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Current Models Available in the Market Place today





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#1 charliepetty

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 13:14

In our Ongoing project to bring High Quality models to you the customer, we have a Question!

 

What model 'Diesel Locomotive' which is on the market and available today in the UK, do you think could do with 'Replacing' ?

 

With:

 

Multi Functional DCC Lighting Features (Marker Lights/Cab/Engine Room)

 

SuperSound DCC Speaker System  (Not Hi End Sugarqubes/ I Phone Speakers)

 

DCC Diesel Smoke System

 

As the future is DCC but not as we no it today!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Charlie & Arran

 

PPS  We hve some ideas, WHAT are yours and what innovations would you like to see?????


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#2 HillsideDepot

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 13:37

OK, I guess someone has to go first...

 

Brush 4/Class 47

 

None of the existing models quite capture the common old "Duff", to my eyes. Each has something which jars.

 

DCC smoke might be a challenge, replicating the initial vertical column of black smoke, but also having the "over the shoulder" exhaust at higher speeds, but what do I know? Oh, and memories of that vertical column of exhaust are inextricably linked to the Serk shutters opening - would that be possible, or is that asking too much? They're relatively fine, and in an awkward place to make operable, I'd guess.

Engine room lighting - yes, I think you can see a bulb through at least one of the engine room windows, and the pipework which runs across some of the windows would also be a feature.

 

I'd want the earlier style with headcodes and buffer beam skirts, but I'm sure others would prefer plated ends (various!) and "Crewe cut" mods. 


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#3 cs233

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 13:52

The current Bachmann offering may be less than 10 years of age but I would say we could do with a new Class 150 model, the Bachmann tooling does not allow original types to be created correctly, no centre door with window on the 150\2, the 150\1 has an incorrect underframe and no lower valance as the units were built. The amount of livery options is for sure going to provide a significant return on the tooling costs and it compliments Realtracks current DMU range well.

 

 

 

 


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#4 DRS Crewe On A Mission

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 14:25

New tooled Class 37s. 

 

37/6s with new noses, directional lights, top headlights, cab lights. 

 

I have had the idea of the following twin packs. 

 

37606 & 37609 in DRS Compass livery

37608 & 37611 in Europhoenix livery

37607 & 37612 in Colas Rail livery (when they are repainted in reality)

 

37423 in the new DRS Basic livery would be really nice too as a single model. 

37038/059/069/218 any of those in the Revised DRS livery would be good. 

 

I agree with the idea of 150s. Original Purple Northern livery, purple Northern livery but debranded and the new Northern Rail white livery would be good. Different models could be produced some with the doors at the end and some without the doors at the ends. 


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#5 87023Velocity

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 14:34

Hmm,

 

Class 45? Including the sealed beam nose ends which I think have only been produced for Modelzone.

 

Cheers

 

Simon


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#6 woodenhead

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 14:43

Nobody say Class 24!!!  :jester:

 

Why are you proposing to duplicate a model already available with some extra whistles and bells (well horns and smoke) when there are lots of first generation DMUs you could go at which will benefit from added fumes and as they don't exist in the market you'll not be trying to get people to replace what they already have.


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#7 34theletterbetweenB&D

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 14:57

Class 55. Existing model is easily the weakest of the larger BR and on diesel classes, and as a canvas for sound and smoke effects has more potential than any two other diesel loco subjects.


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#8 The Black Hat

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 16:13

As much as I might regret saying this:

 

Class 66.

 

Yes the Bachmann model is good, yes it does have lighting, but its not the same compared to the Dapol class 68 or the features that could be done on a new model. Problem is that the Bachmann one does hold up well considering its age and tooling. Would there be enough demand to replace them all? I'm not sure, as it would soon flood the market with second hand Bachmann ones.

 

Other ideas:

 

Class 170

Class 220/221/222

Class 185

 

Class 55 - including some with headlight.

Class 58

 

As for innovations - the problem is that a lot of the new released models do hold up well alongside each other. I'm not sure youd need or want DCC smoke, when lights and sound looks good. Smoke often looks less authentic so is easier to leave to the imagination. The main areas I would go for would be lighting controls all done via DCC, like the 68. That way you can change the lighting pending on what shunt manoeuvre your doing, or whether the engine is parked up with lights on both ends. Personally, I think this should have been seen from the outset with DCC and planned accordingly.


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#9 BR Blue

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 17:10

The Hornby 31 could be improved as could the 50.

The Bachmann 25 could be better but we all know who is going to do that.

The Woodhead electrics and the Heljan 86 are all flawed but there is less demand probably.

Edited by BR Blue, 28 November 2017 - 16:12 .


#10 31A

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 17:30

Another vote for Class 55 Deltic - the Bachmann one is somewhat dated now, and has never really 'cut it' for me.

 

Not bothered personally about sound / lights / smoke / bells & whistles; just an accurate representation with a sound mechanism would suffice for me.


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#11 wombatofludham

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 18:40

If it has to be a diesel I too would go Class 47, with 45 in second place.  The 47 has enough variety to keep you active for probably half a century, was as common as a very common thing, is still clinging onto life, had more livery variations than anything else on rails and an all-singing, all-dancing model would offer real choice for modellers to make it worthwhile. Nationwide use on just about every kind of traffic imaginable would mean only the most rabid kettleistas couldn't find a space for one.  Whilst there are some nice 47 models out there, the spec you are suggesting would be an attractive package and I would venture to suggest that with Heljan's tubby Duff off the market, and Hornby's Limby 47 aimed at the Railroad market, you'd only be up against Bachmann for a share of sales of a prolific type, and I suspect the market would stand the competition.

 

The 45 is probably more niche but again Bachmann have dropped the ball with the sealed beam variants and they were seen over a wide area.

 

Of course my preference would be for an AL6/Class 86, the Class 47 of the electrics.  I do suspect Hornby might be about to surprise us in that direction though.  So I doubt you would go wrong with a Duff.



#12 srihaggis

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 19:07

There's not really much which in my opinion would be viable for new tooling.

Loco wise I think a lot has been covered in some form of high end detail, but ther3 are still a few classes yet to be modelled, at all. Class 41 for example.

DMU wise the 170, 153/155,220/221 & 158 would tick boxes for a revamp, then other new classes yet to be modelled e.g. 171,172, 222, 180


Edited by srihaggis, 27 November 2017 - 21:42 .

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#13 Fluo66

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 20:16

A class 20 with working lights.

Or something newer that no-one built before: a class 180 or 185 would be very nice.

#14 Echo

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 20:22

Class 04 with all the window/skirt variations


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#15 Downer

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 20:23

Class 04 with all the window/skirt variations

 

 

Seconded.

 

And maybe a bit niche, but how about a Class 11.


Edited by Downer, 27 November 2017 - 20:24 .

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#16 big jim

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 20:27

diverging slightly away from diesel traction, a sparkly new class 91 would be nice, think of those fans on dcc sound
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#17 ColinK

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 20:47

I know its been said before that they would be too expensive to produce due to each coach being different, but I still think there is a market for the TransPennine and Cross Country dmus. While they might be expensive, they are needed for 1970’s layouts, and I think people will pay. Presumably models like the 4TC have been a success.

If you want some inspiration watch this,



Most of the current diesel loco models are fairly good, so would a new version be profitable. Sound is important for me, but not really after things like smoke which would get complains from SHMBO over dirtying the ceiling.

See you in Manchester on Saturday.
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#18 NXEA!

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 20:53

I think they're fine personally but the Heljan 33's were widely criticised when they were released, and a manufacturer did propose to make a new one recently IIRC. If you're ever thinking of something AC, a retooled 86 would go down well I think.


Edited by NXEA!, 27 November 2017 - 20:53 .

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#19 55020

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 21:10

As a modeller firmly stuck in the 70s and 80s, I would have to go with a 45/46 simply because there is a gaping hole in the market because the sealed beam hasn't been widely available to date.  I personally prefer the 'old school' nose configurations, but from a market perspective this must offer the best opportunity for volume sales.

 

My very close second vote would be for a totally accurate production Deltic, mainly because the spec being discussed would lend itself totally to the Class 55s i.e. great sound & diesel smoke

 

Finally, it's hard not to recognise that a Class 47 wouldn't be an attractive commercial proposition, although it would have to be to a higher (more accurate) standard than the Bachmann offering.

 

37s, 40s, 20s would also have me reaching for my credit card.  Perhaps the 20 being ripe for an "upgrade", with the Bachmann offering being so out of date.

 

Charlie specifically asked for a diesel loco, so anyone mentioning electrics should be shown a red card :-)



#20 YesTor

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 02:46

Another vote here for Class 66... 

 

Okay, the Bachmann model is the correct general shape and captures the overall look reasonably well, however there are many shortfalls.  To start with the general detail is woefully lacking, particularly below the solebar/underframe and fuel tank areas - key areas for a machine where the emphasis is on the solebar due to the cutaway design of the prototype.  The body isn't the sharpest of mouldings, with much detail looking a tad 'rounded', particularly around the cantrail area and even the bodyside ribbing, whereby current standards all of this should indeed be quite 'crisp',

 

The bogies aren't great either - firstly in terms of capturing the weighty look that bogies should have; and secondly, most models I have ever bought suffer from the body slumping clumsily directly onto the bogie frames (usually more at one end than the other), leaving you with a drunken looking and often wobbly-running model.

 

There is something about the general look too, in that the Bachmann 66 somehow doesn't look like a weighty piece of kit sitting on the track (unlike for example the Hornby Class 60, which scores highly in this respect).  Maybe it's a combination of fairly poorly represented bogies, the somewhat sparse underframe and the way the model generally sits? 

 

On a positive note however, the best part of the Bachmann model is in my opinion the cab, which really does look very good, and is if anything what perhaps carries the model by distracting from the other more inadequate areas of detail.

 

Interestingly, being of similar outward design I had high hopes for Dapol's 59, however it does look as though Dapol have indeed lifted many ideas from Bachmann's 66 and as I see it have failed to again capture that important 'weighty' look that any locomotive should have, not to mention somewhat insipid looking bogies to match.

 

As for features, well, I'm not sure what could be added in addition to your suggestions of more complex light sequences and top-notch sound.  I'm not overly convinced that a 'diesel smoke system' would be all that convincing, and to be honest isn't something I have ever craved in a model, however I am always prepared to be pleasantly surprised!  In short, something produced to the same level as your Class 156 would be truly amazing, in terms of lighting, sound, detail etc etc...

 

Lastly, other points in favour of producing a new Class 66 are that this locomotive type (love 'em or hate them), is as we all know the most common piece of kit on the current network, and has been for the last 20 years, and may well be for the next 20 years, in one form or another.  Already there are a crazy amount of livery variations, and I'm sure there will be many more before their time is up.  If any prototype would stand up to more than one manufacturer producing a model then it must surely be the 66, after all you only have to look at how Bachmann keep on churning out version after version of what is now, in my honest opinion, a very tired representation of the prototype.


Edited by YesTor, 28 November 2017 - 16:09 .

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#21 Duple

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 07:48

I would put a firm vote in the 66 camp, however the ESU model ticks the majority of the above required boxes and therefore probably rules it out as viable venture. Just needs someone to commission it over here I imagine !

 

I think there is probably room for a bells and whistles class 56 as well. The newer Hornby model is OK but the chunky wheels fitted and dodgy lighting set up almost ruin the nice overall shape. Certainly a few liveries to go at too.

 

There certainly does seem to be a void of a decent 45/46. A friend brought round a Bachmann model and the tooling was certainly showing its age.



#22 Enterprisingwestern

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 08:32

A Peak is probably the oldest moulding still doing the rounds which has variation potential for a manufacturer, and could be improved considerably. There are many dimensional inaccuracies on the existing models which need to be overcome, and flush glazing and a few etches here and there would be attractive.

 

Mike.


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#23 34theletterbetweenB&D

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:59

The negative information in this thread is interesting. Clearly all the models of DH types are completely satisfactory.



#24 georgeds

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 10:21

I think a 170 has the most flexibility. 158 would be good but with the Bachmann variant on the way (one day) it doesn't make sense.

 

All the loco types mention have to my mind good enough versions already available. The 66 for example, I already have a good few Bachmann models which I don't want to obsolete.



#25 The Black Hat

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 14:31

Echoing a lot of what Yes Tor has said about class 66.

 

It really stands out as the one to be made - that or the Deltic or 20. But I think the 66 does beat its oppositon. The problem would be how much a new 66 would cost to be delivered. While the Bachmann one has been good for its time, it doesnt have a lot of the features other things needed compared with other engines on the market. A lot of this is the way that lights need to be controllowed to offer all workings as has been said. However, would the price difference force people to upgrade.

 

I know I have rather a lot of class 66 from Bachmann and am overall happy with the product that they offer. Would the difference be that great between the two models that it forces the sale of the old and upgrading to a Realtrack 66, or would this be easier with something that doesnt have things like lights or all the details like a 20 or 55.

 

Again, Yes Tor picks up off issues I have mentioned the 66 has many liveries and areas that would make it a model that would sell loads of, especially with a future that will see it around for years to come.

 

I have no doubt that you would make a stunning 66 model but question just how many people might go for it given that there is a fair model of the 66 already available, prices for models are rising. Unlike the 66, the Dapol 68 had no prior model of this new class which I think partly explains why it was so popular. Its harder to see how a product would need replacement in RTR diesel when some of the recent engines for popular types remain fairly good overall, but this question will soon arise as popular locomotive types are covered and thus one will get retooled eventually which will probably change the standards the market has.


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