More Eurotunnel delays

[roythebus]

Maybe more of a question than a discussion, but I started a post on here a few years back about Eurotunnel delays but the search bar can't seem to find it. I know there's a few on here who work or have worked for Eurotunnel, maybe they have some answers to this.

 

This week (9th December 2017) we had a weekend in Europe, going by ET as usual. The weather in the Channel was bad causing ferry delays so as expected ET was busier than normal. going out on Saturday we suffered delays of over 2 hours which is just about tolerable but not acceptable.

 

We decided to cut our return short and return on Sunday evening from Calais. that wasn't a problem and we arrived at Calais terminal at 2000 for the 2050 train. The machine on the check-in said delays of 60 minutes. Hohum here we go again, but not too bad. When we arrived in the terminal building with no noticeable delays from the Border Farce people the car parks were overflowing, the terminal building overflowing, people everywhere.

 

the information screens inside the building showed our booked departure was to be at 2215. this later changed to an unspecified time, please wait. The queue for the information desk was lengthy, we waited for half an hour and it didn't move! There were heated conversations at that desk and tempers were raised.

 

Our departure was then shown as 2345, the last train of the day, so we got our car from the waste ground where we parked and went to the next stage holding area and lined up. The barriers opened in the next lane and let about 40 cars out, then closed, leaving another 3 lines of cars waiting, and waiting, and waiting. the 2345 went without us, maybe 80 cars and several hundred people. no information at all, nobody to ask for information, screens showing nothing except train future departure times. The board then told us were would be on the 0145. 

 

The same happened. The barrier on the next lane opened and leat about 20 cars out then closed. The 0145 went without us. By this time tempers were raised and a near riot happened by the barriers. Eventually ONE staff member came a long and could not give any information at all, we weren't offered any water, tea, coffee or food, despite by then having waited nearly 3 hours in our cars with information boards showing that we should have already gone! A couple more staff arrived and failed to provide any information except they would try to get us on the 0345! Some 8 hours after arriving at check-in!!

 

Excuses rolled out were: delays loading on the english side; air conditioning not working in certain wagons; they admitted one train only had 40 cars, another admitted they only had 60 cars on!! That is less than 50% capacity. As for aircon not working, that is complete and utter tosh (my word would not be accepted on here) as I've been on trains before where the aircon didn't work and whilst it was uncomfortably warm, it would have been preferable to waiting in a windswept car park in Calais!

 

The 0345 eventually left with us on it at 0402, a service which the supervisor told us was an additional train that they managed to find a path and a crew for. The staff did eventually dish out emergency food rations and made the drinks vending machine free, but that was only after we'd been waiting in the car park loading area for over 3 hours.

 

As a former BR driver I fail to see what could possibly force these trains to run at less than 50% capacity; lack of staff, physical defects in the wagons, loco failures not enabling them to take full power? Has anyone got a clue? I wrote a strongly worded complaint to ET as soon as I got home at 0530, contacted BBC Radio Kent and was not only on the radio but later visited by a BB film crew and had a clip on local TV news.

 

Radio news reports delays of 6 hours today as well. I can accept some delays due to cold weather, and ferries are suffering delays because of high winds, but wasn't ET designed to beat the weather delays? The service is a complete and utter shambles which makes Ryanair and Southern Railway start to look good! there are not enough staff members to deal with things and the lack of information or the means to find information is awful.

 

Any comments about delays or reasons for capacity problems??

[roythebus]

At least we had a brief appearance on BBC News south east on Monday. Fame at last, for all the wrong reasons.

 

Today's Eurotunnel excuses "power supply problems" caused by the storms. Delays now down to 6 hours, no further car bookings being accepted. what next?

[Foulounoux]

One thing to remember is that the usage of ET has changed

 

When we first used it 20 odd years ago it was mainly car traffic almost every platform was a car shuttle

 

Now it's trucks and vans

 

So it does seem that when they run into problems they will drop the car shuttles to ensure they get the revenue from freight

 

They will also run the trains emptyish if that allows them to regain the schedule and remember overnight they tend to work on the tunnel so sections are oou and capacity impacted

 

Some car rakes also seem to be suffering from age and sections are blocked off hence running at lower capacity

 

 

 

That said we are regular users and as long as we avoid peak times we have not had many delays

Worst was a bank holiday family BBQ near Calais. Rang my brother who hadn't left the event to say don't bother yet it took us 2 hrs to get through checkin and security

[roythebus]

Yes, I know usage has changed. On Friday afternoon I had to go to folkestone, about 15 minutes away, on the M20 at J11 and off at J12. Lorries for ET were queueing back to J11 waiting to get into the tunnel.

 

You're right, the stock must be life-expired by now, it is distinctly tatty, especially the on-board toilets that never seem to work. The "upgrade" was to cover the walls in vinyl wraps, not how to make them work! I'm also aware there's planned closures every night with one of the 6 tunnel sections being used for trains in both directions.

 

However, my view is that if the wagons are fit enough to drive cars over when they are stationary, they are fit enough to take cars when they're moving! I also understand schedules are tight. Staff numbers have been cut considerably, presumably by the previous management/owners to make the whole shebang more attractive to sell to whoever owns it now, and they are now suffering years of typical British neglect. We avoid peak times or obvious reasons, and having a frequent traveller ticket makes most trips "peak times" for us anyway. 

[jjb1970]

I've never used the shuttle service, only the Eurostar services. I've never been tempted to drive over. Do the shuttle trains take walk on passengers?

[Fat Controller]

I've never used the shuttle service, only the Eurostar services. I've never been tempted to drive over. Do the shuttle trains take walk on passengers?

I'm afraid not, though we did (and perhaps still do) convey cycles.

[Oldddudders]

When it is working well, the Shuttle is a peach. I haven’t used it often in recent years, but getting all the formalities sorted before you board, such that on arrival you drive straight off into the blue, is simply brill.

 

I am a regular Eurostar customer, having made at least 6 return trips this year. Again, when it works the experience is first rate.

[phil-b259]

 

However, my view is that if the wagons are fit enough to drive cars over when they are stationary, they are fit enough to take cars when they're moving! 

 

That rather ignores things like the fire suppression systems, fire doors and support jacks that get deployed at the terminals. If any of these are defective it doesn't matter how 'solid' the wagons may be to drive cars over!

 

As has been noted given the mileage covered so far and the rather hostile environment of the tunnel itself, its hardly a surprise that more and more car carrying wagons are experiencing faults, they are after all over 25 years old now.

[Vecchio]

Used the chunnel more than10 times, never a problem. Last time was this year in May. Excellent from a time point of view. I remember times when I was on the ferry, one hour loading, 45 min unloading, then a gale was blowing and we were not allowed to go into the harbour so we went in circles outside Dover. This was great fun for my stomach. Since the Eurotunnel is open I use it. My Austrian stomach is probably not built for ships. That I have married an English lady in 1987 didn't change that...

[kintbury jon]

It's worth sending your story as a complaint to customer service as I would imagine you would get a full refund. I received a full refund when I was delayed by 3 hours a couple of years ago.

[jim.snowdon]

That rather ignores things like the fire suppression systems, fire doors and support jacks that get deployed at the terminals. If any of these are defective it doesn't matter how 'solid' the wagons may be to drive cars over!

 

As has been noted given the mileage covered so far and the rather hostile environment of the tunnel itself, its hardly a surprise that more and more car carrying wagons are experiencing faults, they are after all over 25 years old now.

There was a time, when I was part of the team finalising the contract specifications and deciding who should get to build them, that it was jokingly thought that getting one of these trains to function would be a minor miracle given the number of interlocks and other functions that all had to work at the same time. That they do, and have been doing so for a quarter of a century in what is an unkind environment says a lot for both their designers and those who operate and maintain them.

 

Jim

[Fat Controller]

That rather ignores things like the fire suppression systems, fire doors and support jacks that get deployed at the terminals. If any of these are defective it doesn't matter how 'solid' the wagons may be to drive cars over!

 

As has been noted given the mileage covered so far and the rather hostile environment of the tunnel itself, its hardly a surprise that more and more car carrying wagons are experiencing faults, they are after all over 25 years old now.

Agreed; if certain on-board safety systems do not work, the train doesn't move. Sometimes, there are work-rounds, such as putting an additional crew member in a wagon with a defective video-monitoring system, but on busy days, 'spare' crew-members are hard to find. We are lucky in having some very hardy 'trouble-shooters', who can sort out many things at platform, but they can't do everything.

[duncan]

slightly off topic, but I have never used the tunnel & probably never will - why would I drive south of the Midlands when I can get a comfy ferry from Newcastle (or Hull)

 

 

ed - maybe should have clarified, it is 175 miles south to Newcastle

Edited December 17, 2017 by duncan

[phil-b259]

slightly off topic, but I have never used the tunnel & probably never will - why would I drive south of the Midlands when I can get a comfy ferry from Newcastle (or Hull)

 

Yes but thats being practical.

 

I know a couple of folk who won't use the Tunnel (fears of being 'trapped underground') it but are quite happy to jump into a tin can and fly several thousand feet above the earths surface...

 

Personally I'm the same as Vecchio and am not good with boats on anything but the calmest of seas. There is also the little matter of things like the disasters involving the 'Herald of Free Enterprise' and the 'Estonia' which show up the inherent physical flaw in all RO-RO ferries.

[Foulounoux]

slightly off topic, but I have never used the tunnel & probably never will - why would I drive south of the Midlands when I can get a comfy ferry from Newcastle (or Hull)

 

Force 8 and above is all I need to say :-)

 

 

We first used the tunnel when we got engaged in the Loire back in September 95 (had to think then)

We went back to same hotel in the following June for our honeymoon before going on the orient express the Thursday after our return

It was a force 7 on our return from the Loire and I rember saying to my wife I hope it calms down before Thursday

 

Of course it didn't and we endured a SeaCat roller coaster start to our Orient Express journey

 

I wrote to them expressing our disappointment that given the prolonged bad weather they had stuck to the SeaCat instead of availing themselves of the tunnel and to our surprise they agreed they had got it wrong and we were asked to join them on a trip in the September to test the tunnel. Classic how to turn a problem into a positive

 

We have used the tunnel ever since and what really nails it for us is how they manage pet travel

 

 

Twice we have had issues with paperwork due to vets errors and both times they have solved the problem for us. And managed to keep us calm

 

With a house in France we are probably approaching 50+ return trips

 

 

The car wagons need an upgrade but I guess they will wait until it's clear what arrangements are required post 2019 before making investment decisions as clearly the border arrangements may impact traffic levels and alter the financial calculations

[Foulounoux]

Oh and if in one of these insist on a lower deck... Limited clearance on the sump makes top deck a bit of a risk

 

The staff also tend to still start to say leave windows half open then realise maybe not necessary lol

[Mike Storey]

I have to say too, that I have used the Shuttle several times a year for many years, and have rarely experienced the kind of problem described. In fact, just once IIRC, in bad winter weather a couple of years ago, again due to power supply problems. This pales into insignificance compared to the major delays suffered on the road networks in the UK and also sometimes in France, as well as the ferries. I do not excuse the lack of customer service you experienced, whatsoever. They clearly need to improve upon that.

 

But what I have noticed in the last year or so, is that the prices seem to have reduced quite significantly (the non-refundable sort anyway), even at what one would presume were busy periods, and despite growing and record carryings, presumably in response to further ferry price cuts. This might explain any costs cutting.

 

They have just invested 40 million euros in three new lorry shuttle trains (over 100 new vehicles altogether, which are the first new rail vehicles since 1999). I recall they also acquired further locos for engineering trains and rescue work. They described this as the first in a new series of enhancements but have not yet declared anything else publicly. I know they did have to re-structure their debt late last year, which was not settled until earlier this summer, so perhaps that has delayed investment decisions too.

[APOLLO]

I've never used the tunnel, and probably never will as I have no reason to visit France (nothing against them mind !!). I have Family in Thailand that are half German and visit them occasionally when they are "home" - just outside Frankfurt. Living in Lancashire it's far easier and far less stressful for us to fly to Frankfurt & hire a car (brother in law gets me a cheap company rate !!). I just don't fancy the long drive down to Dover, faffing about on the M25 etc, then the long drive across France etc. I wouldn't mind the Chunnel trip, but it's just not worth the hassle. It's far different  if you live in the SE of England though.

 

I also have used the Hull - Rotterdam ferry years ago, and enjoyed that also, though it was a long hard drive to Berlin - just after the wall had come down, mind I was a lot younger back then, went with my mate in his Cavalier SRi - just the job on the Autobahns !!

 

Brit15

[jjb1970]

There is also the little matter of things like the disasters involving the 'Herald of Free Enterprise' and the 'Estonia' which show up the inherent physical flaw in all RO-RO ferries.

 

The damaged stability requirements for Ro-Ro vessels under SOLAS are completely different to those which were applicable to the Herald of Free Enterprise and Estonia. The safety requirements for ferries within the scope of SOLAS are now very robust. There is still a problem with ferries outside the scope of SOLAS flagged to countries whose domestic requirements are not as tight. The ISM Code was also introduced to address management and operational failings identified in the Herald disaster.

[APOLLO]

I googled SOLAS (Safety Of Life At Sea) and found this interesting document on RO RO safety

 

http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/Safety/Regulations/Documents/RORO.pdf

 

Brit15

[cheesysmith]

I`m suprised DBS haven`t taken some mk3s, fitted them with needed fire protection equiptment, and some GUVs also fitted and run a motor rail service from the london/m25 area to france using some of the freight paths they have.

[JeffP]

We, too, have property in France, the Limousin, about 800km from Calais.

 

I have used the tunnel, but it's usually twice the price of the ferries, and, living 400km from Dover, I do appreciate a bit of a rest, enforced though it may be, after battling the M25 and the hated Dartford Crossing.

 

Our main gripe with the tunnel has been the awful queues to get from the terminal building to the trains at peak times. It often means that you are called for your train, but can't make it and end up about 90 minutes late. yet the staff WILL NOT allow you to join the queue before your train has been called. Awful.

[Fat Controller]

I`m suprised DBS haven`t taken some mk3s, fitted them with needed fire protection equiptment, and some GUVs also fitted and run a motor rail service from the london/m25 area to france using some of the freight paths they have.

You wouldn't want to pay the prices they'd charge- the only way you could carry enough cars to be relatively economic would be to have double-deck wagons, but then you come up against loading-gauge constraints, meaning you could have the seemingly regulation two bikes on the back, and the 'granny box' on the roof.

[Fat Controller]

We, too, have property in France, the Limousin, about 800km from Calais.

 

I have used the tunnel, but it's usually twice the price of the ferries, and, living 400km from Dover, I do appreciate a bit of a rest, enforced though it may be, after battling the M25 and the hated Dartford Crossing.

 

Our main gripe with the tunnel has been the awful queues to get from the terminal building to the trains at peak times. It often means that you are called for your train, but can't make it and end up about 90 minutes late. yet the staff WILL NOT allow you to join the queue before your train has been called. Awful.

On the French side, the Frontier Controls are now before the Passenger Terminal building- theoretically, there should be no further delays before boarding the trains. Unfortunately, I don't think there is sufficient space to do this in the UK unless major changes are made to the Toll areas (moving them towards the motorway, for example).

[Mike Storey]

We, too, have property in France, the Limousin, about 800km from Calais.

 

I have used the tunnel, but it's usually twice the price of the ferries, and, living 400km from Dover, I do appreciate a bit of a rest, enforced though it may be, after battling the M25 and the hated Dartford Crossing.

 

Our main gripe with the tunnel has been the awful queues to get from the terminal building to the trains at peak times. It often means that you are called for your train, but can't make it and end up about 90 minutes late. yet the staff WILL NOT allow you to join the queue before your train has been called. Awful.

 

They are in the middle of major expansion work on the queuing lanes and access roads to them, at Cheriton, having vastly improved the check-in approaches now, so perhaps this will not be the problem it has on occasion. On some of our journeys in the past I too have experienced the same problem, although I have missed my planned shuttle time only once. Actually, it has been a lot better this year (despite the ongoing works) as you used to be called forward around 45 mins before the shuttle time, and then sit for ages in your car, until the barrier opens, instead of in a nice warm cafe. Now they call you at about 30 mins, and often we have barely stopped before the barrier opens and we have gone straight on to the shuttle.

 

It is certainly vastly superior to the madhouse of queuing up to check in at Dover Eastern Docks (and Calais) at peak times, and then sitting in the middle of (what seems like) the world's largest lorry park, wondering when you will get onto a ship. The only reason I would ever use the ferry again is cost, and as the advance booking fares on the Shuttle have become so reasonable now, that does not look likely for some time. I would never use the ferry in winter anyway given the apparently increased frequency and strength of winds in the Channel.