North Eastern Railway Class E (later J71) liveries

[Skinnylinny]

Hi all,

I've been asked if I will paint and line a rather nice, 5" gauge model of a NER class E (later classified by the LNER as J71). The model is of NER number 399, and is unlikely to be steamed any time in the next several years, instead being used as a (rather large) kitchen sideboard ornament! The trouble I'm having is in figuring out how this locomotive would have been painted and lined. The owner has expressed that he would prefer it in NER livery, but would rather green than black. However, NER liveries seem to be a bit of a minefield! 

At first, I thought that the loco would have carried a livery similar to that later carried by the LNER J72s (ie: apple green all over, rectangular white-black-white lining on tank sides and bunker sides, with the tanks and cabsides bordered with thin black edged, lined with a single white line, and white-black-white lining on the boiler.) Something along these lines: 



However, the client sent me a photograph from a book, which shows a different lining style. However, the photo is in black and white, so obviously I have no colour information. It appears to show a darker colour used outside the lining on tanks and cabsides, with the lining appearing to be white-black-{some other colour} working from the inside to outside:

 

I've had suggestions that the outer colour might be dark green or red-brown?

Is anyone able to shed some light on plausible liveries? Ideally I'd like to work from a photograph of number 399 specifically, but failing that, suggestions of a plausible livery would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

 

Linny

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Skinnylinny

[Worsdell forever]

263 here is seen in the T W Worsdell livery, as it would have been as built, as you suggest the outside of the lining is a dull red, can't think what it's called at the moment, the later W Worsdell livery is very similar to the LNER style of lining.

[Skinnylinny]

Thanks for the quick reply, Worsdell Forever! (Very appropriate name for this thread!)

 

Sounds like a red oxide colour, maybe even bauxite?
 
The other question is what is the third colour in the lining? Is the tank-side lining red-black-white or some other combination of colours? (Alternatively, is it just black and white?)

Edited December 5, 2017 by Skinnylinny

[Worsdell forever]

The lining will be white and black with the red outside and green inside, boiler bands would be white-black-white. 

 

Aerolite is in W Worsdell livery and the red of the frames could be the same at the T W red. 

 

http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/yorkscenes/NRM2/P6217103.jpg

 

EDIT, the inner line on the W Worsdell panel lining was cream/primrose. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Worsdell forever

[Skinnylinny]

The lining will be white and black with the red outside and green inside, boiler bands would be white-black-white. 

 

Aerolite is in W Worsdell livery and the red of the frames could be the same at the T W red. 

 

http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/yorkscenes/NRM2/P6217103.jpg

 

EDIT, the inner line on the W Worsdell panel lining was cream/primrose. 

 

That's very helpful, thank you. Would inside-framed locomotives like the E have had those lovely maroon frames too? Or would we be looking at black (I'm assuming bright, bufferbeam red between the frames)? And would the sides of the running plate have been black or red?

 

Sorry to keep pestering, but trying to find a book from which to get a definitive answer is proving more difficult than I'd anticipated!

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Skinnylinny

[Bernard Lamb]

There is a set of books North Eastern Record published by the HMRS, volume 3 includes comprehensive coverage of the various NER painting schemes for locomotives. I suggest you try and get hold of a copy as it will explain many of the complex and confusing differences.

Bernard