BR/WR Siphon G diagram O.62 in 4mm scale

[macgeordie]

This is the latest project, I have fancied having a go at one of these for a while as they were the last ones built and most were built under BR which is the period I like to model.  This variant has never been available ready to run although Blacksmith models did produce some detailing etches many many moons ago to convert the Lima van to this version.

 

These vehicles were built at Swindon to the same basic design as the earlier Siphon G vans and although they were never used to carry milk churns they were still listed as ‘Milk Vans’.

 

The main difference with the diagram O.62 vehicles compared to the earlier designs was the addition of small ventilators along the lower edge of the van sides. These vents had vertically sliding covers which could close off a vent if required.

 

The vans were built in 5 Lots over a period of 8 years.

 

Lot 1721, 30 vans numbered 1310 to 1339 were built between 1947 and 1950.

Lot 1751, 30 vans numbered 1001 to 1030 were built in 1951.

Lot 1755, 31 vans numbered 2295 to 2326 were built in 1951.

Lot 1765, 60 vans numbered 2332 to 2391 were built in 1952.

Lot 1768, 20 vans numbered 1031 to 1050 were built in 1955.

 

As built, they were all fitted with 9’ pressed steel bogies but some were changed for the 9’ American types during their lives. The first batch to Lot 1721 were fitted with GWR style square shanked buffer with 18” heads. Later batches had a BR type long round shanked buffer with ribs down the sides and 18” heads.

Most of the vans survived into the late 1970’s and early 80’s, many ending their lives in Departmental service, either as Enparts vans or as Seating Material storage vans. Others were converted to Newspaper vans where most of the ventilators were blanked off. During their working lives they were often to be seen in Parcels trains and were to be found all across the system.

 

As the saying goes, here's one I made earlier.

 

 

I've just started on the second test build so I don't have a lot of photos to post yet, here is one of the van side showing the various detail parts such as door hinges, handles and the sliding vents.

 

 

I'll add more photos to the thread as the build progresses. 

 

Ian

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

You little tinker!!!
 

Mike.

[Horsetan]

Excellent.

 

*goes off in search of preserved ones. Finds quite a few*

 

 

Errm, any chance that you'll be doing a run of etches?

[iak]

Wibble.......

More temptation of a metallic nature.

[macgeordie]

Hi Gents

 

Nice to see there is some interest in the project. It has quite a long way to go but when I am happy with it I will make the kit available to forum members who want one.

 

I got a little bit more done today, not as much as I would have liked as life keeps getting in the way.

 

I got the inner partitions attached to one of the sides.

 

 

and prepared the van ends by fitting the frame which is the base of the corridor connection and also the floor mounting brackets.

 

 

The little brackets which represent the hangers for the corridor connection were assembled and fitted. They are a bit fiddly to do but they are quite prominent on the prototype so they need to be on the model.

 

 

 

I'm hoping to get a lot more done tomorrow, SWMBO is going out with friends so I'll have a bit of peace and quiet for a few hours.

 

Ian

Edited November 27, 2017 by macgeordie

[macgeordie]

I managed to get a lot more done today, the body shell is now assembled and all the hand rails are fitted.

 

 

The door handle are a bit fiddly but look O.K. once they are in place.

 

 

The buffer beam overlays have been fitted.

 

 

and finally the truss bars are in place.

 

 

I'll try to get some more done on the underfloor details tomorrow, but I have a lot to do tomorrow so there won't be a great deal of modelling done.

 

Ian

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Steady on, I already need to live to be 146 to get on top of what you've already produced, half a dozen of these will put me into the 150's!

 

Mike.

[ullypug]

Looks very nice. I'll certainly be interested as and when you make them available.

[jwealleans]

I need to be careful as I know nothing at all about these vehicles, but the Blacksmith etches (which I have fitted to one) also had a rotating switch on the end towards the top, I assumed for electric light. Was that not present on all examples?

[Horsetan]

....when I am happy with it I will make the kit available to forum members who want one....

 

Some may be wanting more than one.....

[chrisf]

I have to say that this way of making an inside framed Siphon is a lot more attractive than the one I chose a while back and unsurprisingly have not completed.  It entails cutting out the Lima planking, which as modelled does not accord with most of the prototypes, and replacing it with Slaters planked plastikard which is correctly spaced.  Other ways of going mad are available. 

 

Chris

[macgeordie]

I need to be careful as I know nothing at all about these vehicles, but the Blacksmith etches (which I have fitted to one) also had a rotating switch on the end towards the top, I assumed for electric light. Was that not present on all examples?

 

I've had a look through all the photos I have and I assume this is what you are referring to:-

 

 

It doesn't seem to be on all of the vans so it is likely it varied from batch to batch. I'm not an expert on GWR stuff but I'm sure there is somebody on the forum who can answer the question. 

I noticed that the vans with the switch also have the jumper cables fitted. I haven't made provision for these yet but I have found they are available as a Comet models item (ref C32) so I might add them to the list of parts for the kit. The switch is easy enough to add so I will modify the drawing to suit.

 

Ian

[cctransuk]

 

Please don't take the following the wrong way.

 

The problem with etched louvres is that they are, inevitably, see-through - which the prototype ones weren't, being angled slats.

 

If I am building a model with etched louvres I invariably back the louvres with a solid sheet. Plastic card is ideal, and can be grooved with a D-shaped blade to represent the sloping slats of the louvres.

 

The ideal solution would be resin-cast louvres with sloping slats.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[macgeordie]

Please don't take the following the wrong way.

 

The problem with etched louvres is that they are, inevitably, see-through - which the prototype ones weren't, being angled slats.

 

If I am building a model with etched louvres I invariably back the louvres with a solid sheet. Plastic card is ideal, and can be grooved with a D-shaped blade to represent the sloping slats of the louvres.

 

The ideal solution would be resin-cast louvres with sloping slats.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

 

 

Hi John

 

I take your point about the louvres but as this is an etched kit, there isn't much choice in how they are produced. I will be providing some black paper which I have printed with the corridor connection bellows and four sections which fold up to sit in the compartments. Once the van is assembled with these in place you can no longer see through the louvres and they look much better.

 

I got the solebar footsteps and vacuum pipe fitted yesterday and assembled the battery boxes and regulator boxes.

 

 

 

I'm hoping to get a bit more done today, but it's club night tonight so there may not be a lot of progress.

 

Ian

[Enterprisingwestern]

 A couple of suggestion on the louvres, ( I know it's your kit and you'll do it so you'll be happy with it!).

 

A seperate fret of folding louvres like Mike Edge does for the diesel radiators.

I pushed the boat out for the cement wagon and had Modelu 3D print the fillers, although for the amount of real estate it takes up on a siphon G, that might get a bit expensive.

 

Mike.

[macgeordie]

 A couple of suggestion on the louvres, ( I know it's your kit and you'll do it so you'll be happy with it!).

 

A seperate fret of folding louvres like Mike Edge does for the diesel radiators.

I pushed the boat out for the cement wagon and had Modelu 3D print the fillers, although for the amount of real estate it takes up on a siphon G, that might get a bit expensive.

 

Mike.

Hi Mike

 

This one is going to be complicated enough without adding folding louvers, there would be dozens to do and apart from that there isn't sufficient space between each one to allow for the extra material needed to form the piece to fold. In 12 thou brass the minimum gap between parts is 0.3mm and that is pretty much what it is now. As you say the 3D printing is an option, but would make the kit far too expensive.

 

Apart from that, today turned into a nightmare. I realised as I came to fit the battery and regulator boxes that I had fitted the solebars to the wrong sides of the floor, so the positions of the vacuum cylinders were wrong. I have now modified the drawing so that the parts can only be fitted to their correct respective sides. That did however mean I had to bodge the fitting of the boxes and cylinders on this one so it doesn't look very pretty. I also added the brake actuator bits to the vac cylinder shafts.

 

 

 

I also fitted the bogie support frames.

 

 

This now means even more changes to the drawings but it has to be right.

 

Ian

[Porcy Mane]

I thinks the lighting switch may only have been fitted to one end. Same end as the Comm Cord butterfly & linkages. Plenty of phots show this blanked off with a square plate/ply.

 

Siphon G by Kevin Lane, on Flickr

 

And then there's this. I've no idea where the phot came from apart from it's on my hard disk. If anyone objects I'll remove it.

 

It shows the Hessian type material that I remember was sometimes stapled to the louvres on the inside. This was the early seventies.

Maybe an identical etch that could be affixed inside  but offset upwards may go someway to creating an illusion of the slats?

 

 

P

Edited November 30, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[Miss Prism]

Ian - I suggest double the thickness of your footboards. 2 x 12 thou is about right for a prototype step of just over 2". If you do the step as a 'foldover', there will also be a reasonable rounded edge on the front.

[The Fatadder]

I thinks the lighting switch may only have been fitted to one end. Same end as the Comm Cord butterfly & linkages. Plenty of phots show this blanked off with a square plate/ply.

 

And then there's this. I've no idea where the phot came from apart from it's on my hard disk. If anyone objects I'll remove it.

 

It shows the Hessian type material that I remember was sometimes stapled to the louvres on the inside. This was the early seventies.

Maybe an identical etch that could be affixed inside but offset upwards may go someway to creating an illusion of the slats?

 

ShuttersUnknown2.jpg

 

P

I was thinking much the same re the double etch, I’m sure I’ve seen that to great effect on a diesel grill before, almost certainly something in Brian Hanson’s extreme etchings range.

 

Love the kit (all be it too modern for me), unless of course the first couple into service made it in the autumn / winter of 47.

[Enterprisingwestern]

I was thinking much the same re the double etch, I’m sure I’ve seen that to great effect on a diesel grill before, almost certainly something in Brian Hanson’s extreme etchings range.

 

Love the kit (all be it too modern for me), unless of course the first couple into service made it in the autumn / winter of 47.

 

Brian's class 20 bonnet side louvres.

 

Mike.

[Porcy Mane]

Brian's class 20 bonnet side louvres.

 

Bliddy He11 man. Summic else to put on my shopping list!

[macgeordie]

Ian - I suggest double the thickness of your footboards. 2 x 12 thou is about right for a prototype step of just over 2". If you do the step as a 'foldover', there will also be a reasonable rounded edge on the front.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, after looking at a number of photos I now see how thick these footboards were. I hadn't realised this until I read your post. I will see if I can do this without having to re-arrange a lot of stuff on the etch. The footboards take up quite a bit of room on the drawing and doing this will almost double the space required.

 

Ian

[Porcy Mane]

The problem with etched louvres is that they are, inevitably, see-through - which the prototype ones weren't, being angled slats.

 

Not strictly true John. If you are perpendicular to the slats with your eyes at the right height, you can see a light light along to top of each slat. This is particularly noticeable if you're inside a syphon and more so if the Zinc mesh/ gauze is missing. Same with the 12t fruit vans. Granted, not that it is as pronounced as looking through a full depth single thickness etch.

 

 

Ian,

 If the bolster washer is part of the etch would it be worth half etching them to leave a raised rib across its diameter. The washers could the be soldered to the frame with the rib lying transversely across the u/f giving the bogies a small amount of pitch freedom without altering ride height.

 

Alternatively they could be mounted 90 degrees to each other so one bogie has a degree of pitch freedom with the other having some roll freedom.

All in the interests of better ride.

 

Pic worth a thousand words and all that.

 

 

A bit of Super glue and this improves the ride on plastic RtR no end.

 

 

Just a matey suggestion...

 

P

 

Edit: Having a look through my photographs of the Syphon at Shildon. It looks like it could have had lighting switches at both ends.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[cctransuk]

Not strictly true John. If you are perpendicular to the slats with your eyes at the right height, you can see a light light along to top of each slat. This is particularly noticeable if you're inside a syphon and more so if the Zinc mesh/ gauze is missing. Same with the 12t fruit vans. Granted, not that it is as pronounced as looking through a full depth single thickness etch.

 

 

 

 

Not strictly .....

 

 

..... but, put perforated zinc behind louvres fitted in those grooves - as it should be if the van is in any sort of condition - and the angle at which you could see daylight from one side of the van to the other would have been miniscule.

 

Louvres should (ideally) exhibit a sloping surface to each slat - more practicably, you should not be able to see daylight through the van!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[57xx]

This looks very very nice. It's outside my modelling era, but some alternate sides without the vents for an O33 or O59 would be perfect...