online anyway in a couple of days" is just ridiculous.  If that's going to be the case in future then we might all as well stay at home and not bother to visit Warley at all - it'll save everyone some cash and we won't have missed anything anyway.  And what happens if other manufacturers decide to adopt a similar policy, are we all going to have to join each and every 'club' in order to be able to see anything worthwhile?   This hobby is expensive enough as it is without milking further cash from the 'mere customers', surely?
 
At the end of the day I personally found Bachmann's stance pretty off-putting, which tends to make me feel less willing to divert my hard-earned funds in their direction, however good their products may or may not be.  Of course, Bachmann may well see their move as a direct way of increasing Collectors Club memberships.  Maybe they are right, who can say.  In my view it simply appears to be a great way of alienating the largest portion of your customer base.  After all, they only wish to show the models to Collectors Club members, but will of course be happy to accept the sales revenue from us 'mere customers' when it suits.  What's that saying, something about "Having your cake..."?!



This wasn’t the case. Please read the thread and my comments.
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Interesting the comments that people make about spending lots of hard earned cash to come to Warley, but they cannot see the Bachmann models whilst collectors club members can...

 

The collectors club, good as it is doesn’t pay travel expenses...

 

Those who are members also have to travel and have the same expenses as everyone else, it’s just they have chosen to pay a bit more.

 

The club isn’t by invitation, Anyone can join and it’s not a secret or a surprise what the activities of the club are.

 

If they really wanted to alienate non-members, they would tell members no photographs, then it is a secret.

 

To join the club or not to join the club, Its a personal choice.

Edited by adb968008
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Interesting the comments that people make about spending lots of hard earned cash to come to Warley, but they cannot see the Bachmann models whilst collectors club members can...

 

The collectors club, good as it is doesn’t pay travel expenses...

 

Those who are members also have to travel and have the same expenses as everyone else, it’s just they have chosen to pay a bit more.

 

The club isn’t by invitation, Anyone can join and it’s not a secret or a surprise what the activities of the club are.

 

If they really wanted to alienate non-members, they would tell members no photographs.

 

To join the club or not to join the club, Its a personal choice.

 

I entirely agree with you.

 

However, my view is slightly different to yours.

 

I can, indeed, pay out time & money to travel to Warley. I can look at the prospective new & upcoming products. Some may, or may not become available for sale. These products may, or may not, seriously interact with my wallet. Lets do some basic maths, shall we?

 

Day out to Warley= £200:00. Plus- Very nice crane= £235:00. Total= £435:00.

 

Bachmann will still sell me a crane, They will still return a profit on their activities. However, I don't need to spend over £200+ for Bachmann to tell me what is coming in possibly 18 months time. Can you see where I'm going with this?

 

All producers advertise their product: I personally don't need to pay out to join a 'club' where the 'committee' decide what gets made, and how much you (still) get to pay for it. Some club! I've always maintained that if a product is good, it will sell, and sell well. One or two producers have cottoned on to this, and produce stuff that will knock your socks off. To them, I say 'thank you'.  

 

I've got an excellent business idea. I'll invite some model oriented friends around to my house. I'll charge them a fee to go through the front door. Then, I'll show a model of my latest desired items. "Can I buy it?"

 

"Oh no! You'll have to wait, until I can afford to sell it to you!"

 

Exit friend.....

 

Trainee Scrooge.

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All producers advertise their product: I personally don't need to pay out to join a 'club' where the 'committee' decide what gets made, and how much you (still) get to pay for it. Some club! I've always maintained that if a product is good, it will sell, and sell well. One or two producers have cottoned on to this, and produce stuff that will knock your socks off..

I think you have maybe misunderstood the club.

 

The club is a means of communication to people who want to know a bit more about the models being created. The communications it offers is a magazine, members days and the lounge. Additionally has some exclusive models and a very good annual calendar.

It’s open to anyone who wants to know more, and the articles it publishes are very high quality.

One of the big draws for those in the thirst for knowledge is the lounge, as you get to see first, what is the latest happening, and you can talk to those creating it.Occasionally you might squeeze a deniable little tidbit of information about the future from polite conversation.

 

I’ve never been aware of any committee that decides what to make and what price, with the club... that is done just the same as any other company.. in its board room and nothing to do with club members, and usually this information is shared with everyone one and all at the same time.

 

Using your house analogy.. the decisions are made in the house, we club members are groupies who have paid to sit in their garden, waiting for something to appear in the window. Everyone else is jogging up and down the road and has an occasional glance.

 

Most people at Warley are happy to look at the outside displays, which are usually released, about to release or paint finished samples. For this who want to know more.. there’s the club. There are always those who want to know more but won’t pay and don’t want to wait...of course..

 

I’ve been a member for a few years now with no complaints, it does what it says on the tin..

Edited by adb968008
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I think you have maybe misunderstood the club.

 

The club is a means of communication to people who want to know a bit more about the models being created. The communications it offers is a magazine, members days and the lounge. Additionally has some exclusive models and a very good annual calendar.

It’s open to anyone who wants to know more, and the articles it publishes are very high quality.

One of the big draws for those in the thirst for knowledge is the lounge, as you get to see first, what is the latest happening, and you can talk to those creating it.

Occasionally you might squeeze a deniable little tidbit of information about the future from polite conversation.

 

I’ve never been aware of any committee that decides what to make and what price, with the club... that is done just the same as any other company.. in its board room and nothing to do with club members, and usually this information is shared with everyone one and all at the same time.

 

I've read your views, and yes, I still agree with you.

 

My view is still different to yours, enough to want me 'not' to join the club. I will respect those whom will want to join. Although I may take a different path, I will still have a chat, and pinch their ideas! 

 

(Still) a Trainee Scrooge.

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I've read your views, and yes, I still agree with you.

 

My view is still different to yours, enough to want me 'not' to join the club. I will respect those whom will want to join. Although I may take a different path, I will still have a chat, and pinch their ideas!

 

(Still) a Trainee Scrooge.

Fair enough,

 

However I like the idea that maybe club members could get to vote on a exclusive club edition to make...

If they made a listof options for an number of liveries/variations , members voting on for release later in the year that might be a cool idea though given factory lead times etc I don’t know how practical that would be ?..

 

My first candidate would be choose a 40, with a choice of D200/40106/40139 though in reality i’d want all 3, and i’m betting we’re going to get some 40’s anyway in 2018.

:-)

 

Maybe a 45.. with choice of 106,128 or 141 ?

 

I know the guys at Bachmann read these threads...

Edited by adb968008
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I've read your views, and yes, I still agree with you.

 

My view is still different to yours, enough to want me 'not' to join the club. I will respect those whom will want to join. Although I may take a different path, I will still have a chat, and pinch their ideas! 

 

(Still) a Trainee Scrooge.

 

Personally I joined the Bachmann Club because it has a great quarterly Collector's Club Magazine, annual wagon and access to Collector Club Models which for me leaves both Hornby & Dapol way behind in that respect why is why I am no longer a member of their so-called clubs.

I'm not bothered whether I can have access to and touch a grey EP samples of a model if I go to an exhibition and too be honest the only one I can afford to go to within my travelling distance is Ally Pally thus only once a year, I have visited their Club Lounge at Ally Pally but it is neither here or there for me.

Basically I want to see the finished painted product just before it is released and heavily rely on guys like you in these forums and magazines to give an opinion on build quality and accuracy just before or during it's release and at that point is the only time I will decide whether the model/product is the right one for me.

I think photo's are enough of an EP sample to determine whether the product will be good or not as already shown in this forum.

Edited by classy52
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Fair enough,

 

However I like the idea that maybe club members could get to vote on a exclusive club edition to make...

If they made a listof options for an number of liveries/variations , members voting on for release later in the year that might be a cool idea though given factory lead times etc I don’t know how practical that would be ?..

 

My first candidate would be choose a 40, with a choice of D200/40106/40139 though in reality i’d want all 3, and i’m betting we’re going to get some 40’s anyway in 2018.

:-)

 

Maybe a 45.. with choice of 106,128 or 141 ?

 

I know the guys at Bachmann read these threads...

 

 

And may God in his infinite mercy help them.Much worse than wearing a hair shirt....... :scared:

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Yes, thank you for repeating what I have already said - that these goodies were kept away from non-members.

 

Personally I have no interest in talking to the long-suffering development team, and if Bachmann want to keep them segregated from us great unwashed in some sort of lounge that's fine by me. As far as I'm concerned their members are most welcome to that, the dancing girls and the free caviar.

 

But I'm not sure why Bachmann thinks preventing potential customers from seeing actual samples makes any sense at all. And the things you highlight - effectively "you can look on here at photos of the samples I've seen up close" - are precisely what is pissing me off.

 

So Hornby gets a fail for boring most of us; while Bachmann for me also gets a fail for saying "hey, we've got some fantastic samples here - but *you* aren't allowed to look at them. Just orf and place your order blind, sonny".

 

No amount of positive spin from you alters that fact. But thank you for trying.

 

Paul

 

I feel compelled to ask whether you actually visited the show (the impression I get from the posts) because if you didn't and you're upset about something you couldn't get to see at a show you didn't get to go to that were entering the realms of Schrodinger's flam'n cat and a fridge again. The EP samples will also be seen at plenty of other shows around the country over coming months before they reach production and release. So at worst you will have missed the first showing of something you couldn't get to see at a show you didn't go to but saw, on here, a few hours later what you didn't get to see. Next time maybe I should ask you to cover that part of the screen that any post-show pictures may appear on.

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With regard to the travel costs various people have endured to get to Warley, due to family circumstances I couldn't make the visit, but, I was on the cusp of booking a flight for the weekend, which would have cost £42 return Alicante to Birmingham, combined with free accomodation at my daughters a train ride away, the whole weekend would have cost me, including entry ticket, well under £100.

I'm not willy waving, but just showing the economics of the madhouse when travel costs have to be factored in.

 

Mike.

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I feel compelled to ask whether you actually visited the show (the impression I get from the posts) because if you didn't and you're upset about something you couldn't get to see at a show you didn't get to go to that were entering the realms of Schrodinger's flam'n cat and a fridge again. The EP samples will also be seen at plenty of other shows around the country over coming months before they reach production and release. So at worst you will have missed the first showing of something you couldn't get to see at a show you didn't go to but saw, on here, a few hours later what you didn't get to see. Next time maybe I should ask you to cover that part of the screen that any post-show pictures may appear on.

 

Damn. I had promised to stop banging on about this but, since you have now asked me a direct question which also seems to call into question my honesty, I feel compelled to post again.

 

Yes, I drove over there on the Sunday (I made the mistake of going on a Saturday the first year I went to Warley ... never again!). 

 

Then again, I'm now beginning to wonder if you also have those damn reading comprehension difficulties, since I had written about seeing the EP samples for the lovely Class 17 on DJM's stand - in stark contrast to Bachmann's approach. 

 

As Michael has just posted, Bachmann can do as they damn well please. But since it seems fashionable this year to slag off Hornby's marketing at every opportunity, I thought it worth sharing my experience of disappointment with the other big player. 

 

Anyway, I'm glad to have given you the opportunity to vent some sarcastic spleen at one of your users. And, to reiterate yet again, I thought some of the photos of the Bachmann samples looked lovely. 

 

Paul

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Good grief there's a lot of toys on the floor in this creche today. If you go into a model shop the models are all in glass cabinets. So we get to see the model from on side. No one gets there nickers in a twist. If you are not a Bachmann club member you still get to see all the models from one side so what's the problem.

 

If you are a member you get a bottle of water stand on a different colour carpet and get to see the side of the model normally only seen by the wall!

 

If it means so much to you pay up join the club, and stop winging.

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I've read your views, and yes, I still agree with you.

 

My view is still different to yours, enough to want me 'not' to join the club. I will respect those whom will want to join. Although I may take a different path, I will still have a chat, and pinch their ideas! 

 

(Still) a Trainee Scrooge.

Well I'm a fully accredited Scrooge , but I joined the club sometime ago and not regretted it. For me the driver is the good magazine and calendar and its good value for that , although I did prefer when it was a bigger calendar. I have never bought a Limited Edition from the club and they don't have the members enclosure in Glasgow. Like others I do find the concept a bit bizarre . Surely in these circumstances you want to spread PR to as many people as possible and not restrict it to members, at least initially. I'm tending towards Pauls view , but at the end of the day , not worth getting steamed up about.

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