BR/WR Siphon G diagram O.62 in 4mm scale

[Porcy Mane]

Louvres should (ideally) exhibit a sloping surface to each slat - more practicably, you should not be able to see daylight through the van!

 

As I said John, "more so if the Zinc mesh/ gauze is missing". That would apply to those Syphons that has the Zinc removed to placate the farmers of West Penwith when used on Broccoli traffic.

​I have particular memories of being walked through a couple of these in Ponsandane carriage sidings when I was young. The multiple shafts of laser like, razor sharp light entering one side, illuminating the internal dust and projecting equally razor sharp luminescent  grids onto the opposite side. An effect no doubt exaggerated by light being scattered from the sea just a few yards away.

 

As you say, not ideal to have direct light shining in, particularly if the Syphon was in milk traffic use but as with most things there was theory and actuality.

 

P 

[cctransuk]

As I said John, "more so if the Zinc mesh/ gauze is missing". That would apply to those Syphons that has the Zinc removed to placate the farmers of West Penwith when used on Broccoli traffic.

​I have particular memories of being walked through a couple of these in Ponsandane carriage sidings when I was young. The multiple shafts of laser like, razor sharp light entering one side, illuminating the internal dust and projecting equally razor sharp luminescent  grids onto the opposite side. An effect no doubt exaggerated by light being scattered from the sea just a few yards away.

 

As you say, not ideal to have direct light shining in, particularly if the Syphon was in milk traffic use but as with most things there was theory and actuality.

 

P 

 

I doubt that anyone is going to see the effect of the play of light inside a 4mm. scale SIPHON G - zinc gauze or not!

 

The essential point is that etched louvres, unbacked, do not convey the appearance of the prototype.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Porcy Mane]

I doubt that anyone is going to see the effect of the play of light inside a 4mm. scale SIPHON G - zinc gauze or not!

 

The essential point is that etched louvres, unbacked, do not convey the appearance of the prototype.

 

Ooh dearie me. I feel another yawn coming on.

 

Let's just appreciate Ians artisanship eh.

 

P

[macgeordie]

Now now gents, lets not start throwing dummies out of the pram!!!

 

Here is a photo of the first test build van showing the louvers with the black paper inside the van compartment as mentioned in my post earlier. It looks perfectly O.K. to me and as the vehicles are probably only going to be viewed from at least a couple of feet away at an exhibition I don't think it's a problem. 

 

John, do you cover this set of vans on any of your sheets? the numbers for the first Lot which this is supposed to represent is 1310 to 1339. The decals I used on this van were just some I had in my 'Bits Box' and are not really correct.

 

 

I did a bit of work on the bogies this morning, here are a couple of photos showing how the MJT casting will fit and also the brake shoes in place. I have tried a Hornby and a Romford wheels just to make sure they are O.K. and there is actually little to choose between them as far as the position of the shoes goes.

 

The bogies as built were the 9' pressed steel ones, but some were changed to the 9' American ones later in life. If you want to model that version the footsteps will need to be cut off. I added them to the etch as they are very prominent on the prototype photos I have but don't come as part of the MJT casting which is otherwise (IMHO) by far the best quality casting of the ones available.

 

 

 

Paul, as you can see, the bogies have the pivot surface built in so that one will rock back and forth and the other will rock side to side so you automatically get a bit of compensation built in. It might not be enough for the P4 guys, but they can always fit the MJT etched bogies if they wish. I still model in '00' for my sins, so I have designed it to suit myself although there is provision to put the shoes further out for EM or P4.

 

Ian

[Miss Prism]

Looks good. I like the bogie step method, but shouldn't they 'angle out' a bit more?

 

(Also, brake yokes would benefit from being a skinnier.)

[cctransuk]

 

John, do you cover this set of vans on any of your sheets? the numbers for the first Lot which this is supposed to represent is 1310 to 1339.

 

My Sheet BL159 - see https://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm - covers, as far as I know, all types of SIPHON that ran under BR.

 

Of the number series for O62 to which you refer to, W1312W and W1332W are included - the latter complete with TO RUN BETWEEN PADDINGTON & OXFORD markings as per the prototype.

 

The sheet also includes milk train and sausage van lettering for appropriate diagrams of SIPHON.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

[Jamiel]

These look lovely, thank you for sharing your build. They were really striking vans, with such a lot of detail to interest the modeller.

I have a couple of Lima vans ready to detail, Comet frames and bogies (which I have seen others use) and the Cooper Craft etches, but from my limited experience making a brass kit from scratch gives a much nicer result than bashing about a RTR model, so I would certainly be interested if you make the kit available.

Jamie

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by Jamiel

[Enterprisingwestern]

Going from prototype photo's, as a layout model, that looks fine, the slats, (front bar of the louvres), cover up most of the hole, and the black backing finishes the job off.

In order to give the louvres a bit of 3D relief, would it be possible to leave the bit of brass in between the slats, etch it through on the two sides and along the top, then half etch the top of the slat on the inside and fold the bit back in at a jaunty angle to give the impression of a louvre?

I realise that this is a monumental task with the number of louvres involved, but, having got used to the millions of rivets on the coke hoppers, shouldn't be too onerous a task.

 

Mike.

[macgeordie]

These look lovely, thank you for sharing your build. They were really striking vans, with such a lot of detail to interest the modeller.

 

I have a couple of Lima vans ready to detail, Comet frames and bogies (which I have seen others use) and the Cooper Craft etches, but from my limited experience making a brass kit from scratch gives a much nicer result than bashing about a RTR model, so I would certainly be interested if you make the kit available.

 

Jamie

 

 

 

Hi Jamie, thanks for your kind comments. As I said in an earlier post I will make these available to Forum members who want one. I will probably offer a full kit or just 'etches only' as this is not going to be a cheap kit due to the number of castings required and the fact that there are three sheets of etches. I'm just another modeller, not a business, but I am happy to share my work, however I have to cover the costs or SWMBO gets very upset with me !!!

 

I got the bogies finished today as you can see from the photos below, so it is starting to look more like a Siphon now. I need to do the brake rodding under the floor tomorrow if I have time and then I'll start on the roof. This needs to be rolled but I will provide a pre-rolled roof to anybody purchasing a kit unless they want to do it themselves. In my experience most people prefer it pre-rolled as I did myself until I worked out how to do it without making a 'dogs breakfast' of it.

 

 

 

 

Ian

[iak]

Blimey...

One tasty beastie Ian...

[macgeordie]

I fitted the rest of the brake gear today, this is the adjustment links and the support bar which I believe was basically a big tension spring. I have replicated this by wrapping some 5 amp fuse wire around the 0.7mm support wire. Probably a bit of a waste of time really as it will hardly be seen beneath the van.

 

 

 

 

I have also rolled and fitted the roof. It's not bad, but I'm not 100% happy with the fit so a few more tweaks to the drawing are called for.

Next job is the rain strips. I have added these as part of the etch but really, they can only be fitted with an RSU. I doubt if these could be fitted very easily or cleanly by sweating them into place. The alternative which I used on the first test build is to use 0.45mm wire and there are holes in the roof section to accommodate this. The holes also act as a positional guide for the etched strips.

 

 

 

Ian

[macgeordie]

The rain strips are now in place and I think they look O.K. The shorter ones are easy to fit but the longer one needs a good eye to get the gentle radius looking correct. I'll add a couple more of the small half etched recesses to the roof to act as alignment guides. These strips can only really be fitted using an RSU which is how I fitted these ones. I considered putting half etched slots right along the roof for the strips to sit into but I think that will affect the way the roof would bend when it is rolled so I changed my mind and left it the way it is now.

 

 

This is the roof of the first test build which uses 0.45mm wire instead of the etched parts. The strips look O.K. from a foot or two away and can be fitted easily with a normal soldering iron.

 

 

I have also added the body corner straps which fit just under the roof line. I have fitted these with the RSU but they can also be glued in place.

 

 

The corridor connector outer plates have been prepared as well. I have used 0.9mm wire on this one although 0.7mm was the intended size however I made a mistake on the drawing and forgot to put in the 'fill' so what should have been a 'half etch' on the inside became the hole which can be seen on the left hand piece. I have amended the drawing to rectify this.

 

 

I'll probably make up the corridor connector bellows next but I also still have the buffers to fit. These are sprung ones from MJT and have cast bodies so I will be glueing these in place. I'm not very good at soldering small pieces of white metal, they have a nasty habit of turning into a molten blob !!!

 

Ian

 

 

 

[macgeordie]

The buffers are now in place. I glued them initially with Evo-Stik impact then when it was fully set I added some 5 minute Epoxy to the back of the buffer beam to strengthen the joint. Once the buffers were inserted I added a small washer held in place with a drop of glue to stop them coming out. For some reason MJT don't supply a washer with the buffers so I have added one to the etch.

 

 

The bellows are now made. I have fitted this one temporarily just to show it in place. It will be removed for painting then re-fitted. I will supply the printed sheet to make these bellows up, it is just the well know folded paper version but I have used 80gsm paper and there are two sets of bellows per connector. This gives plenty of flexibility and also more folds to the bellows which in my opinion looks a lot more realistic. 

 

 

Just a few more little bits to tidy up and this one is finished. I'll order another set of test etches shortly.

 

Ian

[jwealleans]

The idea with the buffers is that you bend the tail both to keep them in place and set the stroke length.

 

Nice build, shame I still have my Lima/Blacksmith one.

[macgeordie]

The idea with the buffers is that you bend the tail both to keep them in place and set the stroke length.

 

Nice build, shame I still have my Lima/Blacksmith one.

Hi Jonathan

 

I've tried that in the past and nearly always snapped the shaft which is why I used this method. I think MJT must have supplied the washers at some time in the past as it says on their website the washers are no longer included.

 

Ian

[iak]

Strewth...

Your creative muse has worked in overdrive with this one Ian.

[Porcy Mane]

I've tried that in the past and nearly always snapped the shaft which is why I used this method.

A bit of electrical insulation of the right size along with a bit of spit does it for me. You can then remove the buffer and spring without damage should the need arise.

 

 

P

[macgeordie]

That's a good idea Paul, I'll add that as an alternative method in the instructions.

 

Ian

[Porcy Mane]

 

Not my idea Ian. I read about it somewhere or saw someone demoing it at and exhibition.

 

I have some bits of brass strip about 1.5 mm wide bent into a U shape to fit over 1 mm and 2.5 mm buffer shanks. They temporarily slip over the shank between the back of the buffer head and the main body to act as a depth gauge keeping the free sprung length constant whilst pushing on the insulation. It works just as well if you're bending the tail over to retain the buffer.

 

(Thought of that one mesen)

 

P

[Axlebox]

A bit of electrical insulation of the right size along with a bit of spit does it for me. You can then remove the buffer and spring without damage should the need arise.

 

 

P

The slightest dash of superglue on far end of the insulation will fix it in place...and you can still cut and peel it off with a scalpel should you need to...beware of the capilary action if you use too much glue (been there and learned that one the hard way)...

[Mark Hamlin]

The buffers are now in place. I glued them initially with Evo-Stik impact then when it was fully set I added some 5 minute Epoxy to the back of the buffer beam to strengthen the joint. Once the buffers were inserted I added a small washer held in place with a drop of glue to stop them coming out. For some reason MJT don't supply a washer with the buffers so I have added one to the etch.

 

_MG_3251b.jpg

 

The bellows are now made. I have fitted this one temporarily just to show it in place. It will be removed for painting then re-fitted. I will supply the printed sheet to make these bellows up, it is just the well know folded paper version but I have used 80gsm paper and there are two sets of bellows per connector. This gives plenty of flexibility and also more folds to the bellows which in my opinion looks a lot more realistic. 

 

_MG_3247b.jpg

 

Just a few more little bits to tidy up and this one is finished. I'll order another set of test etches shortly.

 

Ian

Love it, count me in for one

[Andy M]

Ian,

 

I have very much enjoyed following your test build and would certainly be interested in a kit (or two) should you make them available. Cracking stuff!

 

Regards, 

 

Andy.

[timbowilts]

Ian, in one of your posts you mention that you have mastered the art of rolling your own gwr roofs. Please share your method for cowards such as myself who fail every attempt.

 

TIA, Tim T

[57xx]

Looking forward to seeing this test build finished. (then you can crack on with some plain sides for earlier versions )

[macgeordie]

The way things have been going, as soon as I do, one of the rtr companies will announce that they are going to produce them!!!

 

Ian