Possible New Layout

[Doris]

Hello all,

 

First post so please be kind!

 

I've been attempting to get into this hobby for a while but I'm getting a bit stuck.

 

I've tried before and spent a fortune on 00 streamline points, track, rolling stock etc. but I got ejected from the room where I had intended to build the layout.

 

I'm now stuck with an area with a max size of 8' x 2' foot with a number of cut outs for furniture and to allow the door to open.

 

The only other restrictions I have is that I must use a station that was bought for me last Christmas which must accommodate a class 108 2 car DMU that I have.

 

I'm trying to keep the layout in the 50s / 60s and have only bought (green) diesels from that era (there is a Class 128, a Class 25 and a Class 33.

 

I've spent ages on SCARM and keep coming up with similar track plans, I've attached copies of the best two (in my opinion).

 

I prefer the top one but the issue for me would be that to get across the layout you always have to go across the double slip in the middle.

 

For the bottom I would have to buy two more double slips and 4 point motors and then even more of the previously bought points would remain unused.

 

Away from industrial areas all sidings are around 600mm long so can accommodate an engine and three or four wagons.

 

Could I please ask for comments on both plans especially on the one at the top and whether there could be an issue with central double slip. Could I also ask whether you think there would be enough interest from the if I made the layout as planned and whether there is too much track.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

D

[imt]

Hi to you too, and welcome to RMWeb.  There are lots of helpful people around here.  Have you read some of the other threads, because there are a host of repetitious questions about to start whilst we work out HOW to help.

 

1: is this the total size available to you, or can (for example) an extra board be attached for a fiddle yard? However temporary (such as a narrow board on the top of a bookshelf or chest) it adds a dimension to the operational opportunities,

2: can you get all round this layout or can you only access and view from the front?

2: how do you propose to introduce/remove stock from the layout if you don't have a fiddle yard?  Cassettes - and if so where would they be put on this plan.

3: what is the purpose of all the tracks?  Why are they there, what is the industry, where do supplies come form and products go to, from which bits of this plant? Is this just for shunting, or do you envisage a timetable for your trains coming in and out?

4: Less is often more - one double slip might be good, two looks like overkill and has complications for wiring and control. Three........?

5: layout 2 has one thing going for it, a possible run round loop between 2 of the slips - but since I don't know where in or out is the loop may not be very helpful.

6: why are you wasting layout space with that great lump of "controller" - what is is and cannot it be put on the side?

 

Perhaps that will do for a start.  Good luck.

[Doris]

Hello,

 

Thanks very much for the reply

 

I'm at my absolute limit regarding size so there's no room for a fiddle yard. The layout will lay on a double chest of drawers, it's in a corner so there are walls on two sides, there's a door to contend with on the other so I've only got access from the front.

 

The stock will just be moved around the layout, there's the industry area and I've a few ramps etc. dotted around, so it will be mostly shunting with the occasional appearance of a DMU / 128 at the station,. The long line to the right of the station should allow me to park / part hide the DMU behind the building when its not in the station.

 

If you have a look at the top plan I've got a run around, it's to the left of the bottom point in the industrial area, it's about 490mm long so can take 4 wagons, to the right of the same point the line is 220mm which should be enough to get rid of the engine that has dropped off the wagons.

 

The controller is an ESU ECoS, I need it to be permanently in place, I know that if things aren't quick to set up that I'll lose interest. There's no room to put it anywhere else.

[tractionman]

Hi, there's a layout featured in this month's Railway Modeller magazine called Bristol St Philips which would be worth a look. The article has a scale plan, and combines a yard for freight and a station, a little like your plan but with a fiddle yard at one end. It's two feet across too, and although length is twelve feet of scenic section it could be compressed, the scale plan in the article would give you a feel for what it would be like to lose four feet. A small fiddle yard could be accommodated by having a couple of sidings 'hidden' behind a retaining wall at one end. Just a thought. Good luck with the layout.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

[imt]

 

Hello,

 

Thanks very much for the reply

 

I'm at my absolute limit regarding size so there's no room for a fiddle yard. The layout will lay on a double chest of drawers, it's in a corner so there are walls on two sides, there's a door to contend with on the other so I've only got access from the front.

 

The stock will just be moved around the layout, there's the industry area and I've a few ramps etc. dotted around, so it will be mostly shunting with the occasional appearance of a DMU / 128 at the station,. The long line to the right of the station should allow me to park / part hide the DMU behind the building when its not in the station.

 

If you have a look at the top plan I've got a run around, it's to the left of the bottom point in the industrial area, it's about 490mm long so can take 4 wagons, to the right of the same point the line is 220mm which should be enough to get rid of the engine that has dropped off the wagons.

 

The controller is an ESU ECoS, I need it to be permanently in place, I know that if things aren't quick to set up that I'll lose interest. There's no room to put it anywhere else.

 

 

Well you haven't helped me very much.  So here's a critique.

 

1: there's too much track.  Less is more.

2: I would want to "bring in" trains, shunt them about and make up one to go out.  So I would take your bottom right line straighten it and make it a cassette (more on that if you want it)

3: things are all over the place - what is the line behind the station for?  Why the kickback siding.  What are the 2 lines below the platform for?

4: things are too big - use half relief station buildings and push things to the back more.

 

My thoughts on a scrap of paper are attached.  The idea is to have an "input" cassette bottom right.

 

Freight is brought in to the headshunt, there are 2 exchange sidings, dump the in train into the in siding, sort the out train into the out siding, shunt the in train into the industry sidings as appropriate, pull out the out train from the out siding into the station, run round wagons , draw train out to cassette.

 

For variation bring in 108/128.  You could have an industrial shunter too? 

 

I attach a sketch - I don't have access to a track planning program at the moment.

SCN1512049515585.pdf

Edited November 30, 2017 by imt

[Flying Pig]

 

My thoughts on a scrap of paper are attached.  The idea is to have an "input" cassette bottom right.

 

Freight is brought in to the headshunt, there are 2 exchange sidings, dump the in train into the in siding, sort the out train into the out siding, shunt the in train into the industry sidings as appropriate, pull out the out train from the out siding into the station, run round wagons , draw train out to cassette.

 

For variation bring in 108/128.  You could have an industrial shunter too? 

 

I attach a sketch - I don't have access to a track planning program at the moment.

I do agree that unless the layout is going to be just for shunting, some sort of fiddle yard is needed to give the trains somewhere to run to, and also that the original plans are very crowded. However, I'm not really keen on this: it isn't railway-like to have the headshunt cross the running line to reach the sidings, particularly where there are passenger trains.

 

Would a fiddle yard at the rear right be accessible, or is that too inconvenient? I was thinking along the lines of a traditional branch terminus with single platform at the back on the left and runround loop and sidings in front. The industry would be at the front right as a kickback with (removable?) buildings masking the fiddle yard.

[imt]

I do agree that unless the layout is going to be just for shunting, some sort of fiddle yard is needed to give the trains somewhere to run to, and also that the original plans are very crowded. However, I'm not really keen on this: it isn't railway-like to have the headshunt cross the running line to reach the sidings, particularly where there are passenger trains.

 

Would a fiddle yard at the rear right be accessible, or is that too inconvenient? I was thinking along the lines of a traditional branch terminus with single platform at the back on the left and runround loop and sidings in front. The industry would be at the front right as a kickback with (removable?) buildings masking the fiddle yard.

 

I agree - it wouldn't be railway-like but I think we have to accept that this is for fun and in a very limited space.  We are talking 2 car DMUs max. here and locos + 4 or so wagons/vans.

 

I think the OP has already said access from the front only - hence my suggestion of the bottom right to top left diagonal to give a little more running room.  The "non-scenic" cassette is a device I have seen used on small layouts and can be done quite cleanly so that (when the cassette is removed) the visual impression is clean.  The are are plenty of ways to make cassettes - which is a discussion for later (and there are already threads on the subject.

[Zomboid]

A fiddle yard is not totally necessary, it depends on your ability to switch in and out of "playing" mode. If you're ok to manually place cars on the layout and then start playing, saying that you're starting from when the train has just arrived, and finishing just before it clears off, then there's no need for a fiddle yard. In reality the fun is in the breaking up of the incoming train and making up the new one - going on and off scene is about 30 seconds of the whole process.

I built my first layout on that principle, and it worked well, but not everyone is satisfied without somewhere off scene.

[DCB]

Realistically you are looking at a loco depot in 00 for mainline locos and DMUs or an industrial area for small 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 locos and a few wagons in the space you have.  I would get the distance between tracks right down to under 50mm to give an illusion of space and with such a small space it is better done by shuffling bits of track on a board than on a computer.   I would put a divide about 6" in from the back for some hidden sidings maybe kickback style accessed by a sector plate. I would work on the scenics to hide the hidden siding access and make it believable.  In Scotland class 37s were seen hauling just one bogie Grain wagons and in Cornwall on single china clay wagons so a Distillery or Clay Dries would make a potential layout but fitting in a DMU won't be easy.

However you have plenty of potential for an N gauge or 009 narrow gauge system.  Maybe shelve the 00, keep it in a display case and build an N gauge layout to operate?

Edited December 1, 2017 by DavidCBroad

[Rivercider]

My layout fits on two boards totalling 8'6" x 18", and I did my design using old bits of Hornby track.

I am sure it would work at 8' long with some compression, and you have extra width available,

Here is a photo of the final plan as built, it is viewed and operated from the right.

I wanted a shunting layout but included a single platform for a DMU/14XX autocoach passenger service.

The two road fiddle yard is bottom left  hidden by the row of white boxes, (my fiddle yard is boxed in, with a bus garage over when not in use,

a 2 car DMU will stand in clear in either fiddle yard road.

The run-round is within the yard.

I planned that the bottom right 3 sidings could be a small depot, but now have them set up as a small coal yard,

there is a good shed top right.

The controller is permanently mounted where the tape measure is,

 

hope this helps

Kevin

[imt]

That's encouraging Kevin, and I hope it helps.  The idea of using pieces of track rather than trying with paper might also assist.  It might also give some "play value" and encourage further design thoughts.  Better to do something not too fixed to start with perhaps - and then see how it goes.

 

At the risk of seeming too clever by half and insisting I am right can I add a bit more.  If you put the main line across the middle of the board you do get more apparent room to play with and it encourages making different areas either side of the line - goods sidings, industry, loco depot and so on.  As I understand it you need to operate from the front so if you go for an "input" area then I recommend the idea of cassettes in the bottom right hand area, where you can put a train in and take a train out easily.  Remember the difficulty of putting track at the back of your baseboard is that it makes operating points and uncoupling wagons difficult.  It can be a long reach to the detriment of buildings and scenery near the front.  Automatic coupling systems can help, and there are some easy ways to create automatic uncoupling for tension link couplings so you don't need expensive different kinds.

 

Personally I would recommend that you DON'T worry too much about being "railway like" unless you want to or perhaps it's your day job.  With small spaces compromises have to be made.  Often less is more.  Suggestions: make some lines curve, don't have everything parallel; make sure you have places to hold a rake of wagons whilst you shunt things - most real life situations have one or more exchange sidings where trains can be split up on arrival or left for collection by passing freights.

 

Lert us have some input and we will do all we can to encourage you.  The breadth of opinions can be helpful in letting you make your decisions.

Edited December 1, 2017 by imt