Building North Eastern Railway Signals

[micknich2003]

Not all that it appears? Clearly it's carrying signals for the main and relief/goods lines, as is the more modern signal behind the Type 4. I don't think we're actually expecting a train on every line. Is the box switched out? (If so, why has the window been left open?)

 

Do tell!

 

EDIT: I meant to remark on the wooden posts bracing the bracket from either side.

Cave Crossing as never been a Block Post, nor is it exempt from what was Rule 99, hence always "Pulled Off".

[micknich2003]

Not all that it appears? Clearly it's carrying signals for the main and relief/goods lines, as is the more modern signal behind the Type 4. I don't think we're actually expecting a train on every line. Is the box switched out? (If so, why has the window been left open?)

 

Do tell!

 

EDIT: I meant to remark on the wooden posts bracing the bracket from either side.

The attached will give you a clue.

[micknich2003]

Ex NERly signals and signalbox, Gilbert Lane 1963. Photo' Steve Flint.

 

[micknich2003]

Staddlethorpe Junction looking towards Hull, early '60's.

[Compound2632]

Staddlethorpe Junction looking towards Hull, early '60's.

1 STADDLETHORPE c1960.jpg

 

The North Eastern Railway planted small signals like this at the lineside. With frequent watering and occasional bedding in with locomotive ash, they grew into great sprouting gantries. That's the first rational explanation I've encountered for the North Eastern's profusion of signals.

[micknich2003]

Large signal bridge once at Westparade Hull, new 1904. For would be builders, Mike will shortly be adding a working drawing.

[sp1]

Large signal bridge once at Westparade Hull, new 1904. For would be builders, Mike will shortly be adding a working drawing.

WESTPARADE 1937.JPG

It never ceases to amaze me how drivers would know which of those signals to follow when they were approaching something like that.... Edited August 15, 2018 by sp1

[Compound2632]

Good. I was worried I'd killed this off with my rude remarks about the miniature or shunting signal. One can never have too many NER signals, which is just as well...

[The Stationmaster]

It never ceases to amaze me how drivers would know which of those signals to follow when they were approaching something like that....

 

Generally they could count so could work out which one was which as long as they knew the road properly.  But as with just about any signal, including the most modern of them, Drivers sometimes got it wrong and occasionally got it disastrously wrong although the latter rarely involved signals on large gantry structures.

[micknich2003]

Ex H&BRly two doll bracket signal and as later modified. Sallyfield Junction Up Main Outer Home signals.

 

[mikemeg]

A few  postings above, Mick Nicholson posted a photo of a signal bridge, situated about half a mile outside Hull Paragon Station, immediately before the various routes out of Hull diverged/ into Hull converged. The photo was taken in 1937 though this signal bridge was not taken out of service until 12.01 am on July 27th, 1954. Mick referred to the fact that someone was planning to produce a 4mm drawing of this signal installation i.e. me.

 

Anyway, after a couple of abortive attempts - because some of the sizing assumptions were clearly wrong - after revisiting and rechecking all of the sizing assumptions, the third attempt at this drawing has been progressed to completion.

 

For anyone who might wish to model this installation, I can provide copies of this 4 mm drawing - I always retain the originals. With twelve dolls, twenty full size arms and two smaller arms; with the slotting housings on the dolls all extending downwards by differing amounts and with that full length gallery, this might present something of a challenge, especially as the main decking would almost certainly have to be scratch built!!

 

So Hull West Parade signal bridge, as it appeared in 1937. The principal difference between its 1937 condition and its condition just prior to withdrawal, would be the lamps. In 1937 almost every lamp was a North Eastern original, whereas at least some would have been replaced by smaller LNER lamps by the 1950's.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

It's quite some time since I posted the picture of the drawing, above, and I haven't done very much work to the signal models still work in progress. Anyway, here are a couple of prototype photos of a signal bridge which stood at Hessle Haven, around four miles outside Hull on the main line to Doncaster, Selby and points beyond.

 

It was these photographs, all courtesy Mick Nicholson, which were the inspiration to build a model of this structure and which provided the information from which a detailed 4 mm drawing could be made. I think this was the fourth signal model which I made, after a couple of ex-North Eastern brackets and an ex-North Eastern gantry. And yes the tiny wheels, on the decking, really do work!

 

Anyone who reads this thread will know, by now, that I have an enormous fondness for these structures. When we were kids the railway abounded with such structures and we took little or no notice of them; they would always be there. Of course, they wouldn't always be there and now they are all but gone and the whole railway scene is the poorer for their passing!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by mikemeg

[Ken.W]

On 11/04/2018 at 22:03, russ p said:

Hi Mick

 

Sorry to go off topic is this Cliff house ? I didn't realise north works was as close to the railway as this. Do you know when it was taken and if the blast furnace was still in use

Cheers

 

Hi Russ

 

Have just read this thread but yes, that is definitely Cliff House

I remember the steel works still being there, stretching from the overbridge before Hartlepool right down to Seaton Carew (aka Seeking Canoe), so there till late 70s / early 80s

[Ken.W]

On 05/12/2017 at 08:10, Compound2632 said:

Let me see if I've got this right:

The bracket signal with the outer homes, that was to be removed, was in rear of the signal bridge, i.e. would be encountered first by an up train.

Moving the signal bridge back 90yds meant moving it further in rear of the junction it signals, i.e. towards the position of the bracket signal - an up train would encounter it sooner than previously.

Fingers crossed!

 

Fingers crossed, why?

You seen to be implying an Up train would encounter the signal bridge sooner than expected?

 

These works weren't done in secret overnight! The details would have been published in Section C of the Weekly Operating (or "P.Way") notice, that all train crew working over the route were required to sign for and read.

 

Besides that, on the form under the 'present' arrangement, the bridge and bracket are shown as being 180 and 270 yards from the Signal Box, so, 90 yards apart.

The bridge was being moved back 90 yards.

So the worst that could happen would be for an Up train to find the bridge exactly where it'd been expecting to find the bracket, and no change in braking distance approaching the signal .

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, Ken.W said:

 

Fingers crossed, why?

 

 

@Ken.W I'm not sure I remember quite why but I think "fingers crossed" referred to my understanding of the signalling - i.e. have I understood this correctly?

[Ken.W]

On 05/10/2019 at 04:47, Compound2632 said:

 

@Ken.W I'm not sure I remember quite why but I think "fingers crossed" referred to my understanding of the signalling - i.e. have I understood this correctly?

 

Hi,

I seem to have mis-interpreted what you were saying. It seemed you were suggesting a train would be encountering the signal bridge sooner than expected, but the weekly notice would have informed them of the work.

 

Yes, what you summarized about the works was correct;

The bracket, which was to be removed, was before the signal bridge to an approaching train.

Moving the signal bridge back would be towards the position of the removed gantry.

 

As, from the details on the form, they'd been 90 yards apart, moving the signal bridge back 90 yards would place it in the same position where the removed bracket had been.

 

The work, basically, did away with the outer homes by moving the inner homes back to the outer homes former position. As someone has referred to above, the NERly were (in?)famous for their rather generous provision of signals.

To signal an NER layout, first signal every conceivable move, and then most inconceivable ones as well!

I've read somewhere that a later Chief Signals Engineer for the area (LNER or BRNE) boasted to have removed a signal for every day of his office.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Ken.W

[62613]

On 05/10/2019 at 14:08, Ken.W said:

 

Hi,

I seem to have mis-interpreted what you were saying. It seemed you were suggesting a train would be encountering the signal bridge sooner than expected, but the weekly notice would have informed them of the work.

 

Yes, what you summarized about the works was correct;

The bracket, which was to be removed, was before the signal bridge to an approaching train.

Moving the signal bridge back would be towards the position of the removed gantry.

 

As, from the details on the form, they'd been 90 yards apart, moving the signal bridge back 90 yards would place it in the same position where the removed bracket had been.

 

The work, basically, did away with the outer homes by moving the inner homes back to the outer homes former position. As someone has referred to above, the NERly were (in?)famous for their rather generous provision of signals.

To signal an NER layout, first signal every conceivable move, and then most inconceivable ones as well!

I've read somewhere that a later Chief Signals Engineer for the area (LNER or BRNE) boasted to have removed a signal for every day of his office.

 

The last paragraph is correct! Just can't remember his name, except that he was the ex- S&T chief on the former GC.

[russ p]

With a few NE signal experts on here, does anyone know why there were NE shunt or goods line signals were double sided.  I'm o about the short post miniature arm slotted post signals 

I've seen pictures of them in the siding north of levisham and the dock at the south end of Pickering,  I cant think how they would work and I wonder what the show in the dark. 

These were in pre preservation days, I'm sure there must have been others 

[micknich2003]

Russ, a "Bothway Signal, they read in and out of the siding, the rest was up to the drivers route knowledge. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by micknich2003

[russ p]

Cheers Mick, were there fairly widespread? 

[micknich2003]

Russ, this is the picture I also intended to attach, you can see the reverse of the arm is also painted red with the usual white stripe and there are two spectacle plates. There was an example in Hull at Dansom Lane, they were not common, but not unusual.

[micknich2003]

Here's the Dansom Lane part signalling plan.

[russ p]

Cheers Mick,  thought you would know about them , a lot of people have never heard of them 

[Derekstuart]

On 06/12/2017 at 16:38, micknich2003 said:

Some interesting detail here.

 

I have a feeling I know where that might be, Mick.

 

From what Mike has written on one of his posts it looks like a case of using MSE lattice etches with some very fine L shaped brass (this is something I've never seen before- not that fine anyway.) Beyond my skills- for now.

 

Where would one start with building something like that (1:76)? There are kits for gantries (or is it bridges in NER?) but I've not seen one like this before in kit form. Just curiosity- it's nothing I'm planning just yet.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Derekstuart

[RBAGE]

This seems to be just the place I need to be at this very moment in time.

I started to build this signal some time ago based on an image posted by MickNich in April 2018.

The signal was further completed up to the point where I had to make things move. Then stopped. My limitations.

I am now in the process of partial dismantle in the hope of making it easier to get it operational.

I have no photographs of the original signal, only the sketch from a signalling diagram.

 

You can see that the post carrying signal 33 is a continuation of one of the main posts. Whereas, the my signal copies the April 2018 posted image.

Is this significant? Does the signal diagram drawing reflect the construction of the signal or is it just a representation to show the signal arrangement?

I have no problems in starting from scratch and to have the signal post in line would make operation easier, straight down the post, for that signal anyway.

 

So, the signal is controlled by the Newton Hall Junction box (just north of Durham). If anyone has any information on this signal or the two gantries at the junction, I would be grateful for any help or information.

 

Thanks,

 

Bob