Reversing Beeching

[chriswright03]

Not seen this mentioned which surprised me as it is on a FB group I use and Jeremy Vine currently discussing it on Radio2.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42157853

 

Without getting into politics perhaps worth a discussion.

[jwealleans]

That would be Dr. Beeching, then, not the manufacturer of powders?

[chriswright03]

Oops.  Predictive text and lack of attention.  Thanks for that, now changed.

[melmerby]

I have read the Government's paper that they have released and I would say it is 80% already announced, 10% vague, 10% hot air.

 

e.g. the "New Lines" around Birmingham would seem to be a few chords to interconnect routes and there appear to be one or two re-opened short stretches elsewhere in the country.

So those expecting a resurrected Somerset & Dorset or Great Central - dream on!

 

See for yourself:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/663124/rail-vision-web.pdf

 

Keith

[Joseph_Pestell]

Came up as "trending" on Yahoo!. That led to various links this morning including an article in The Daily Torygraph.

 

A bit of political hype, I think. Does Mr Grayling realise just how much those alignments have been destroyed by various ill-considered developments?

[chriswright03]

Already some are talking about re-instating lost lines where house, industrial estates or cycle paths have been built.  Not very realistic but now the car is the enemy of the State the train is looking good again.

[Oldddudders]

NR probably doesn't have the optimum number of qualified senior engineers it would like or certainly needs, but is awash with contract preparers and managers. And now those few engineers will be distributed among multiple TOCs? So the Big Boys will pay the best salaries and get the best engineers and the minnows will get lesser people. 

 

What could possibly go wrong?

[Happy Hippo]

As is usual, Beeching will get the blame for closing many lines that were already closed or scheduled to close before he came into the fray.

 

The problem with reopening some lines, is the decision after the lines were closed to allow housing to be built as well as major road remodelling over the old track beds.

 

Compulsory purchase would be a massively unpopular action in this day and age.

 

However, at the risk of sticking my head on the chopping block, I 'd say that pouring billions into improving existing rail infrastructure and reopening old lines to serve a growing demand is probably money better spent than HS2 which will only serve a very limited market.

[Oldddudders]

 

 

However, at the risk of sticking my head on the chopping block, I 'd say that pouring billions into improving existing rail infrastructure and reopening old lines to serve a growing demand is probably money better spent than HS2 which will only serve a very limited market.

 

It is not the market that HS2 serves that is the important point, it is the released capacity on the existing overstretched network which means it adds value for everyone between Birmingham and London. 

[Dunsignalling]

The mention of the Exeter area seems curious as the only complete closures were the Teign Valley and Exe Valley branches, both of which have been quite heavily built over since, plus the SR line to Plymouth. 

 

My guess is it will be the revival of passenger traffic on the last-mentioned, but that it will only amount to new stations and signalling on the part remaining in situ as far as Okehampton, so not a huge leap forward. 

 

If it comes at the cost of dropping plans to re-connect Tavistock with Plymouth, it doesn't constitute much to celebrate IMHO.

 

John

[Oldddudders]

The Exeter area needs more trains, not more rails. 

[chrisf]

I will see what I can find to read about this having been jolted from my early morning reverie when it was announced on the Today programme. 

 

Something over 15 years ago I used to deputise for a colleague by attending meetings of the East West Consortium in an observing capacity on behalf of the Government Office for the East of England.  One might think that it is easy to reinstate a railway which already has track in place but clearly there is more to it - consultations and more consultations, will it or won't it be electrified and other types of constant indecision.  The length of time spent in not reopening to Portishead is another example of how much cannot be achieved despite widespread expressions of support.  As work proceeds at a pace which would shame an arthritic tortoise costs escalate, projects are deemed unaffordable and all is forgotten.  I really would like to see something come of this morning's news item but on past form it is destined to constitute tomorrow's chip wrapping.

 

Chris

[stewartingram]

From little acorns.....

 

At least a step in the right direction with a somewhat change of attitude nowadays.

 

Stewart

[Richard E]

Too late for Cambridge to St Ives!

 

And that was a line where the money men said that the existing infrastructure was too poor to warrant upgrading the line. How many are there that will be in the same category yet people hope to have a railway again.

 

Kings Lynn perhaps? Not sure about elsewhere in the country as I'm too out of date with developments really.

 

It is a welcome development though.

[Southernman46]

Quite frankly words fail me .................................................... this was inevitable from 01/04/94 ...................... now watch them f*ck this up too .........................

 

Oldudders post above captures it very succinctly ...................

 

Chip on shoulder mode

Whatever, it's not my problem anymore, burnt my bridges with the National Network years ago over an issue which has I'm sad to say has continued to see the apparent decline of Wessex route maintenance and an alliance with SWR ain't going to rescue that , it was tried with SWT and it didn't work then - that was effectively just a SWT senior management takeover, in essence there aren't enough infrastructure people left of the right calibre due to the 94-04 lack of recruitment and the attempt to plug the hole with cheap graduates, plenty of people who know how to produce spreadsheets and unworkable P3 planning but few who can actively run or maintain a railway .............. all I experience now is a frequently delayed, ROUGH journey to & from work where the TOC do not care about the connections policy.

Chip off shoulder mode

 

Now where's my Bulleid diesel ................... ?   

Edited November 29, 2017 by Southernman46

[lmsforever]

Agree East West has been rumbling along for so long its a miracle its actually happening as has Skipton Colne the authorities are well practised at stalling whilst at the same time encouraging people to keep going with the reopening.I saw this item on todays news and took it with a pinch of salt as I do not believe announcements by any of our elected leaders or their acolytes due to the need for the need to show caring for the people.

[Fenman]

...

Kings Lynn perhaps? Not sure about elsewhere in the country as I'm too out of date with developments really.

...

 

King's Lynn never lost its railway.

 

Hunstanton did. As did all routes Lynn-Norwich. There's already hope of Cambridge-Wisbech being revived - extending it to a through-route Wisbech-Lynn might be do-able.

 

But ... I am not holding my breath for any of this.

 

Paul 

[Mike Storey]

As said, most of this is re-gurgitated puff, but the advent of compulsory Alliancing combined with the "simplification" of the management and relationship structures, could get very interesting, especially on multi-TOC and FOC routes/regions....

 

The one thing I had not seen before is the Rebalancing Tool Kit, which endeavours to permit greater acknowledgement of wider social and economic benefits in justifying any business case, thus reversing previous, very restrictive Treasury constraints. This one action, if it turns out to have any teeth at all, could be a game changer, if there is any money left of course.

[The Johnster]

Gnihceeb.  There you go, fixed that for you, reversed Beeching.

 

It is true that many closures that took place in the early 60s, particularly of branch lines and minor cross country routes, were not actually down to him, but the mass extinction of small stations on main lines, along with their goods yards, very largely was.  A slash and burn 'rationalising' culture was predominant in BR before he arrived and facilitated it.

 

It is also true that many modern revival schemes are vague unfocussed talking shops that are not likely to achieve much; may I propose the various 'Metro' schemes advocated for Cardiff and it's hinterland, with huge sums spent already on feasibility studies which are basically wishlists based on overgrown trackbeds on which the drainage collapsed years. ago, that need complete rebuilding and replacement of bridges.   The upshot may be that Creigiau, a village whose population has quadrupled since 1963 and which is now largely a Cardiff Dormitory connected by very inadequate roads, may get a station and a railway at some time in the future, when it's needs could be satisfied now by a park and ride at Miskin Loops.

 

Meanwhile, towns like Brecon or Monmouth, also considerably expanded since 1963 and in the case of Brecon served by indifferent roads and a weather vulnerable mountain pass to the south, have no hope of being reconnected to the rail network.

 

Good luck to the new system, but I'm not holding my breath...

[Echo]

Is this this new announcement just for England though?

[chriswright03]

Is this this new announcement just for England though?

Yes and we are having the wall rebuilt!

[Zomboid]

It is just for England, and transport is devolved in Scotland and Wales, and I have no idea about NI these days (maybe the Antrim to Lisburn line will be reinstated some time since it runs along part of the perimeter of Belfast Intl, but I suspect that's not something Grayling is worried about, though they do vote DUP round there).

[Pete the Elaner]

Beeching has received a lot of flak for the closures, but he was appointed with the explicit brief to cut expenditure to the bone & did exactly that.

Most of the lines have been built on now. Who is going to pay the massive cost of re-building & re-aligning?

 

There was talk of re-nationalisation too. Both main parties have had consecutive terms in office with no apparent desire to do this, so any talk of it now is just opposition propaganda.

[D854_Tiger]

I have read the Government's paper that they have released and I would say it is 80% already announced, 10% vague, 10% hot air.

 

e.g. the "New Lines" around Birmingham would seem to be a few chords to interconnect routes and there appear to be one or two re-opened short stretches elsewhere in the country.

So those expecting a resurrected Somerset & Dorset or Great Central - dream on!

 

See for yourself:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/663124/rail-vision-web.pdf

 

Keith

 

 

I suspect the idea is that the private sector provides the vision, not the government, whether that materialises or not is another question but what is sure for any agenda for more state control (which its proponents must first have an answer to) is that the state doesn't have any money, it does however have lots and lots of debt and it has a lot of other funding priorities (such as the NHS) that the voters will always insist comes first.

 

So much needs to be done on UK infrastructure, transport, energy, water, housing and it makes sense to find ways for the private sector to fund those things because it's difficult to see any realistic amounts (i.e. anything like enough) of funding coming from government.

 

Michael Portillo made the point on This Week last Thursday (making the example of the old Soviet Union) that all too often when the state intervenes in the market it ends up with shortages.

 

Well I reckon Beeching could certainly be described as a shortage, so could road congestion and so could the broken housing market that's plagued with state intervention (or planning as we prefer to know it).

 

Then when one looks at the truly eye watering amounts NR wants, just to get up in the morning, it's not difficult to see why rail projects more often than not never materialise.

 

Say what you like about the private sector (and I can think of plenty that's bad to say), but the old state run BA would never have come up with the idea of Ryanair and forty quid fares to somewhere nowhere near Dusseldorf.

 

I remember when Branson first set up Virgin Atlantic, with just one 747 to his name. He was being interviewed at Heathrow by some **** stiring journalist trying to imply his cheaper fares could only be achieved by compromising on safety, "How else was he going to do it." He turned round and pointed at the BA four storey management block and said, "I haven't got one of those."

[D854_Tiger]

Is this this new announcement just for England though?

 

The Westminster government can make life difficult enough for the SNP that they will either be forced to follow suit or suffer rail services deteriorating.

 

The SNP will then have to find ways to blame any bad outcomes as England's fault (their usual ploy on which up to now they've successfully based their entire political career) but that sort of thing only has so much shelf life and tends to wear thin after a while with the voters.