Strictly Kadee (7mm scale)

[coachmann]

I wondered if anyone has fitted Kadee couplings to their 7mm scale British outline models?  I welcome experiences and images if possible. 

[MarshLane]

I've got some Kadee's fitted to some bogie bolsters.  I'll dig them out and pop some pics on for you.

[coachmann]

I've got some Kadee's fitted to some bogie bolsters.  I'll dig them out and pop some pics on for you.

Thanks. I had given up but I could not remove my question.

[brossard]

I have a couple of pairs.  I'm quite impressed, they have metal draft gearboxes and held together with screws.  Much more robust than the 4mm couplers.  I haven't fitted any yet, but my plan is to use them between Gresley coaches.  I'll mount them in the buffer beams to replicate the buckeyes that these were fitted with.

 

John

[coachmann]

I have a couple of pairs.  I'm quite impressed, they have metal draft gearboxes and held together with screws.  Much more robust than the 4mm couplers.  I haven't fitted any yet, but my plan is to use them between Gresley coaches.  I'll mount them in the buffer beams to replicate the buckeyes that these were fitted with.

 

John

I wonder if such a placement might place a restriction on the curves you use especially if the buffers are not sprung.

Edited December 14, 2017 by coachmann

[66C]

I wonder if such a placement might place a restriction on the curves you use especially if the buffers are not sprung.

 

Bear in mind that UK coaching stock fitted with buckeye couplers had the buffers retracted when the buckeys were in use.

 

Regards.

[Mike Bellamy]

.

I sometimes help Paul Martin with his EDM Models stand at shows and it's impossible to say which coupler will work without knowing the height it needs to be set at. I recall one customer at Kettering getting a bit irate as we wouldn't sell him anything as he hadn't a clue what he wanted. Paul stocks 9 different couplers for O Gauge and they are all different in length or height. You must first of all get a Height Gauge as it is essential that every vehicle is set to the same height and then choose the length of shank.

 

They are all illustrated here   http://www.ngtrains.com/Pages/Kadee2/K8.html   and Height Gauges here   http://www.ngtrains.com/Pages/Kadee2/K2.html

 

Hope that helps but sorry I have no personal experience of actually fitting them that I can share.

 

Mike

 

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[brossard]

I wonder if such a placement might place a restriction on the curves you use especially if the buffers are not sprung.

 

Other than the original Coopercraft wagon kits, I haven't yet met a 7mm vehicle that doesn't have sprung buffers.  Bill makes a good point about retracted buffers. 

 

John

[MarshLane]

Thanks. I had given up but I could not remove my question.

 

 

Hi,

Sorry had to dig two wagons out.  I've a rake of five that is fitted with Kadee's on the inners, and three link on the two outers - thereby I can run then within other Kadee fitted wagons, by coupling the two outers together, so the three-links are inside, and the Kadee's are on the outers, or vice versa.

 

As per Mike's comment - height is fairly critical, although as you'll see from this pair, they are not 100% spot on, but run and uncouple fine.  Sorry they are only iPhone picture, but should show what you want. If there's anything specific, let me know....

 

 

 

 

This is how they line-up and couple:

 

 

 

 

Then a couple of views, simulating them on a curve with the two sprung buffers really pushed together...

 

 

 

If you need anything else - shout. Hope that helps

Rich

[brossard]

First time I've seen Kadees on 7mm wagons Rich.  I used hundreds when I did 4mm.  Out of curiosity, do you use permanent magnets to uncouple?  I ask because those trip pins are really unsightly and could be cut off for improved overall appearance.

 

John

[coachmann]

Hi,

Sorry had to dig two wagons out.  I've a rake of five that is fitted with Kadee's on the inners, and three link on the two outers - thereby I can run then within other Kadee fitted wagons, by coupling the two outers together, so the three-links are inside, and the Kadee's are on the outers, or vice versa.

 

As per Mike's comment - height is fairly critical, although as you'll see from this pair, they are not 100% spot on, but run and uncouple fine.  Sorry they are only iPhone picture, but should show what you want. If there's anything specific, let me know....

Thanks Mike, your images are really useful.  I have been using Kadees with some success in 4mm and was curious to know if anyone was using them on British outline 7mm and exactly what they looked like. I have something to chew over now.

 

Someone mentioned retracted buffers, which of course I am well aware of in full-size practice. I wasn't aware people use them in 7mm scale.

 

The drop arms could have the appearance of a steam pipe with enough imagination. I for one wouldn't be removing them otherwise one looses an important reason for using Kadee couplings.

Edited December 14, 2017 by coachmann

[MarshLane]

First time I've seen Kadees on 7mm wagons Rich.  I used hundreds when I did 4mm.  Out of curiosity, do you use permanent magnets to uncouple?  I ask because those trip pins are really unsightly and could be cut off for improved overall appearance.

 

John

 

HI John

I've got a couple of electro magnets on the layout.  To be honest the drop arms (like most things) are a lot more visible in the photographs, than they are to the naked eye.  I never really notice them when operating.  But its one of those each to their own things I think.  Are there better visual couplings about? Yes.  Are they as easy or reliable, possibly!  Every automatic coupling I've come across has pros and cons, so at the end of the day, I've concluded its down to the individual to work out what he/she can live with to get the outcome they want.

 

Rich 

[MarshLane]

Thanks Mike, your images are really useful.  I have been using Kadees with some success in 4mm and was curious to know if anyone was using them on British outline 7mm and exactly what they looked like. I have something to chew over now.

 

Someone mentioned retracted buffers, which of course I am well aware of in full-size practice. I wasn't aware people use them in 7mm scale.

 

The drop arms could have the appearance of a steam pipe with enough imagination. I for one wouldn't be removing them otherwise one looses an important reason for using Kadee couplings.

 

Hi Larry,

Your welcome - if you've any queries shout.  I've never seen retracted buffers working in 7mm personally, but thats not to say there aren't any!  Mine are sprung, which works wonders on tight corners.   Purely my viewpoint, but I can live with the drop arm on the couplings to get the reliability.  Yes they are a bit more visual in the pictures, but only the same way as a picture will show glaring errors in scenery! For some reason, our eyes can tune out things when viewed first hand, but not when looking at a photograph.  Personally I think its to do with our human 3D vision and our brain understand whats important to us - on a flat image were depth of field cannot be measured, I don't think the brain can mentally tune things out.

 

Anyway, back on topic - if you need anything else, just let me know!  Im no master, and no expert, but I'll help if I can.

 

Rich

[brossard]

HI John

I've got a couple of electro magnets on the layout.  To be honest the drop arms (like most things) are a lot more visible in the photographs, than they are to the naked eye.  I never really notice them when operating.  But its one of those each to their own things I think.  Are there better visual couplings about? Yes.  Are they as easy or reliable, possibly!  Every automatic coupling I've come across has pros and cons, so at the end of the day, I've concluded its down to the individual to work out what he/she can live with to get the outcome they want.

 

Rich 

 

Yes Rich, trip pins are a bit of a bugbear for me and for 4mm I used a bamboo skewer for uncoupling.   On unfitted wagons I think they look very wrong but others have said Kadees are very wrong too (true).  Kadees are about the only auto coupler design I've come across that actually looks as though it belongs on a railway vehicle (just not British ones).

 

I'm still committed to 3/screw link for 7mm at this point but need to do some trials and make some coupling tools.

 

John

[MarshLane]

Yes Rich, trip pins are a bit of a bugbear for me and for 4mm I used a bamboo skewer for uncoupling.   On unfitted wagons I think they look very wrong but others have said Kadees are very wrong too (true).  Kadees are about the only auto coupler design I've come across that actually looks as though it belongs on a railway vehicle (just not British ones).

 

I'm still committed to 3/screw link for 7mm at this point but need to do some trials and make some coupling tools.

 

John

 

Hi John,

Yes, its all valid points.  I suspect they probably have more of a place in the middle of fixed sets, where they are less visible - but they are quick to install, easy to set up and they work which is the key thing!  But as we've both said what works for one, doesn't work for another!!!

 

Rich

[hartleymartin]

We have had this exact problem for several years in Australia. 7mm scale modellers of the NSWGR have debated at length on how to use Kadee couplings. This is due to the fact that the NSWGR originally used hook drawgear but slowly transitioned to buckeye couplings over a period of about 60 years, giving up the problem of "Poley up a hook." http://www.oocities.org/james_mcinerney2000/marshal.html

 

So, the NSWGR operated vehicles with hooks and buffers, knuckle couplers with buffers and bufferless vehicles with knuckle couplers. In fact, we also had the "transition link" which was a D-shackle with two chain links that would attach to bollards on top of the knuckle coupler:

 

 

(not my picture, from flickr: https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3655/3646492538_f3e4c46027_b.jpg)

 

The upshot of this is that it creates a serious problem for the prototype modeller, which perfectly emulates the same problem on the prototype. With a transition link (and they had to be carried in guards vans and kept in stock in shunting yards) a knuckle coupler can couple with hook drawgear ONLY IF both vehicles were fitted with buffers. Vehicles without buffers could couple to other knuckle-coupled vehicles (in Australia, we always seem refer to them as "auto-couplers" for some reason).

Part of the complication for Australian 7mm scale modellers is that the top of the knuckle should be in line with the centre-line of the buffers, which it turns out is exactly 3mm higher than the "standard" height for kadee couplers - this is because kadee O gauge were originally made for American 1/4" scale (1:48) and not 7mm (1:43.5).

 

For British modellers, I must recommend that you look at the long-shank versions of kadee couplers. You should use sprung buffers and there should be a small gap between the buffer faces when coupled - about 2mm seems to be idea. You must then also test vehicles around your sharpest curves to ensure that the buffer tension does not cause vehicles to derail. This seems to be a non-issue for curves about 5'0" and larger.

[coachmann]

I thought I should come in sooner or later to than everyone who responded to my opening post on 7mm Kadee's.

 

Due to several things outside the scope of a public forum, I am staying with the current 4mm scale layout. 

 

Larry G.