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Small layout for a film, shooting early 2018. Now finished - 'thank you' for help given.


Jamiel
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Hi

A bit of an unusual topic, but I would really appreciate any advice.

For a film shooting in Yorkshire during February and March 2018, we require a small loop layout/train-set, about 5ft by 3ft. The film is set in the 1980's and the boy in the family has a small train set which he has spent some time on, but is nothing like the standard of a exhibition layout. We do not want historically accurate 1980's (vintage!) models, just something that looks the part on camera and can run loops. For reference the atmosphere of the film is 'Close Encounters' and 'Stranger Things'.

The director has asked me to look into this as he knows I have a layout myself. I model UK 1950's - 70's and have realised I know next to nothing about USA models, other than gauge.

If there is a small demonstration layout one of the manufacturers has that can be rented that would be really good, but otherwise I would be happy to build the layout myself. It is not a historical recreation, but a boys train set. Steam trains look good on camera, so that would be preferable to diesel.

So here is a rough breakdown of the requirements.

DC operation, one round loop, possibly a small siding or two - think a set for Christmas.

 

1. Steam loco (not too big, so it can run on a small layout), something like ...

prod_38672.jpg

Probably a spare loco which will be unopened, and sold/returned afterwards. It is always best to have spares of mechanical equipment just in case of failure or mishap. I briefly spoke to one retiler bout this, and if returned within 2 week unopened there is no porblem refunding for the spare loco.

A couple of coaches.

About 4 freight wagons.

Some buildings, station halt, people, tress, general decoration.

I have steered the director away from exhibition layouts as they are not right for the film, they are not a child's train-set, and also film sets are full of equipment and people handling things, including the layout. A model that someone has spent years perfecting is far too precious and also wrong for the story.

Possibly the most likely option is for us to buy the parts new, me build a simple layout, and possibly sell of the stock afterwards, but if something already exists that we could use that would be great. If we do go down the route of building this, then if anyone has their eye on a loco or stock that they would like to buy off the production after we have finished film that might be a possibility for us to pursue.

Recommendations of stockists of US steam locos and gear would be welcomed. I did look at the American Railroad Centre's website in Bodmin, but they don't seem to stock steam locos. Kernow Model Centre and Rail of Sheffield seem like possible suppliers, but if there are others please let me know.

I will be grateful for any help with this.

Jamie

 

Edited by Jamiel
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Suppliers I've bought from are Model Junction (Slough), their website is modeljunction.info and Invicta models in Sidcup. I've not been in the market for a train set though, so I don't know if they do those from stock. Model junction offer a service importing stuff from the Walthers catalogue - others probably do too, but I've no experience beyond MJ and ordering directly from the US myself.

 

If you want more cheap(ish) freight cars etc then eBay would be my suggestion.

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Thanks for that Zomboid.

I've had a look at  the shops, it does seem that the US import market is very Diesel biased. I think we will look for a new loco, and possibly a duplicate for safety.

Ebay is a very good suggestion for the rolling stock behind the loco.

From what I have seen on the web so far, it does look like Kernow and Rails seem to have the best USA HO Steam selections, and I don't want to import a specific model, as there is the possibility we may get a spare for during the shoot.

Jamie

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Thanks Ray.

I never knew about that shop at all. I only cycle past it twice a day, but looking at Google maps I am always trying to beat the traffic light at the bar, it takes ages to change. I also have to dodge the bend buses there.

I didn't know there was any other model rail shop in York other than the Monk Bar Model Shop. I knew two others as a boy, Precious and the one at the end of Stonegate, both of which are long gone.

I will pop in there on the way to work tomorrow morning.

Thank you so much for letting me know about the shop.

Jamie

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Jamie,

 

I'm still in Bubwith and have some knowledge of US modelling having built 4 US exhibition layouts. Plus ERFG (the gang I belong to) have a history of building layouts for Bachmann.

 

What is your timetable on this?

 

Get in touch if you think we can help.

 

steve

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We do not want historically accurate 1980's (vintage!) models, just something that looks the part on camera

You know the programme will get slaughtered by 'those who know' for that sort of thing!! :nono: :sarcastichand:

 

Is the train planned to 'crash', like in Close Encounters?

 

Seriously though, I suggest Bachmann models for this layout. Basic to withstand lots of handling, & cheaper 'pocket money' prices a young lad could realisticly afford then.

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Thank you for all the replies.

 

I will contact Bachmann and see if they have a demo layout. On a TV show I worked on about twelve years ago, before I got back into railway modelling we rented a demo layout for the show, Hornby I think. It was quite big, but it is a good place to look.

I will also track down the NMRA and see if they have anything.

Steve1, thanks for the offer, the layout will be shot in Bubwith, so whatever happens, we should meet up while I am filming.

No crash for the layout, but it does run a couple of circuits. I did my M.A. dissertation on historical accuracy in representing railway stations, and broadly the conclusion I came to was that it is best to give a feel of what people think should be right for a period drama. Of course if you are working on a documentary, then it must be as accurate as possible, and then there are degrees of accuracy needed. Here it is part of the general props, so just as with say a make of clock, the design of the dinner plates, the model of TV, books on the shelves they must seem right. I am sure that an expert in any of these fields could point out that a particular date is wring for an item. It does vary, for instance the representations of tanks and other military equipment in 'Band of Brothers' were researched and reproduced to a VERY high degree of accuracy as they were telling the true events (as far as were know) of people of whom many were still alive.

Were this a film about the son of Frank Hornby then it would be a very different approach, accuracy would be paramount.

That said there are art directors on films who can give a breakdown on what years all the cutlery used in a dinner scene was made, but more important for say a historical drama like those currently airing about the royal family.

Again, many thanks for the suggestions. I have a rough budget to work with, and will keep the thread updated with the solution. I will try and post some still from the set if they are cleared for sharing when we shoot.

Jamie

 

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I'm surprised you don't know much about US railroading, but I blame the increasing number of UK only outline shows for that.

 

If you did need a Exhibition layout then Peter North would be a good contact- his current layout meets your description and I believe he is familiar with the TV industry.

 

Anoraks Anonymous might also be worth contacting as they are fairly local to you (in Doncaster, ISTR).

 

As an amusing anecdote, I'd be wary of using a model depicting a current Railroad- Union Pacific weren't happy with the way their Engineer was portrayed in this video...:

 

https://vimeo.com/5039290 (Mike Watt-Big Train).

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Thanks, we do tend to cover up any recognizable trade marks, if you look closely at just about any TV on other device on a TV show or film, you will probably notice that the manufacturer's name is covered up with a tiny bit of gaffer tape, or something more solid for props used on long running series. Those that are visible are probably through some deal or even product placement, I do see a lot of Smeg fridges of TV shows for instance.

A quick search for Peter North (with safe search switched on, he has a namesake who worked in a different part of the 'entertainment' industry!) did show some lovely layouts, but an exhibition layout would not suitable for our needs, it has to look like a Christmas present for a little boy that has been played with and added to, but not something made by an expert modeller.

Cutty Black was nice to discover, but his US stock probably doesn't fit our needs, big steam engines and most US diesel.

It is interesting about the lines drawn between different areas of modelling. I have seen a lot of US layouts at exhibitions I have attended, and a couple of people at the Leeds Club I was at modeled US locations in diesel, but when I was asked for the specific needs for the film, I felt it was an area beyond my experience. Although I do like the 1930's Art Deco influenced big US streamlined locomotives, which have a very steam-punk feel and would fit with a lot of sci-fi films very well, beyond those I have very little knowledge of steam locomotives outside of Britain.

 

Sadly the layout I am trying to achieve will not be spectacular like many shown here, but simply fit the needs of the film. I was a little reluctant to do the layout as it is exactly what I strive to not produce, but I really like the director and teh team working on this film and it would be churlish to not offer my help in this area.

As always Rmweb has such a massive combined knowledge to draw on, and I am very grateful for any advice.

Jamie

Edited by Jamiel
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Jamiel - can I suggest you take a look at the replies to a question I asked a couple of days ago in post  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128507-assistance-needed-please/  Then look at the second Youtube video -  The layout may be ideal for what you need .There are several small US locos and wagons that would replace the British ones on there very neatly for your purposes - hope it helps. I'm not sure where the father/son team who built it are based, it but might be worth dropping them a line.

Edited by shortliner
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Thanks Shortliner

I think that both the videos on the link you show would be appropriate, but that said for the cost of collecting them and insuring them while on set, it is likely to be as easy for me to put something like that together myself. That would have the advantage of me building a loop to exactly the right size for the table on the film set.

I have emailed Bachmann to see if they have a demo layout that might be suitable, which would probably have insurance and be easily transported, but I think failing that I will build a layout, buy a new loco and put the other bits together from Ebay and the usual discount sources. That way we could order a second loco to be safe in case of failures and then sell off stock after the shoot on the forum or Ebay.

I am surprised by how little the selection of US steam locos within our price range seems to be, perhaps it is that UK modellers are spoilt for choice.

Jamie

Jamie

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I think your main problem will be that Bachmann Europe and Bachmann USA are two completely &;separate organizations. The BIG problem with trying to find US stock here is the cost of shipping and transport, which has gone up by leaps and bounds in the last year - best guess at the moment is Ebay or second hand to be honest with you. As a modeller of the US scene I feel your pain!

Edited by shortliner
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I spoke to Kernow yesterday and they have a few small locos in stock, so they are likely to be my first choice. Rails of Sheffield have some as well.

 

I am very wary to use second hand locos on a film set, although unlikely the risk of failure is too high compared to the cost of delays. Fortunately we are not looking to create anything that requires a specific loco, so anything we can get will fill our needs.

It is so very different planning this compared to my own layout. The director initially asked if he could use my layout, but when I said it was 12 foot by 20ft he realised that it was something quite different I was building. It is also interesting to be planning something that is not the best model I could possibly produce, but something I would have been happy with at the age of seven.
 

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Jamie,

 

Whilst I can understand what you mean about using a steam loco, the general public automatically associate US railways with the classic Santa Fe "Warbonnet" livery on. hood unit such as this:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=santa+fe+warbonnet+locomotives&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=isvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKk86ksuTXAhUmC8AKHWRQAoIQ_AUIEigB&biw=768&bih=905&dpr=2#imgdii=unr9-PDAO9CNkM:&imgrc=ZSkULo0glQNoJM:

 

Might be worth thinking about?

 

steve

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Jamie,

 

Whilst I can understand what you mean about using a steam loco, the general public automatically associate US railways with the classic Santa Fe "Warbonnet" livery on. hood unit such as this:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=santa+fe+warbonnet+locomotives&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=isvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKk86ksuTXAhUmC8AKHWRQAoIQ_AUIEigB&biw=768&bih=905&dpr=2#imgdii=unr9-PDAO9CNkM:&imgrc=ZSkULo0glQNoJM:

 

Might be worth thinking about?

 

steve

 

Thanks Steve. I will put that to the director this week, it is his choice. Either way would be fine, but it is just how he wants to portray the family.

 

 

Just seen this. I've made my little lad a simple 5ft loop layout. It's not finished scenically but generic enough that it could be used as US outline if you wanted to. We live in York too.

Thanks for that. I think we are probably going to make the layout now so it will fit the size of table used in the shoot, but I will bear it in mind. The base board and track are not expensive, and verses the chance of damaging someone property I think we might be safer. We will also be gluing on US style buildings and details, they need to be glued as if they move the continuity would be lost between shots. This will probably also include cars so it might take some toll on the baseboard.

 

We start on the pre production meetings this week, so everything will become clearer once we all sit down face to face and go through the film from start to finish.

 

It will be a couple of months before we put it all together but I will share some photos when it is done, provided I can clear them with the production.

 

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

Jamie

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Steve

The filming has been put back a month, so we will be shooting in March. Apologies for not updating the thread.

I was also knocked off my bicycle coming home from work in December and badly injured so have not been working since then.

I will be well in time to supervise the visual effects on the film, and will build a small layout before filming.

The delay has come at a good time for me as you can imagine, but I will keep everyone updated when things do start happening.

All the best.

Jamie

Edited by Jamiel
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