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Steam double deck railmotor and other unsual early railmotors

steam railmotor 3D printing EST




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#1 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 20:12

I am always looking for unusual, interesting subjects for 3D printing. Although I am mainly working on British prototypes at the moment(I have so many I want to do), I like a change so wen David Thomas had his article about the little known French double deck steam railmotor I latest French Railways Society magazine, with drawings, I thought it should move from the 2D printed page into the 3D world. There are no known photos of the real unit, so apart from the drawings, which I gather were based on and sourced from old publications, much would be guesswork. I ad to estimate measurements from size of buffer beam. It looks about right.

The design is not that complex, and I have kept it basic, but managed to not only produce a design in my own preferred HO scale but also OO(it would not look out of place on the Wantage Tramway!), TT3(could do it in 1/120 as well),and N gauge, as well as an O gauge version and possibly even a Gauge One version. 

EST-Double-deck-steam-railcar-1a.jpg

I want to get one printed and finished in tie for the April get together in Derby at end of April(plenty of time), but wondering what colour it would be. A quick search on google did not help.

 

I am always on the look out for new subjects. I do plan to do some more metre gauge railcars, but would like to do some standard gauge ones as well. 


Edited by rue_d_etropal, 14 December 2017 - 11:21 .

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#2 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 13:44

just dug out previous copy of society magazine. Shows more detail in drawing, as well as some DD coaches. Same roof profile, so may do those as well. The ones that survived running in Paris till 50s has a slightly different roof profile, possibly could be done by smoothing off the other one. 


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#3 Andy Hayter

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 12:37

If you are looking for drawing of many of the voitures imperials then you need to get your hands on the Rail d'Autrefois 2013 Hors serie edition (no. 2)  which was dedicated to such coaches. 

 

You may need to join the Cercle to get a copy, but for pre-nationalisation information, pictures and drawings it is hard to better the value for money (25€ per year for 2 high quality magazines plus an Hors Serie.)



#4 Northroader

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 15:20

Your railmotor is one of two belonging to the ETAT, No’s.1 & 2 working at Saintes and Chartres in the 1880s. As such it should be in their colours, black for the engine portion with red lining out, and a bit of bright brasswork if you can find some. (Have a look at St, Jean d’Angely in the Cite de Train) The coach body is green, I think. I’m open to correction here, as the old lines were very fond of having different colours for different classes, but I think the Etat was green for every one, then again, there’s a Postes compartment, red or green? What shade of green? I always think SNCF olive, though likely, is terribly dowdy, and try to liven it up just a bit by using BR dmu green, yes, I know, totally shocking.
[/url]http://roland.arzul....es_vapeur.htm”]

Edited by Northroader, 12 December 2017 - 16:18 .

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#5 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 00:56

thanks for that. Green makes sense. That society looks interesting, I don't suppose the French Railways Society has links?



#6 Northroader

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:21

I’m not in the French Railways Society, so couldn’t say. If you’re a seeker after the truth on old coach colours, this is the thread, but I’m afraid it’s a bit six of one, and half a dozen of the other.http://forum.e-train...php?f=5&t=74579

#7 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:50

There is enough debate about correct colours for UK stock. Green does not change as much as red, but I tend to go for what looks like a well used shade. In reality every paint job would vary(DIY shops always say to buy paint from same batch to ensure consistent shade). For my 3D printed models I can use emulsion paint-pots, and for colours not available(dark green, I mix my own).


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#8 ejstubbs

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 13:22

Your railmotor is one of two belonging to the ETAT, No’s.1 & 2 working at Saintes and Chartres in the 1880s. As such it should be in their colours, black for the engine portion with red lining out, and a bit of bright brasswork if you can find some. (Have a look at St, Jean d’Angely in the Cite de Train) The coach body is green, I think. I’m open to correction here, as the old lines were very fond of having different colours for different classes, but I think the Etat was green for every one, then again, there’s a Postes compartment, red or green? What shade of green? I always think SNCF olive, though likely, is terribly dowdy, and try to liven it up just a bit by using BR dmu green, yes, I know, totally shocking.
[/url]http://roland.arzul....es_vapeur.htm”]

 

That link didn't work for me.  Try this: http://roland.arzul....ices_vapeur.htm


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#9 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 00:44

is there any more info on the Purrey Automotrice? It would make a nice model. 



#10 Andy Hayter

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:34

LSL made a kit back at the turn of the century.

Various articles on these at the following - the first three have drawings attached but without checking I cannot say whether these would be of sufficient quality to build a model.

 

Publication - year - month - page

 

RMF 2000 January 76

 

RMF 2001 March 10

 

Rails d'Autrefois 2011 November 33        

 

SNCFS Journal 2013 June 23

 

 


Edited by Andy Hayter, 14 December 2017 - 05:36 .


#11 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 11:14

there appear to be various versions. Found drawings of 2 different ones, both longer than the one in latest society magazine. They are articulated with a bogie/drive unit under the engine end. I also found a drawing of one sold to Portugal, which is only a 4 wheeler, and that looks closer. They all look interesting, and very tempting. 

The RMF issues for 2000-1 are not on the website I use a lot, but I usually find I can work from drawings as long as they either have some definitive reference point(eg buffers) , or some measurement, preferably both. Even with published scale drawings you have to be careful, and check, then check again.

 

Did find this in Loco Revuehttp://fr.1001mags.c...-texte-integral

and this, which also includes building the kit http://fr.1001mags.c...-texte-integral

 

Found this interesting one. Italian, but I think similar did run in France. http://www.forum-due...hp?f=21&t=47318


Edited by rue_d_etropal, 14 December 2017 - 11:58 .


#12 Northroader

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 21:30

The two in your diagram were Etat 0101-2, built 1904, body length given as 7.3metres, (where do you stop with the overhanging nose) over buffers 12.5m, ( something wrong with one of those?) The P.O. had one in 1902, AV1, and the PLM had VACF 1-2, 3-6, 11-12 in 1903-5. These were all short body types, but there were variations in body arrangements, windows, noses, and boiler/power units.01CC31FE-A381-49A5-98DE-CF924E307057.jpeg
Then there was a longer body version, P.O. AV2-11 in 1905, and PLM VACDF 23-35 in 1907, again a lot of variations in body and window arrangements.
228E4766-3F68-447C-A496-BC4DE8ABA13E.jpeg
I think the Nord had some, but damned if I can find it. Generally they look quite Modeller friendly, the underframe being fairly standard looking suspension, with no outside cylinders and tichy valve gear, but the long P.O. version had some terribly fiddly sort of railings on the roof. When you look at the Purrey setup, it’s very reminiscent of our Sentinel firm, who also worked on steam road vehicles and railmotors, but generally a bit later. Did they have a licence off Purrey?
One outcome of today’s research, I hadn’t realised Loco Revue have put their back issues on line. I used to have a sub. for that before the kids were born. They’re in their forties now, so Ive got some catching up to do. Ps just had another check on that, I think I’m wrong about that, pity.

Edited by Northroader, 14 December 2017 - 22:13 .

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#13 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 00:11

Not sure if Loco Revue have  put their back issues online. The online back issues website is I think an independent private concern. Looking at what they have online, I think they are scanning what they can find(nothing new for over a year for LR). I have paid for some downloads, not much, but for the articles I found recently I found the online images and drawings were big enough to work from. 


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#14 Andy Hayter

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:09

I wish they would then I might be able to fill the dozen or so gaps I have in the earliest editions.



#15 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 18:17

suppose it just depends on which magazines they can get hold of.



#16 Andy Hayter

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 18:50

You would think/hope that LR would have a complete run but maybe some early editions got lost in WW2.  Certainly they seem to be thin on the ground and the only time I saw them offered on Ebay, the auction was withdrawn before the closing date - private sale I assume.



#17 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 21:07

The 1001 website probablybuys up anything they have not got already. Notsure what the copyright situation is, but as I said nothing new for a year. The website has also crashed a couple of times, and I was thinking it might be closing at one point. It is not the first time the site has been quiet, and nothing new, then suddenly a new lotgets uploaded. Frustratingly it was not long after I had bought one of the LR specials(the one that is currently the latest issue).


Edited by rue_d_etropal, 18 December 2017 - 21:12 .


#18 JAMO

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 22:42

Have you tried that?

 

https://www.google.f...iw=1067&bih=515



#19 rue_d_etropal

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 10:29

Have you tried that?

 

https://www.google.f...iw=1067&bih=515

it's on my list. Two versions of the articulated version certainly, as I have found drawings.














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