St. Simon Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Hi, Has anyone got a set of the new DCC Concepts Position Light Signals and managed to measure them? Having had a close look at Warley, I would say they are probably twice the size they should be and the 'traditional' LMS / BR shunts have long hoods, something that only really adorn the latest LED 'Red-Red' signals? Whilst I'm happy that they square fibre optic type has been produced rather than adding even more of the traditional type to the market and the price per signal is very reasonable, I'm sad that the scale seems to have gone out the window? I'm happy to be proved wrong though! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Here are the Dorman drawings with full dimensions http://www.unipartdorman.co.uk/assets/pls-dimensions.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 Here are the Dorman drawings with full dimensions http://www.unipartdorman.co.uk/assets/pls-dimensions.pdf Hi Cal, Already have a full set of the drawings for work purposes, I just wanted to compare them to the model as I think the DCC Concepts are too large. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_ruc Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Simon. Who would you recommend I start buying my collection of signals from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Hi Cal, Already have a full set of the drawings for work purposes, I just wanted to compare them to the model as I think the DCC Concepts are too large. Simon Compare away, if they are really overscale, then the prototype dimensions will let you know. Note the DCC concepts ones aren't based on the dorman light, but the LMS and subsequently BR one, but I imagine the dorman one is modelled on the BR version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted December 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2017 Simon. Who would you recommend I start buying my collection of signals from? https://www.absoluteaspects.com/ Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 Simon. Who would you recommend I start buying my collection of signals from? As Dagworth suggests, Absolute Aspects, but if you're on a budget, the next I would recommend would be CR Signals or possibly Traintronics for the basic signals. I wouldn't use Traintech, Eckon or Berko if I'm honest. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) Hi Simon You are right about the size based on what was in their newsletter. https://www.dccconcepts.com/news/ If the measurements on their drawing are right they are probably about 2/3 oversize at 4mm so would be nearer to O Gauge like the Wills OO Gauge point rodding. Eric Edited December 1, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 Hi Simon You are right about the size based on what was in their newsletter. https://www.dccconcepts.com/news/ If the measurements on their drawing are right they are probably about 2/3 oversize at 4mm so would be nearer to O Gauge like the Wills OO Gauge point rodding. Eric Thanks Eric, I thought they were, in fact after a quick bit of maths and a scan through my Dorman drawings show that the DCC Concepts signals are a millimeter wider than a scale Dorman LED Searchlight should be in 'OO'! I can't believe the overscale head is due to the electronics as Absolute Aspects and CR Signals seem to do pretty well! Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold imt Posted December 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2017 As Dagworth suggests, Absolute Aspects, but if you're on a budget, the next I would recommend would be CR Signals or possibly Traintronics for the basic signals. I wouldn't use Traintech, Eckon or Berko if I'm honest. Simon Absolute Aspects are fantastic - as are their prices and delivery times (or were when I asked). CR Signals' web site is a joke BUT don't be put off and phone up. They do signals with JPLI and PLS but not Route Indicators and can be creative with design but you need to discuss needs. Nobody I have come across does the miniature route indicators that go on G/PLS. Traintech are good basic signals but without any frills. They are designed for "train set" type of layouts, or cheapskates such as me. They work well but are not particularly "authentic". Their best aspects are price and that they include DCC control (just fit in and attach famous DCC two wires). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Try here http://www.traintronics.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Traintech are good basic signals but without any frills. They are designed for "train set" type of layouts, or cheapskates such as me. They work well but are not particularly "authentic". Their best aspects are price and that they include DCC control (just fit in and attach famous DCC two wires).Traintech have just vastly expanded their kits - quite useful as cheap source for kit bashing / partial scratch building, I am adopting one with a dot matrix display into a SR type signal - the dot matrix is admittedly limited to one digit being displayed but that fits my layout perfectly due to routes having been abandoned since the signal was installed leaving just two - one indicated by a green and the dot matrix blank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 Nobody I have come across does the miniature route indicators that go on G/PLS. A bit off topic, but I've 3D printed one to go one of my GPLs, but it only shows one indication, because they are simply too small to be made working and scaled correctly! I am adopting one with a dot matrix display into a SR type signal - the dot matrix is admittedly limited to one digit being displayed but that fits my layout perfectly due to routes having been abandoned since the signal was installed leaving just two - one indicated by a green and the dot matrix blank. In most cases, both routes would be indicated by the SI, although if one route is above > 60mph, you might get away with it, but I think this is a modern thing rather than a long standing thing, so you might require two indications. Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_ruc Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Ok guys. You get what you pays for I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 In most cases, both routes would be indicated by the SI, although if one route is above > 60mph, you might get away with it, but I think this is a modern thing rather than a long standing thing, so you might require two indications.Had a feeling that was the case but Rule 1 will have to apply. Given the signal will be straight outside a signal box (subject to the box fitting the gap between the tracks okay) suppose it could be the a case of the switching of the display having gone faulty and hence footplate crews getting visual confirmation from the signalman when no route is displayed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 On the “real” railway route indications are usually proven to be correctly displayed before the associated signal can show a proceed aspect. You would be very unlikely to get a yellow/green aspect with an unlit thatre or matrix indicator Tim T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted December 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2017 A bit off topic, but I've 3D printed one to go one of my GPLs, but it only shows one indication, because they are simply too small to be made working and scaled correctly! In most cases, both routes would be indicated by the SI, although if one route is above > 60mph, you might get away with it, but I think this is a modern thing rather than a long standing thing, so you might require two indications. Simon I built these from scratch many years back, the stencil indicators can show 4 different things. Andi 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2017 In most cases, both routes would be indicated by the SI, although if one route is above > 60mph, you might get away with it, but I think this is a modern thing rather than a long standing thing, so you might require two indications. Simon I don't know the current situation off-hand but when I was about your age the rule at least on the LMR was that Theatre Indicators were only to be used for routes up to 40MPH. If there was a situation where one had to be provided for instance into a terminating Bay Platform then only one route over 40MPH from the signal was permitted. This was not indicated, just a main aspect was given, but all other routes were to be indicated. On the “real” railway route indications are usually proven to be correctly displayed before the associated signal can show a proceed aspect. You would be very unlikely to get a yellow/green aspect with an unlit thatre or matrix indicator Tim T There were a few situations where no lamp,proving was provided on a Theatre Indicator when all routes were of the same speed or had less than 10MPH reduction and were of approximately the same length e.g. a terminal station with all of the stop blocks more or less in line, or a low speed through station with no bay platforms. It was pretty rare, I think I worked on a handful of places in nearly 40 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted December 2, 2017 Author Share Posted December 2, 2017 I built these from scratch many years back, the stencil indicators can show 4 different things. 24062007226.jpg Andi I like very much Andi, very nice! I don't know the current situation off-hand but when I was about your age the rule at least on the LMR was that Theatre Indicators were only to be used for routes up to 40MPH. If there was a situation where one had to be provided for instance into a terminating Bay Platform then only one route over 40MPH from the signal was permitted. This was not indicated, just a main aspect was given, but all other routes were to be indicated. The speed has been upped to 60mph, I presume as LED theatre's have better sighting on them nowadays. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2017 I don't know the current situation off-hand but when I was about your age the rule at least on the LMR was that Theatre Indicators were only to be used for routes up to 40MPH. If there was a situation where one had to be provided for instance into a terminating Bay Platform then only one route over 40MPH from the signal was permitted. This was not indicated, just a main aspect was given, but all other routes were to be indicated. It was still in the Signalling Principles in the early 1990s (not that I can find my copy at the moment, but we are talking 25 years ago). There was an example at Reading installed in the 1965 resignalling; R134 on the Down Relief approaching Reading station, no indication of route with the main aspect for the 'straight ahead' Down Relief route but an appropriate indication on the theatre indicator for the other six main aspect running routes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) It was still in the Signalling Principles in the early 1990s (not that I can find my copy at the moment, but we are talking 25 years ago). There was an example at Reading installed in the 1965 resignalling; R134 on the Down Relief approaching Reading station, no indication of route with the main aspect for the 'straight ahead' Down Relief route but an appropriate indication on the theatre indicator for the other six main aspect running routes. Leamington had one coming from Warwick which showed no indication for the Up Main, B for the Bay and P for the Up Platform. In this case it was essential to have lamp proving as the indicated routes were different in character and a corrupted B could look like a P.. Edited December 3, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 30, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2018 Has anyone got these DCC ones and installed them yet, and if so do they look massive? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 Has anyone got these DCC ones and installed them yet, and if so do they look massive? Whilst I haven't personally installed them, seeing the photo of them on the Hornby Magazine layout in their review., they do indeed look massive! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 55020 Posted February 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Whilst I haven't personally installed them, seeing the photo of them on the Hornby Magazine layout in their review., they do indeed look massive! Simon Yet the latest issue of BRM (page 98) states "The injection-molded signals are faultless in their dimensions". An interesting choice of words if they are that oversized! Edited February 1, 2018 by 55020 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Yet the latest issue of BRM (page 98) states "The injection-molded signals are faultless in their dimensions". An interesting choice of words if they are that oversized! I don't believe that they are faultless in their dimensions, the dimensions that DCC Concepts stated (as linked further up) prove the signals are at least twice the size they should be. When I next see Andy and Howard, I'll ask them about it Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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