DCC sound & controller type

[RateTheFreight]

Evening all,

 

I'm in the process of building a 4x1.5 OO gauge inglenook styled shunting layout (with a few more sidings to allow for more than one loco etc.

 

Having initially planned to do it in DC, I thought that he prospect of using DCC sound fitted locos could make a real difference to the feel and enjoyment of operation. I'm assuming at this point that DCC isn't limited to larger layouts than mine?

 

Being a complete DCC novice I wondered whether the type of controller you had impacted the functions such as sound within a loco? For instance, if I purchased a basic Bachmann or Hornsby dcc controller as supplied in their train sets, would I be able t access the sound functions of a sound fitted loco or would I need a more advanced and expensive controller?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Greg

[Pete the Elaner]

Evening all,

 

I'm in the process of building a 4x1.5 OO gauge inglenook styled shunting layout (with a few more sidings to allow for more than one loco etc.

 

Having initially planned to do it in DC, I thought that he prospect of using DCC sound fitted locos could make a real difference to the feel and enjoyment of operation. I'm assuming at this point that DCC isn't limited to larger layouts than mine?

 

Being a complete DCC novice I wondered whether the type of controller you had impacted the functions such as sound within a loco? For instance, if I purchased a basic Bachmann or Hornsby dcc controller as supplied in their train sets, would I be able t access the sound functions of a sound fitted loco or would I need a more advanced and expensive controller?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Greg

DCC is in no way limited to larger layouts. It sounds like you have never used it yet?

It allows you to drive the train, not the track. You don't have to do this, but I set acceleration/deceleration on all locos & units. Real trains can't stop suddenly so I don't want mine to either. You can also turn lights on/off independently & also, as you have inferred, sound. I quite like to have a loco ticking over, its spirax valves ticking away or being able to turn a compressor on/off.

You also get to choose exactly where you stop a loco without having to decide where to put isolating sections while building, then realise you could have done with a few more at a later date.

 

As for a cheaper controller: I started off with a Hornby Select. It took me about 3 minutes playing on a short single test track to decide that I liked the feel of running with DCC, then not much longer to decide this is very limiting & that I needed something better.

The Select can only cope with 2 digit loco addressing (1-40), which is not very helpful in identifying locos which have 4 or 5 digit running numbers. It also can't access some of the higher numbered functions & if you are using sound, you will very probably want to access these.

 

I can't comment on the Bachmann Dynamis because I have never used it.

[HLT 0109]

Greg,

 

There is a large choice of controllers and the best for you is the one you like using!  As Pete says, the Hornby select is very limiting and for me, the Elite is not user friendly.  I have used the original Dynamis but not he current version - it could be very good for a small layout rather than a larger one because of the need to have direct line of sight between the receiver and the wireless handset.  You also have the choice between a console type that needs table-top space and the hand-held type that don't.  Apart from the very basic controllers, they all do a similar job but vary in the way they do it.  it would be best, if you can, to visit a model shop (or a number of them) where you can try out different makes.

 

Harold.

[ELTEL]

I started out with a Gaugemaster Prodigy 1

 

however if I was staring out again I think it would be a NCE starter set which at around £150 is value for money.

 

If you could get the chance to try each manufacturer offerings. Gaugemaster, NCE, Lenz etc

 

I know Digitrains (Lincoln) offer this service but other specialist suppliers should be able to offer a choice to try

 

Digitrains will be at our exhibition in Stafford the first weekend in February and will a selection to try at the exhibition.

 

Further details of the exhibition www.staffordrailwaycircle.org.uk

 

Eltel

[RateTheFreight]

Thanks for the responses all; much to consider.

 

Am I right in thinking that the basic Hornby and Bachmann dcc controllers allow you to utilise the sound function of a sound fitted loco albeit less effectively than a more expensive one?

 

I'm slightly reluctant spending wIse given this will be my very first forray into DCC combined with the layout only being able to house 2-3 locos. I half considered going down the cheaper route whilst I get used To DCC and what it can do. That being said if I'm going to buy one or two sound fitted locos I'd want them to still make a sound!

 

Greg

[ELTEL]

One of the issues you may find is that the basic Hornby & Bachmann DCC systems have a limited number of function keys, and you may not be able to access all the sound files that the latest sound chips are capable of.

 

I really do think it would be wise to try a few of systems available before you purchase.

 

Eltel

[RAF96]

Hornby Select can access F0 to F28 once updated to firmware v1.5. Unfortunately this update is only by return to works. Still limited to loco addresses 0 to 59 and points must be in the range 61 to 99.

 

DCC is good for a shunting layout as you can have more than one loco in the works at the same time.

 

Rob

[John K]

In your position I would use a Sprog II connected to JMRI on a laptop as the Command station. I’d use smartphones as hand controllers - android phones using EngineDriver and iPhones using WiThrottle. This assumes the presence of a WiFi router in the building. You can also use throttle in the JMRI software. Cost £45 for the Sprog plus a power supply - say £15. JMRI is free.
John K

Edited to add the url for some Sprog info here: http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/about_sprogII.shtml

Edited December 5, 2017 by John K

[Alcanman]

I've been using a NCE Powercab on my small shunting layouts with dcc sound fitted locos for 7 years. Easy to use and easy to program decoders.

 

Mal

[chriswright03]

Any of the basic systems will be sufficient for your needs if you only want a 2 or 3 locos at any one time.  Most of the sounds are able to be operated by even the most basic DCC controllers.  Increasingly these days sound decoders offer ever more functions but without going into too much detail what you say is that you want basic without too much cost.  I have on trial at the moment the Bachmann Dynamis and it does all I need with a couple of sound locos.  I have previously used the NCE Powercab and it is good as well but offers very little more than a basic system to start with.

 

If in doubt get yourself into a model shop where they sell these systems or even look on Youtube at the various ones.  Simple works but be aware it is addictive and simple may not keep up with your ambitions once you start!

[pauliebanger]

Greg,

 

Maybe the Select is not the controller that many experienced DCC users would recommend, including me.

 

But let's be practical. You have the Select already, so it's a zero cost option for now. It will operate your locos. If you have the latest software installed, you will be able to use all 29 function keys, which, frankly, is more than can be said for the Dynamis with its 21 Function limit.

 

If you need more power (unlikely with what you describe) you can add a more powerful PSU. The Hornby Elite/Scalectrix PSU works a treat to boost power to 4A.

 

The Select is severely limited in some areas which many of us would feel are essential, but for basic control of locos and sound, it will do all you need.

 

When you become more familiar with DCC and what's possible to increase realism and enhance your enjoyment, that would be the time to list the Select's shortcomings from your point of view to help filter out the other unsuitable (for you) systems on the market, focusing on what you do need.

 

Remember this. NO system will tell you in so many words that it has hidden shortcomings which you will only discover when you have bought it. Thy don't lie, but you need to fully understand what is being described, whether something is a restriction or an asset and whether that matters to you for what you wish to achieve.

 

I echo those who recommend trying different systems when you come to the point where you wish to upgrade. You can get lots of (sometimes conflicting, rarely unbiased) advice on forums.

 

Be sceptical of dealers who recommend the system which is the only type they sell. It's possible that there advice may not be impartial or in your best interests. Try one of the truly specialist DCC suppliers, one whch has a wide range of systems which you can try out and who will give advice bassed upon your needs not the one which makes the most profit. There are several of these DCC specialists, some of whom also travel to railway modelling exhibitions.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[chriswright03]

Paul having posted above you and now read your post I agree with you in the main but cannot see where the OP says he has the Select.  Just read it again and he has no system as yet unless I have missed something.

[RAF96]

Paul having posted above you and now read your post I agree with you in the main but cannot see where the OP says he has the Select.  Just read it again and he has no system as yet unless I have missed something.

He asks the questions "If I had.....could I access...", hence the discussion progressed from there.

Rob

[chriswright03]

Yes I realise that Rob thanks but I didn't want anyone to assume (wrongly) that he has a system already as it would change the advice maybe. 

 

Same old story really the question has been asked so often which is best.  I researched it all again myself earlier this year when I was returning to the hobby after a break for a few years.  Having had an NCE last time and a Dynamis that I bought second hand I looked at what had changed in the intervening years.  Difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff really as a lot of the threads discussing systems are quite old now and the game has moved on considerably.

 

Truth is that one system may suit someone but not many others.  I have Dynamis Ultima on load to try and I am pleased with it 'for what I want' but realise that will not be the same for everyone.  My understanding is that Greg is at the very first step in DCC and has no knowledge at all so I just hope that we can help him without making it all sound too complicated.

[RateTheFreight]

Thanks all! It's does all sound somewhat complicated (well to me it does).

 

So far as I can glean from the helpful comments above and trawling YouTube, there are a number of compromises/issues with both the basic Hornby select, it not being NMRA compliant which as far as I can tell can lead to issues with non Hornby decoders (although confusingly not always) and the basic Bachmann EZ which has limited functionality but seems a solid starter option.

 

I did wonder whether the abundance of second hand Selects had been from those who had used it as an entry to DCC and then progressed from it. This may be a good start for me (either with Hornby or Bachmann) to see how I take to DCC and then as others have suggested progress onto something more sophisticated if needs suit.

 

In general I don't have a computer (work laptop suffices but can't download) software onto it, will this be a limiting factor in entering the world of DCC? Apologies if this has gone off topic slightly!

 

Greg

[melmerby]

Thanks all! It's does all sound somewhat complicated (well to me it does).

 

So far as I can glean from the helpful comments above and trawling YouTube, there are a number of compromises/issues with both the basic Hornby select, it not being NMRA compliant which as far as I can tell can lead to issues with non Hornby decoders (although confusingly not always) and the basic Bachmann EZ which has limited functionality but seems a solid starter option.

 

I did wonder whether the abundance of second hand Selects had been from those who had used it as an entry to DCC and then progressed from it. This may be a good start for me (either with Hornby or Bachmann) to see how I take to DCC and then as others have suggested progress onto something more sophisticated if needs suit.

 

In general I don't have a computer (work laptop suffices but can't download) software onto it, will this be a limiting factor in entering the world of DCC? Apologies if this has gone off topic slightly!

 

Greg

The abundance of Selects could be that buyers have bought a Hornby DCC set complete with a Select, to try DCC, using it as a one stop solution straight out of the box, then once on the way want something better

 

DCC supplies at Holt Heath near Droitwich also have a selection of controllers set up for customers to try.

Useful if you ever get that way, but you need a car to get there.

 

Keith

[ELTEL]

In your position I would use a Sprog II connected to JMRI on a laptop as the Command station. I’d use smartphones as hand controllers - android phones using EngineDriver and iPhones using WiThrottle. This assumes the presence of a WiFi router in the building. You can also use throttle in the JMRI software. Cost £45 for the Sprog plus a power supply - say £15. JMRI is free.

John K

Edited to add the url for some Sprog info here: http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/about_sprogII.shtml

I feel for a novice a bit over the top!

[chriswright03]

Greg you do not need a computer for DCC at all.  You can use one for route control and stuff but at your stage I wouldn't even go there! 

 

Running a loco on DCC is simplicity itself with any of the systems.  Controlling sounds or functions such as lights can be fairly simple if all you want is the basics.  As an example if you look at what sounds are on most locos then most of them can be used with the basic systems as well.  Pauliebanger has highlighted the fact that the Dynamis has only 21 functions and he is right but for me that is plenty.  It may also be enough for you as well as would the Select. 

 

Thing is it you are new at it and want to keep the cost down for a start then maybe even look at buying a second hand system from somewhere that you can test it and make sure it works.  There are plenty out there if only because a lot of people upgrade fairly quickly as I did many years ago.

 

I have a lot of time for Pauliebanger as he fitted sound decoders into my O gauge fleet some years ago before I left the hobby for a while.  He has an excellent knowledge and any advice given will be sound (excuse the pun).   He and many others on here will give you good advice.  I just think for the time being you will find a starter system sufficient to see if you want to progress or stay as you are.  Whichever you go for I can assure you it is not as difficult as it may seem and it is a lot of fun.

[ELTEL]

Greg

 

If you PM me I’m sure I can we can arrange unbiased demonstration of various dcc systems at our clubrooms.

 

Stafford Railway Circle

Clubrooms in Stone ST15

Eltel

[John K]

I feel for a novice a bit over the top!

I don't think you have enough data to assume that it's too complicated for the OP, and certainly not enough data to justify the use of an exclamation mark.

JMRI plus Sprog may be a step too far for you but it's an intuitive system for anybody who regularly uses a computer.

It's always good to offer new people a full range of options not just the ones we personally favour.

Best wishes,

John

[pauliebanger]

Duplicate posting deleted.

Edited December 5, 2017 by pauliebanger

[pauliebanger]

Paul having posted above you and now read your post I agree with you in the main but cannot see where the OP says he has the Select.  Just read it again and he has no system as yet unless I have missed something.

 

Chris,

 

I'm sorry, that's my fault. I did think that Greg already had a Select. I see that I was incorrect.

 

The basic thrust of what I said remains - get good advice based upon your specific needs - but modified in relation to the Select.

 

Knowing what I know now about DCC, I would not begin by purchasing a Hornby Select or Bachmann EZ Command which is even more restricted in its abilities, however tempting the price might seem.

 

Either of these systems can have a useful life for 'running trains', or for particular 'stripped down' purposes, especially if one owns or has ready access to more complete solutions. But there are important features missing which should be part of the basic system if you own or have access to only one.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[ELTEL]

I don't think you have enough data to assume that it's too complicated for the OP, and certainly not enough data to justify the use of an exclamation mark.

JMRI plus Sprog may be a step too far for you but it's an intuitive system for anybody who regularly uses a computer.

It's always good to offer new people a full range of options not just the ones we personally favour.

Best wishes,

John

I think you over complicated a simple request for advice on a suitable DCC system.

 

Subsequent postings have revealed Greg does not have a suitable computer.

 

Eltel

[Oldddudders]

I don't think you have enough data to assume that it's too complicated for the OP, and certainly not enough data to justify the use of an exclamation mark.

JMRI plus Sprog may be a step too far for you but it's an intuitive system for anybody who regularly uses a computer.

It's always good to offer new people a full range of options not just the ones we personally favour.

Best wishes,

John

 

Your suggestion is technically elegant and makes use of affordable components. But for a first DCC-foray on a small layout something requiring less setting-up would appear sensible. We don't all enjoy that sort of solution.

 

And we don't all push our own favourite system. I wouldn't dream of mentioning the DCC system I have used for 20 years as it is of no help to the OP.