OO gauge Crowdfunded APT-P (Warley announcement)

[Colin_McLeod]

He could always open a bank account.

[mikeharvey22]

He could always open a bank account.

Forgot to say he is 92 and blind. Stopped being able to manage a bank account five years ago, but still wants to pay his way.

[DJM Dave]

Hi everyone,

 

At last some progress.

 

I am told by the laser scanning guys that i should have a lot more from them this week, so please keep a look out.

 

The new e-commerce part of my revamped web site should also be up and running later this week as well.

This means i will be refunding all who have paid there deposit, and asking you to transfer your payment via Lloyds Click safe via a special link to take you to the non RRP priced APT page where you can re-submit your order, and / or change your requirements and pay your first payment.

 

To do so you will need to input your order number and this will, to stop others trying to gain an advantage from purchasing this way. Your original order number (not your paypal number) will be checked against the database and our data base altered accordingly should there be any order changes from you.

 

Thanks for bearing with me in this but i think this new system is for the best and the re-vamped web site is easier and more informative / easier to navigate. I'll be adding more content to it over the coming weeks.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Colin_McLeod]

I am currently preparing my shed for the model railway which is currently in storage following a house move.

 

At 23ft x 20ft I will have a lot of main line but I had to consider how I was going to fit a 14 coach APT-P into my terminus that has 8ft platforms.

 

My solution is to break a hole in the wall leading to a utility area next to the shed. This will provide a hidden extra six feet or so to two platforms.

 

Today I made the hole in the block wall.

 

 

 

 

[Robert Shrives]

Now that is "future proofing" the project. Here is hoping that all eventually goes well with this project in 4 and 2mm scales. 

 

Robert 

[dogbox321]

Hi everyone,

 

At last some progress.

 

I am told by the laser scanning guys that i should have a lot more from them this week, so please keep a look out.

 

The new e-commerce part of my revamped web site should also be up and running later this week as well.

This means i will be refunding all who have paid there deposit, and asking you to transfer your payment via Lloyds Click safe via a special link to take you to the non RRP priced APT page where you can re-submit your order, and / or change your requirements and pay your first payment.

 

To do so you will need to input your order number and this will, to stop others trying to gain an advantage from purchasing this way. Your original order number (not your paypal number) will be checked against the database and our data base altered accordingly should there be any order changes from you.

 

Thanks for bearing with me in this but i think this new system is for the best and the re-vamped web site is easier and more informative / easier to navigate. I'll be adding more content to it over the coming weeks.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

              Glad you are sorting your website/invoicing out, but regarding refunding and re-placing orders how is that going to work.  For example - I paid via a Credit Card using paypal.  If that gets refunded - does that just go onto pay pal, and then I somehow have to re-credit it to the card?  And then when its credited back to the card, do we then need to spend that amount to get the APT Money effectively back?  

 

Does Lloyds click-safe allow the use of creditcards, without classing it as a cash transaction?

 

Just asking because for some of us it may take months to get the money back to ourselves in the first place, if what I have outlined may be the case - ultimately it may take people a while to get the money back to you, as £200+ is hardly small change.  

 

Best Regards,

 

C.

[DavidH]

Hi Dave,

              Glad you are sorting your website/invoicing out, but regarding refunding and re-placing orders how is that going to work.  For example - I paid via a Credit Card using paypal.  If that gets refunded - does that just go onto pay pal, and then I somehow have to re-credit it to the card?  And then when its credited back to the card, do we then need to spend that amount to get the APT Money effectively back?  

 

Does Lloyds click-safe allow the use of creditcards, without classing it as a cash transaction?

 

Just asking because for some of us it may take months to get the money back to ourselves in the first place, if what I have outlined may be the case - ultimately it may take people a while to get the money back to you, as £200+ is hardly small change.  

 

Best Regards,

 

C.

PayPal has information about refunds:

https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/I-want-a-refund.-How-do-refunds-work-FAQ3248

 

ClickSafe is just a system that gives card protection while shopping online. Any card. (But I don't understand what you mean by classifying as a cash transaction. Dave's system will presumably work like any other online shop.)

https://www.lloydsbank.com/credit-cards/clicksafe.asp

Edited July 11, 2018 by DavidH

[PaulCheffus]

Hi Dave,

              Glad you are sorting your website/invoicing out, but regarding refunding and re-placing orders how is that going to work.  For example - I paid via a Credit Card using paypal.  If that gets refunded - does that just go onto pay pal, and then I somehow have to re-credit it to the card?  And then when its credited back to the card, do we then need to spend that amount to get the APT Money effectively back?  

 

Does Lloyds click-safe allow the use of creditcards, without classing it as a cash transaction?

 

Just asking because for some of us it may take months to get the money back to ourselves in the first place, if what I have outlined may be the case - ultimately it may take people a while to get the money back to you, as £200+ is hardly small change.  

 

Best Regards,

 

C.

Hi

 

Whenever I have had a refund from Paypal its been refunded back to the card I used to pay without any manual involvement from me.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[ac1874]

Hi

 

Whenever I have had a refund from Paypal its been refunded back to the card I used to pay without any manual involvement from me.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Same for me whenever I have been refunded.

[adb968008]

From personal experience, PayPal refunds can take time.

 

I’ve had a refund that was “pending” for 10 days once..then when it finally passed PayPal, it then took a further 5 days to show up on my credit card statement, which rolled over from one month to the next, meaning a higher total statement that month being issued than was expected, with a credit showing on the next month.

 

Similarly on another occasion, the refund went to PayPal and sat on PayPal’s account, it didn’t go back to the card, (complicated set up reasons).

 

In short the message is:

if your tight for funds, double check the money is where it is expected to be first !

Edited July 11, 2018 by adb968008

[Colin_McLeod]

Don't forget that if money refunded to your credit card makes your card balance positive, then if you withdraw that positive balance some cards treat that as a cash advance and charge the cash advance fee.

 

My suggestion is to use any positive credit card balance to pay DJM using their new on line payment system thus incurring no fees at all.

[7APT7]

Hi Dave,

              Glad you are sorting your website/invoicing out, but regarding refunding and re-placing orders how is that going to work.  For example - I paid via a Credit Card using paypal.  If that gets refunded - does that just go onto pay pal, and then I somehow have to re-credit it to the card?  And then when its credited back to the card, do we then need to spend that amount to get the APT Money effectively back?  

 

Does Lloyds click-safe allow the use of creditcards, without classing it as a cash transaction?

 

Just asking because for some of us it may take months to get the money back to ourselves in the first place, if what I have outlined may be the case - ultimately it may take people a while to get the money back to you, as £200+ is hardly small change.  

 

Best Regards,

 

C.

 

 

Hi DavidH 

 

Yes I'm in the same boat even though its a train I'm getting at the end.

It should just refund back to the Credit Card that you have already pre-setup in your PayPal Account... (I'm sure that's what will happen),

 

or

 

It may just refund it back to PayPal Account (I'm hoping this more so, but I don't think it will) then I can just transfer the Refunded Money from my PayPal account to my designated back account tied to my PayPal Account, then I would have the Credit Card Money sitting in my designated back account, to which I can just pay DJM Dave his Invoice! Jobs a Good'en as they say! But I do think from past refunds when I have used my Credit Card in PayPal for eBay purchases etc, it will refund my Credit Card back directly.

 

Which then raises a question DJM Dave...

When you resend new invoices out, will I be given the option to still pay via a/my Credit Card....? via entering Credit Card details etc from whatever means you use for us to make the payment, as Click Safe is just a safe way to pay with Lloyds Bank (Which every customer of Lloyds Bank as, I know I have, and I'm with Lloyds Bank to) it does not give me access to pay through Click Safe apart from checks all is legit from what ever source you choice to pay by, whether another Bank using your Bank Card or some other Credit Card etc...! well that's how I saw it to be, and Click Safe only ever popped up for my first transaction and I never see the Click Safe Box pop up anymore.

 

I would still want the option to pay via Credit Card as I don't want to lower my order come what may.

 

Look forward to hearing from you soon buddy.

 

Regards

Jamie

[njee20]

PayPal refunds go onto the original card, otherwise there would be massive money laundering implications. I’ve also had them be held for a week though, which is frustrating.

[7APT7]

PayPal refunds go onto the original card, otherwise there would be massive money laundering implications. I’ve also had them be held for a week though, which is frustrating.

 

Hi njee20

 

Yes, I thought that was the case.

 

And like all Cards, quick to take your money but slow to refund... I understand your frustration.

 

Regards

Jamie

[njee20]

To be fair it's not your card provider, although the refund can take another couple of days to show up - to be fair that's the same with purchases. Any additional delay is PayPal's end - certainly was with me recently. They were quite up front that my refund was pending for 7 days (IIRC), but no clarity on why!

 

Still, that's not Dave's fault, I imagine they've got their reasons, probably again under the auspices of anti-money laundering. 

[Mr_Tilt]

 

To be fair it's not your card provider, although the refund can take another couple of days to show up - to be fair that's the same with purchases. Any additional delay is PayPal's end - certainly was with me recently. They were quite up front that my refund was pending for 7 days (IIRC), but no clarity on why!

 

 

Like all financial institutions it's because they want to hang on to YOUR money as long as possible so that it earns interest while it's in THEIR account. I'm sure they'd make up all sorts of excuses if really pressed for a reason, but that's why they're REALLY hanging on to it.

 

Me cynical? You bet I am!

[njee20]

Whilst I'm sure there's an element of investment income from interest it's obviously not PayPal's primary source of income (that being transaction fees), and I'm not sure it really holds here because PayPal don't have your money, it's been transferred to another party and is then going back, it's effectively just another transaction, simply the reverse of a pre-existing one.

[Pete the Elaner]

Like all financial institutions it's because they want to hang on to YOUR money as long as possible so that it earns interest while it's in THEIR account. I'm sure they'd make up all sorts of excuses if really pressed for a reason, but that's why they're REALLY hanging on to it.

 

Me cynical? You bet I am!

A friend of mine once referred to this as "the interest free cybervault" 

[7APT7]

Like all financial institutions it's because they want to hang on to YOUR money as long as possible so that it earns interest while it's in THEIR account. I'm sure they'd make up all sorts of excuses if really pressed for a reason, but that's why they're REALLY hanging on to it.

 

Me cynical? You bet I am!

 

Yes I'm always cynical to...

 

Is it not like a Cheque and some many clearance business days, I presuming it comes under that umbrella and like you say for them to gain more interest before releasing the money etc...

 

Regards

Jamie

[ac1874]

Hi Dave,

 

Any more from the scanning company?

 

Cheers

Andy

[DJM Dave]

Hi Dave,

Any more from the scanning company?

Cheers

Andy

just been told i should have something tangible for the end of this week.

if thats the case, and i get the cloud to China soon, i'm hoping to get some Step files so i can get some models in OO and N gauge (by reducing the OO cad/cam to N gauge) done in 3D.

 

Will let know know when i do.

cheers

Dave

[ac1874]

Looking forward to it, will await your next update.

[adb968008]

To be fair it's not your card provider, although the refund can take another couple of days to show up - to be fair that's the same with purchases. Any additional delay is PayPal's end - certainly was with me recently. They were quite up front that my refund was pending for 7 days (IIRC), but no clarity on why!

 

Still, that's not Dave's fault, I imagine they've got their reasons, probably again under the auspices of anti-money laundering.

 

Format of a swift transfer is a common text file by ftp.., file name is the initiating transaction reference.

 

The file is created, and stored in a folder for transmission or sweeping, it can just be once a day.

it’s processed at a central authority as a electronic packet and directed to the appropriate recipient institution, In the same manner, again it can be as slow as once a day.

Followed by a return packet confirming the transaction.

 

The file itself is only 12 lines, line include payee reference, swift/IBAN, currency and amount, central bank / account and 4 lines of sending customer address, 1 line of recipient name, and a line relating to charge (who is paying the transfer fees).

 

It’s slow and inefficient, but it works.

 

People think it’s about the interest, it’s actually not, it’s just a system which is as slow as sending signed for letters in the mail service, because that’s how it was designed decades ago, which was based on cheques,., which were sent in the mail. It’s actually worse.. to guarantee delivery, not just 1 message is sent, but several duplicate packets are sent, via different network paths, once the first is processed the others are discarded / expire.

 

Immediate payment is much the same, just follows a “courier” style priority service but avoids the clearing house and routes direct to the recipient institutions central authority... more like email, less like Royal Mail.

 

The revolution can be in block chain technology, rather than central clearing servers, acting as postmen, transactions can be done in block ledgers, which can confirm the transactions without the back and forth taking days. This is more akin to virtual central banks shifting virtual gold between each virtual customers wallets and publishing it in a transaction ledger.

Edited July 18, 2018 by adb968008

[njee20]

But some PayPal refunds are instant, others are held for a period before being released (often 7 days) and it’s not simply a delay in posting the transaction.

 

SWIFT payments are for international transactions, and aren’t how PayPal transfer payments.

[adb968008]

But some PayPal refunds are instant, others are held for a period before being released (often 7 days) and it’s not simply a delay in posting the transaction.

SWIFT payments are for international transactions, and aren’t how PayPal transfer payments.

PayPal isn’t a clearing house, it’s like a any other commercial retailer..

If they take money, they have to ensure they actually have it, before they pass it on.

Credit cards/ cash balances are easy immediate transactions... they have either the cash or an approval from a credit card to process it.

 

Whilst they can direct debit from your account, they can’t see what’s in your account, so if they request funds from your branch, and your branch debits your account.. imagine your money in an envelope traveling to a clearing house who opens it, finds PayPal’s bank details and sends it on there...

 

if it’s cash coming from someone’s account... they need to follow the principle of someone writing a cheque payable to PayPal who need to await clearance of those funds but then pay the recipient from those funds... that’s what takes time.

You can speed it up though... if you go into your PayPal account, follow your debit card process and preload your PayPal account, it’s immediate as it’s like a retail sale, with the balance in Your PayPal account.

 

If you want to see the technical nuts and bolts of how money is transferred there’s a lot of info here (it’s used by IT developers to automatically load in bulk payments to a banking system, cutting out the manual /over the counter methods).

https://www.business.rbs.co.uk/content/dam/rbs_co_uk/Business_and_Content/PDFs/RBS_Bankline_import_file_layout_guide_SWIFT_MT103_format.pdf

Page 24 will show you a sample payment file, it’s pretty much the same all across Europe, I worked on a project along the lines of this for a Hungarian bank 10 years ago.

 

Hope the explanation helps I tried to make it simple English as possible, but it’s got little to do with an APT.

Edited July 18, 2018 by adb968008